[closed] Major Changes to posting in this forum

Rescued One · May 1, 2015

Ran77 said:
And since the trinity view involves Jesus being God the Father, then it means that God lived on this Earth, just like man.

Trinitarians have NEVER taught that the Father is the Son.

Edial · May 1, 2015

Phoebe Ann said:
Trinitarians have NEVER taught that the Father is the Son.

I missed that one. Thanks.

Edial · May 1, 2015

This thread would be reopened tomorrow morning Eastern Time.
Thank you.

Edial · May 2, 2015

Edial said:
This thread would be reopened tomorrow morning Eastern Time.
Thank you.

Thread is open.

He is Risen 72 · May 2, 2015

What will happen to all the threads started by Jehovah’s Witness and Mormons now that they can’t reply or post here? Will they be closed or moved?

Theway · May 2, 2015

Phoebe Ann said:
Trinitarians have NEVER taught that the Father is the Son.

Yes you guys do... Did you not just say that Christains believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are ONE in substance and essence?
That is the paradox of The Trinity understanding by modern Christians, and the reason Christian Theologians have given up trying to rectify the contradiction by declaring it a mystery.
Because if true, that means that if God the Son has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bones... Then the Father "being ONE" in essence and substance must also possess the same Body of Flesh and Bones.

Just because you'll never admit that, does not solve your contradiction.

Ran77 · May 2, 2015

Theway said:
Yes you guys do... Did you not just say that Christains believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are ONE in substance and essence?
That is the paradox of The Trinity understanding by modern Christians, and the reason Christian Theologians have given up trying to rectify the contradiction by declaring it a mystery.
Because if true, that means that if God the Son has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bones... Then the Father "being ONE" in essence and substance must also possess the same Body of Flesh and Bones.

Just because you'll never admit that, does not solve your contradiction.

You beat me to it.

He is Risen 72 · May 2, 2015

Meanwhile, back on Kolob…

Ran77 · May 2, 2015

Edial said:
I gave the quote of your leader where he plainly states God Himself, prior to incarnation was a man like you and I.
We cannot accept this as Christian.

And I have explained that quote, in context. Of course, I have no control over how others choose to interpret our beliefs, but it still doesn't represent what we actually believe. Which means this action is not based on how we understand this quote, but on how you choose to apply it to us.

Edial · May 2, 2015

He is Risen 72 said:
What will happen to all the threads started by Jehovahs Witness and Mormons now that they cant reply or post here? Will they be closed or moved?

They would be moved probably tomorrow.

Edial · May 2, 2015

Ran77 said:
And I have explained that quote, in context. Of course, I have no control over how others choose to interpret our beliefs, but it still doesn't represent what we actually believe. Which means this action is not based on how we understand this quote, but on how you choose to apply it to us.

You might have a different understanding of the quote, however we need to go by what Joseph Smith and many other LDS leaders plainly stated.
BTW, this view is not CF's only. It is held by all major branches of Christianity that such teachings are cultic and un-Christian.

Edial · May 2, 2015

Theway said:
Yes you guys do... Did you not just say that Christains believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are ONE in substance and essence?
That is the paradox of The Trinity understanding by modern Christians, and the reason Christian Theologians have given up trying to rectify the contradiction by declaring it a mystery.
...

Not at all.
Every creature represents a type of trinity. Body, spirit and mind.
Separate yet one. Trinity in nature is one of the most common designs of life.

Edial · May 2, 2015

I need to close it up for few hours.
Thanks.

Edial · May 2, 2015

Edial said:
I need to close it up for few hours.
Thanks.

Open.

A New Dawn · May 2, 2015

So, Ed, the new owner is interested in making judgments regarding the hearts of the unorthodox Christians? I ask because this is a whole new way of structuring the board that we have never utilized in the past. In the past, while the unorthodox were relegated to Unorthodox Theology, their claimed relationship with Christ was never questioned. One could refer to themselves as Christian if they believed that they had a relationship with Christ. Now, the staff is saying that they can't call themselves Christian based on their theology rather than their heart condition. Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity? That Christ doesn't save based on theology? After all, didn't Christ save us while we were yet sinners? It seems to me that the staff/owner is going someplace they shouldn't be going.

