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Featured Church discipline against me. is this a Right? Letter from church attached.

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Spiccoli, Jul 13, 2019 at 10:39 PM.

  1. Spiccoli

    Spiccoli New Member

    10
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    Married
    My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below. 30CC2CEE-7CD0-4AA4-8587-20A468321821.jpeg Thank you
     
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  2. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +6,704
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Think they went overboard there.

    M-Bob
     
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  3. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    812
    +186
    United States
    Christian
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    Hmmm...
    If your wife needed to go to the ministry, and they were already aware of ongoing money problems, I must ask...why does your wife feel she needs help to get you earning some dough?
     
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  4. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

    +2,833
    Christian
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    Weird church. If your wife doesn't mind working and you are working. I don't see what the big deal is. I really don't know too many churches that care about "The husband should work, not the wife". I'd tell them God judges, not them. To say you are an unbeliever means they know your heart and if this is how they act, this is how God will judge them. Also in case they say this is correction/reproof, it is not going by how they worded it.
     
  5. nanookadenord

    nanookadenord Well-Known Member

    697
    +383
    Episcopalian
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    I know what my response would be, but the calmer version of me would just leave that church and never look back.

    I would also have to have a serious talk with your wife if I was you. Find out if some other wife planted this in her head or if this is how she really feels.
     
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  6. Citanul

    Citanul Well, when exactly do you mean?

    +2,130
    South Africa
    Methodist
    Single
    That would be my cue to find a different church. As long as your family's bring provided for it's absolutely none of their business whether you work or not and they're overreaching with their authority there.

    But that's not as big a problem as this having come about because your wife bought it to their attention. Unless it was as a result of something she mention in passing, this could be an indication of serious problems with your marriage.
     
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  7. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

    +1,306
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Interesting, being part of the congregation is not idleness. Idleness is not progressing with the Lord as far as I understand it. Which is what 2 Thessalonians 3:1-6 is describing. What's it to your church if you have family paying your bills? Shouldn't be a problem.

    I had a similar problem with the LDS church when I had a surgery that went bad and got put on pain meds for a year. I got super tired, almost died from low testosterone, and I have schizophrenia and became disabled. The church wouldn't help, this after I donated over $25,000 over 10 years. My wife then took counsel with the church in secret then divorced me. The church basically told me I was being a dead beat. My family was helping me out too. But the wife didn't like it and got ashamed of me.

    I hope your situation doesn't get as bad as mine was, but it's clearly heading down a strange path with your church. In the end I switched churches. I can't suggest that for you, but I certainly don't like your church interfering in your marriage. Prayers for you then.
     
  8. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

    621
    +534
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    Non-Denom
    Married
    As a pastor myself I do not say this lightly: That letter is awful. Much of it is unbiblical. I'm certain you have things you can work on in your life, but, I would never dream of doing something like that.

    No matter what anyone might say, the decision of what to do next is up to you and your wife. But I will say this, if you decide to walk away completely and never look back I wouldn't blame you nor consider that a mistake.

    Note: if you do decide to walk away, judging from this letter, THEY will likely not take it well and perhaps even shun you and talk bad about you. So, if that is your choice, be prepared.

    I'm sorry this happened to you.
     
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  9. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +11,846
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I think you need marriage counselling and a new church.
     
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  10. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +4,873
    Non-Denom
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    US-Republican
    Can you please describe your job?
     
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  11. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +1,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    well ... evidentially your wife has a problem with it ... so you should iron it out with her .... and this should have been done before she went to the church. Did she talk to you about it before she went to the pastors? if so ... what issues did she bring up?
     
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  12. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

    +7,854
    United States
    Protestant
    Widowed
    You haven't told us why you don't have a full time job.

    2 Thessalonians 3:10
    For even when we were with you
    At Thessalonica in person, and first preached the Gospel to them,

    the Ethiopic version reads in the singular number, "when I was with you, I commanded you"; using the above words, which were a sort of a proverb with the Jews, and is frequently used by them, (lyka al yad) , or (oygn al yel) , "that if a man would not work, he should not eat" {q}. And again F18,

    ``he that labours on the evening of the sabbath (or on weekdays), he shall eat on the sabbath day; and he who does not labour on the evening of the sabbath, from whence shall he eat (or what right and authority has he to eat) on the sabbath day?''

    Not he that could not work through weakness, bodily diseases, or old age, the necessities of such are to be distributed to, and they are to be taken care of, and provided with the necessaries of life by the officers of the church; but those that can work, and will not, ought to starve, for any assistance that should be given them by the members of the church, or the officers of it.
    2 Thessalonians 3:10 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

    I think some situations such as agoraphobia, depression, illness, etc. should be addressed. But your church might be judging too harshly. We haven't been there listening to conversations you've had.
     
  13. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

    78
    +56
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    What a difficult situation for you. Have you and your wife discussed this? Have you sought to understand why she felt the need to take this matter to the Church? What are the circumstances preventing you from working a full time job? How many hours is she working? Is there childcare needed and who is providing that? How many hours does she work around the home compared to you? What would be the basis of what seems to be her concern that you aren't an equal contributor to the needs of the home and family? It's a strong accusation that you aren't pulling your share. So are you really pulling your share, or are you somehow fooling yourself? If you are pulling the appropriate share, where did this concern come from?

    I have seen in several situations that women work really hard both at their jobs and then come home to work in the home (cooking, cleaning, laundry) while the men don't readily pick up those chores. It would be my expectation that both of you are required to maintain the home tasks, but the one working the most hours or working the most strenuous job would logically would be the one to take on the smaller share if that's what is needed in balance.

