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Climate Denialism paid by Exxon

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by eclipsenow, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

    +13,597
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    When did that happen?

    How would you know? From your "contributions" to this thread so far, I'd say you don't know enough about the topic to form an opinion.
     
  2. lemur

    lemur Newbie

    475
    +14
    Atheist
    The discussion in the future:
    _____________
    questftbest: Moves by referencing 'Climate Gate' or some other PRATT(s)
    USincognito: Dismantles PRATT(s)
    Crowd A: Either repeat some or all of USincognito's arguments and insert their own points in whatever points were missed in the first counter argument.
    Crowd B: Quotes the previous crowd and repeats other PRATTs

    For the next 10 pages, group A quotes group B, and vise versa.

    2 weeks latter, or maybe even sooner (a given if you count the other Society forums), the process repeats itself with the exact same people.
     
  3. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

    +997
    Australia
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    Married
    Don't be deliberately obtuse and demean yourself even further. You know what a 'Denialist' is and you're just sulking that the scientific reality doesn't agree with your politics. So I'll just ignore your quibbling over words, your sulking. Denialist suits you perfectly and you know it.

    But in the meantime...

    How are you going to save America $600 billion a year, get heaps of jobs back, and get your economy going? I've got a plan to do this that ALSO saves the climate; what's your big idea for helping America? ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

    +997
    Australia
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    Married
    A Gawron
    What's wrong with that? You're a Christian, right? Ever read "Give to Caesar what is due to Caesar" and especially Romans 13, where the authorities are God's servants to do us good? And that's Paul describing the ROMAN authorities. Today we have accountability systems through both our politics and science; we should be amazed and grateful that we live under modern democratic systems with modern science and medicine, and not stuck back under Roman authorities. Yet the bible says even they were God's servants for their good! Can ya dig it?

    Now here's a more personal story. I'm not a scientist, and I'm definitely not a climatologist.

    But I'll tell you one thing I've noticed. Only the Denialist websites seem to try to straw-man the peer-reviewed science, bluff with bluster, misinterpret and sometimes even outright lie.

    For example, about 5 years ago I was a complete newcomer to this subject. Then I saw "The Great Global Warming Swindle" by Martin Durkin. It really threw me — as it has a lot of clever data and facts in it. I was on the brink of moral outrage, wondering how on earth the whole climate community could have lied to us so completely when these 'facts' were self-evidently against climate science!

    The whole thing was itself a Swindle. Durkin used clever half truths and lies. He covered probably a dozen of the top Denialist myths, and covered them well. Any half informed Denialist can pull the wool over an uninformed member of the public. It's easy. Most of us, sadly, just don't read that much. So that's what Durkin did. He lied. When I finally read the peer-reviewed responses to Durkin's claims, especially the responses of Sir John Houghton — himself an active and keen Christian and former head of the IPCC — I was TRULY outraged at Durkin's audacious lies. It amazes me that someone can behave like that. Can say the things he did about the entire climate community.

    Are you proud of being associated with him? Does intentionally lying about the actual claims of climate science sit well with your conscience when you pray? Or are you quoting things way outside your area of expertise in the vain and vague hope that they might be true, and might somehow disprove what every National Academy of Science on the planet says is a fact!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  5. EdwinWillers

    EdwinWillers Well-Known Member

    +2,847
    Niue
    Christian
    Married
    The topic of CO2 was strictly introductory - but further discussion is probably pointless.

    ...but who'da thunk it'd lead to a discussion about human physiology? Maybe we should move this thread over to Health & Fitness? There's probably a correlation between AGW and excess exercise too.
     
  6. Panzerkamfwagen

    Panzerkamfwagen Es braust unser Panzer im Sturmwind dahin.

    +21
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I don't see glow ball warming true believers lining up to stop emitting Co2.

    ^_^
     
  7. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

    +6,821
    Christian
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    CA-Greens
    and who'da thunk that a pretty straight forward analogy could be so easily lost?
     
  8. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

    +997
    Australia
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    I'm glad to see you've conceded that tiny amounts of something can have huge impacts. You've also admitted that discussing this with you was pointless. Well, we knew that all along. ;)
     
  9. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

    +997
    Australia
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    Married
    Eerrr, dude, you're not looking. Renewable energy is growing exponentially. Just look at this chart of wind power.

    [​IMG]

    Not only that, but GE has nearly commercialised the S-PRISM nuke that can burn nuclear waste and when deployed, could run the world for 500 years on the nuclear waste we've already got sitting around in cooling ponds. That would mean that instead of being a problem, nuclear waste was the solution! If it could run the global economy for 5 centuries, it would become a resource worth $30 trillion dollars! The S-PRISM is just one variety of Integral Fast Reactor that could run the world until the Lord returns (or for atheists, until the sun expands and burns this planet to a crisp). There's that much uranium on earth, and floating in our oceans, and the oceans are gradually topped up with uranium particles as continents move and new mountain ranges are eroded back into the oceans.