I'm wondering if forced icon changes are not far behind.

mmksparbud · May 2, 2015

Theway said:
Yes you guys do... Did you not just say that Christains believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are ONE in substance and essence?
That is the paradox of The Trinity understanding by modern Christians, and the reason Christian Theologians have given up trying to rectify the contradiction by declaring it a mystery.
Because if true, that means that if God the Son has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bones... Then the Father "being ONE" in essence and substance must also possess the same Body of Flesh and Bones.

Just because you'll never admit that, does not solve your contradiction.

There is no contradiction--Christ, in Mary's womb, was no longer spirit as His Father, but flesh and bone, as us. And He keeps that humanity throughout eternity, though He is also still divine. He proved that when He asked to eat fish

(Luk 24:39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Theway · May 2, 2015

Edial said:
Not at all.
Every creature represents a type of trinity. Body, spirit and mind.
Separate yet one. Trinity in nature is one of the most common designs of life.

Yeah... Just like I said...
If you believe The Son has a body spirit and mind, then The Father must share that same body, spirit and mind, otherwise you have separated their essence and substance..
It's just like you said.... We need to go by what you, and many other modern Trinity Christian leaders have plainy stated.

Theway · May 2, 2015

mmksparbud said:
There is no contradiction--Christ, in Mary's womb, was no longer spirit as His Father, but flesh and bone, as us. And He keeps that humanity throughout eternity, though He is also still divine. He proved that when He asked to eat fishe Father

(Luk 24:39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I have no clue what you are attempting to explain.
Are you trying to say that only the Son has a body of flesh and bones, but not The Father??? Hardly sounds like they're one in substance does it?

mmksparbud · May 2, 2015

Theway said:
I have no clue what you are attempting to explain.
Are you trying to say that only the Son has a body of flesh and bones, but not The Father??? Hardly sounds like they're one in substance does it?

Not since Christ became a babe in the womb. Jesus kept some of His divinity, but God never had a humanity. They WERE one in composition, whatever that was, but Christ was made fully human through the Holy Spirit---God never was human. They are one in spirit, in character since He was made a baby human in the womb. How---that'll be one of my first questions to them.

skylark1 · May 2, 2015

A New Dawn said:
So, Ed, the new owner is interested in making judgments regarding the hearts of the unorthodox Christians? I ask because this is a whole new way of structuring the board that we have never utilized in the past. In the past, while the unorthodox were relegated to Unorthodox Theology, their claimed relationship with Christ was never questioned. One could refer to themselves as Christian if they believed that they had a relationship with Christ. Now, the staff is saying that they can't call themselves Christian based on their theology rather than their heart condition. Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity? That Christ doesn't save based on theology? After all, didn't Christ save us while we were yet sinners? It seems to me that the staff/owner is going someplace they shouldn't be going.

I'm wondering if forced icon changes are not far behind.

I wanted to say something similar to this. In all of the time that I have been at CF, people who consider themselves Christian were allowed to do so (although usually qualified by unorthodox).

I agree with Dawn that Christ saves us based on our heart, not based on if we have the correct theology. It is by grace that we are save, through faith.

Ephesians 2 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsit is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are Gods handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I would like to know where in the New Testament it states that if one does not believe Jesus has always been God, then he is not a Christian or that he is not saved. (I happen to believe this, but this is not about me) While I do not know much about JW beliefs, I know that LDS believe that Jesus was God (or a God) before the creation of our universe, and that He was Jehovah the God of the Old Testament.

But that is all really besides the point. Telling a group of people who believe that Jesus is their Savior and their Redeemer, who consider themselves to be Christian, that they are non-Christians ... I don't think that I want to go there. Discuss differences in theology is another matter than telling others that they are not Christians.

[closed] Major Changes to posting in this forum

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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