    There are times when what would seem to be apparent role reversals work, although until men start having babies and nursing them, I tend to keep to the view that women get first dibs on being the homemaker because children need care. One of my relatives has a reversed situation where Dad stays home with the baby and is more attuned to what the child needs than Mother, but Mother has the decent-paying job. Dad ran a small home-based business and doesn't have much time during the business day, but as soon as Mom gets home, he hits the business and the outside chores, and she takes over the child care. They are in close agreement that this works for them. While it may not jive with my sense that this Mom really needs further protection while going through a pregnancy and now being a Mom, it ceases to be my business because they both work hard and they both are happy with the arrangement. The home is not divided.

    But I can point to many more situations with women growing increasingly bitter as they feel they are mothering their men, instead of being in a partnership because the men refuse to take on responsible for the daily chores of the house. I can see their point. That partnership between you two is vital. As soon as women hit the workforce, the balance of home chores had to shift to become a joint effort, or the woman is very easily overwhelmed. It's a very common problem these days. But surely you two have talked about this? The most important part is that you two are in agreement. It messes so much up in the safety of your family to not be aligned in your financial goals and feel safe that both of you share a vital interest in being responsible to the family.

    While the basic need to be responsible toward your family may be a church-manageable concern, I'm not sure we have a clear indication that the details of the role are a church decision, but in their letter, the church seems to indicate a concern that there is a general lack of responsibility on your part. Are you sure that there isn't support for their claim?

    It's always up to you how much you want to submit to the church, but they wrote their concerns clearly and I prefer to presume good intentions that their goal was to help you walk uprightly. If you examine your own heart and see evidence that what they say is not accurate, and if you and your wife are in agreement with the inaccuracies in their letter, it may be a good idea to present your facts to the writers to correct their error.

    None of us here really knows what is going on, so we can only respond based on what seems like a good or right answer. It's always possible that we just don't know the facts. But you asked and people answered. I keep getting a sense of concern when I think about your post. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I keep wondering how your wife feels about this. And I wonder what you feel about your wife. Do you love her as Christ loves His Bride, the Church? It would be good to just start asking honest, heart-searching questions. Thanks for trusting the group with your situation, and I hope you get a good outcome. I'd be interested to hear more how this works out for you, Spiccoli. Take care.
     
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  14. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

    265
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    What a ridiculous letter.
     
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  15. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    894
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    Someone once said to me that if anyone presumes to tell you how to run your family they are operating out of a cult spirit...

    Your first sentence is somewhat telling...

    "My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work....

    This would seem to indicate issues in the marriage that if addressed effectively would render deeper issues resolved and likely the one in focus would disappear.
     
  16. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

    +1,579
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Have you received financial assistance from the Church? If your arrangement was agreeable to both it’s unlikely she’d seek their input on the issue.

    If you’re caring for children or aging parents at home and work less to do so that’s understandable.

    But the tone of the letter and the specific issues raised gives the impression you have chosen to work less because she earns more. And she’s carrying the financial burden and that wasn’t your agreement.

    This isn’t the first time they’ve conversed. Or sought to address the matter either. I agree that counseling is needed. But it also appears there’s something amiss.

    It would seem this is an ongoing problem given the references. And they’ve raised concerns in the past that were ignored. Now the letter has come. They’ve taken the next step to correct the behavior.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 5:49 AM
  17. Joined2krist

    Joined2krist Well-Known Member

    612
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    Why don't you want to add to your income? if you have time on your hands and health to go with it, you should make good use of it by working. I'm single, I have stipends coming in every month if I chose not to work but I still work because of my mental, physical and emotional wellbeing, I think you should too especially if you have a family who could do with the extra income you'll make from additional work. God bless
     
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  18. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

    +1,579
    United States
    Non-Denom
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    In all fairness to the church, it isn’t odd to hear of a spouse who’s unwilling to work or consider it when finances require more hands. This is the second post on the subject this week.

    An honest laborer can account for his time and has no difficulty doing so. But a sluggard cannot and is guilty of sloth. Laziness is a sin.
     
  19. gospels

    gospels Member

    129
    +148
    India
    Christian
    Single
    This exact situation has happened in my very family and I’m in agreement with how the church has addressed this. I wish my church did something when I and my mom had to seek their help regarding my father’s frivolous attitude towards the family needs. My dad also does some work of few pennies and around the house but it hurts me and my mom to see a man live like this who is responsible to provide all needs for the family. By God’s grace, I’m able to pay bills and meet the needs but l lost heart to continue to support my dad due to his disobedience to take up and bear his own cross. I couldn’t bear this injustice my father was doing to my mom and me. I cried before God to resolve this but my dad continued to be frivolous. After much prayer and years of this, I finally told my dad that I’m not going to support him anymore. Instead of repenting and rectifying himself, he chose to leave the family.

    1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    Matt 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    @Spiccoli
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 12:42 PM
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  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +19,831
    Anglican
    Married
    There are so many mistakes in that letter that, if I were you, I would never have anything to do with that church again, not even to write back and straighten them out.

    It may be that this is the way the board deals with all its people, meaning that their approach to you was not personal or unique, but I would still take the opportunity to find a better church. This turn of events may be a blessing in disguise, in fact, if it puts you on that road. You will, however, have to work out things with your wife and her perception of things, so I agree with those here who have raised that point, too.
     
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