    Why on earth do global warming Denialist’s also deny any alternatives to fossil fuels? This view is ultimately worse than those of us who take global warming seriously, because at least we think that with strong action to get off fossil fuels, we can do something about it. Your view? We’re stuffed. It might not happen immediately, but you seem to think that there is no alternative to fossil fuels. Taken to the logical extremes that means that when we've burnt the last of the fossil fuels, Industrial Civilisation collapses. You've just condemned 6 billion people to starvation. Industrial Agriculture feeds 6 billion of us (and the other billion go pretty hungry — we're at 7 billion now remember?) But because there's no alternative to fossil fuels, it’s all going down. Big time. Want to modify your previous statement?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  10. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member

    +177
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    I don't believe in chance, nor do I believe anthropogenic global climate change.
     
  11. Saving Hawaii

    Saving Hawaii Well-Known Member

    +262
    Christian
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Is your nickname "Two Face"?
     
  12. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

    +997
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I'm glad you've at least conceded by your silence on the issue that the Bush regime changed the language from global warming to 'climate change.'

    I'm sad that you appear to be letting the Christian faith down by just going along with the nuts. You don't believe in chance? I guess that means you don't believe in evolution, and so have placed a wedge between your 'faith' and science that is so wide slipping in a little global warming denialism is nothing.

    What an intellectually bankrupt position.

    I'm a Christian AND I accept evolution (without believing it was all through 'chance'). Evolution is simply the means by which God made life on earth. I also accept climate change. So where do we go from here? That is, you just state your Denialist 'beliefs' without even attempting to justify why. I at least have the whole of the scientific enterprise on my side. (Even though I'm not claiming to be a scientist).
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  13. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member

    +177
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    The exact opposite of God is not the devil, because the devil actually exists.
    He has actuality and existence with God.
    the exact opposite of God is that which does not actually exist,
    and "chance" fits the bill.
    Macro-evolution is premised on the spontaneous increase of complexity and available information.
    Absolutely every material process observable operates in exactly the opposite way.

    "Global warming" is calibrated based on the assumption that material processes operate in a way not observable.

    The "science" of today is, in many ways, as futile as it has been since those state of the art Egyptian resurrection machines.

    As to climate, (please forgive my spelling) Bijorn Lormborg seems to me to have the best perspective.
    I recommend that you read his book "The Skeptical Environmentalist".
     
  14. lordbt

    lordbt $

    +934
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Here is my take on global warming, FWIW. Is the climate changing? Sure, it is always changing and would be changing if man were not even around. Is the change we are seeing caused by man? I am not a scientist, so I have no idea. But I do not rule out the possibility that the activities of 6 billion people may have an impact. For me, the question is: Does the state have the authority to to limit, regulate or alter my behavior to address the "problem?" The answer to that is no.

    Those of you convinced that humans are having a negative impact on the climate are free to alter your own personal behavior as you see fit. You have no authority to compel me to alter mine; and, by extension, neither does the state on your behalf.
     
  15. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Wanderer

    +2,536
    Atheist
    Private
    The answer (for you) may be a resounding 'no', but the obvious question is 'why not?'
     
  16. Gawron

    Gawron Well-Known Member

    +341
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    Married
    Because we are not willing to live in a totalitarian state based simply on the word of a few scientist who are becoming rich off of promoting AGW.
     
  17. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

    +6,334
    Atheist
    Thank you, lordbt, for stating your position so clearly. Your freedom trumps the good of the community each and every time. If the actions of a person or person is a detriment to the world around them, it is only up to the individual to determine if they should continue that action.

    Clearly, you should also support the removal of laws against murder, as that behavior - which has an detrimental impact to those around them - should be up to the individual to decide. Does the state have the authority to limit or regulate my behavior to address the problem? That answer, if you remain logically consistent, is not.
     
  18. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

    +3,220
    Deist
    US-Libertarian
    Wouldn't it be great to be the person who gets to define what 'detrimental' means?

    Think of the POWER!
     
  19. Gawron

    Gawron Well-Known Member

    +341
    Christian
    Married
    What is wrong with relinquishing increasing portions of our income and increasing portions of our freedom in a quest to save the planet from the effects of a gas we discharge every time we breath? With all due respect, if you have to ask that question, you probably won't understand the answer.

    "Render unto Caesar” was not a command from Jesus to pay whatever taxes a government body saw fit to levy. Jesus was being asked if it was lawful to pay taxes, with the specific tax in question being the annual tribute tax to Rome. Jews who opposed Roman authority opposed this tax while Jews within the Temple authority endorsed it. The question was an attempt to trick Jesus into choosing sides. In addition, for your comment to be true one would have to completely disregard what type of government may exist. Republic, Communists Dictatorship, Fascist state, Apartheid, whatever, just shut up and pay.

    As for "the authorities" being "God's servants to do us good", you may want to remember Ephesians 6:12.
     
  20. Gawron

    Gawron Well-Known Member

    +341
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    The laws against murder have little to do with the laws enacted in attempts to prevent someone from having the ability to murder. Every gun control law which has come along has done absolutely nothing to prevent one person from killing another if one person decides to kill another. But the aim of gun control laws has little to do with trying to prevent murder, but rather everything to do with limiting the freedom of the law abiding American citizen from owning a gun.
     
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