Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The early church was entirely pacific so much so that until around the 300s CE you could not become a church member if you were either a police man or soldier.
Look at intent. Why do you suppose that Yahshua told his disciples to procure weapons? (Against Roman law, might I add.)
I suppose that he told them to gather the most effective weapons readily available, to defend themselves. I don't believe that it was because that he had some exclusive affinity for swords.
The early church was entirely pacific so much so that until around the 300s CE you could not become a church member if you were either a police man or soldier.
I would agree with you in regards to a non-retaliation principle in general. Yet this does not speak to the immediate situation. I would like to clarify, is it okay to attack someone in the defence of another?
Or should we follow completely literally and as strictly as possible Jesus' command to turn the other cheek and let the person do their worst to us or others?
well...two things: 1) you really don't know any "folks like me" and 2) ignoring isn't refuting.I didn't tell you to do what I do.. I specifically said to do as you are convicted and that we will probably both be corrected when Yeshua returns. How you get that I want you to live like I do from ANYTHING I said is beyond me. But, this is normal from folks like you. I say, "obey" and you hear "unto salvation." Odd but it is what it is. No reason for us to continue discussing anything seeing you'll just add more words to my own thoughts.
Look at intent. Why do you suppose that Yahshua told his disciples to procure weapons? (Against Roman law, might I add.)
I suppose that he told them to gather the most effective weapons readily available, to defend themselves. I don't believe that it was because that he had some exclusive affinity for swords.
This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.
I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?
This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.
I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?
I think it is also important to this part of the discussion to look at how God Himself "protected" His children. In the OT the children of Israel were instructed to kill "innocent woman and children" because they would otherwise lead the children of Israel away from God and into their deaths. IOW"s it's a protection. Time and time again God is instrumental in protecting His children even at the cost of others death. Personally, I think that as long as we are seeking God and not some form of justice or protection we have the right and obligation to protect at least from the standpoint of scripture.Great reply Ken. I believe God placed in human creation the same sense of responsibility to protect his or her family as God did the animal world. And God places an even higher value on his human creation than animals. What happens when you get between a mother lion and her cubs. If not careful she will rip your face off and feed you to her kids. When similar situations of danger present themselves to the mother or father of small children I can almost guarantee those same natural instincts will well up within them as well. If Charles Manson or Freddie Kruegger shows up on your front porch and wants to rape and butcher your family, I can guarantee that inviting them in for a hot cup of cocoa, hold hands and sing a few rounds of Kum-by-aaaa will be the last thing on your mind as it should be.
We live in a world and age where increasingly two legged pure evil exists. It is one thing to offer a man your cloak or a can of gas if he wants to steal your lawn mower, but to allow your children to be eaten like sheep without challenge is being far less than responsible.
Scripture says that the man who does not take care of his own is less than the heathens.
I have heard this claim before but don't understand it...isn't the claim the same thing as saying those who have a cake sitting on the counter are much more likely to eat the cake than those that don't have cake in their homes? Seems like a meaningless claim to me.Everything I hear people who have guns for self defense in their home are more likely to shoot a member of the family or shoot themselves.
And it doesn't matter if your a Christian or not.
I kick box I'm happy with that, I used to own guns but never kept them loaded, as most people would for self defense.
This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.
I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?
I grew up in the country, and occasionally we had to shoot a animal for defense or even food, which isn't in fundamental principal different than using a bow and arrow, for hunting.
But, today, the U.S. is out of whack on guns.
These guns in the news are not hunting rifles or merely a self-defense handgun even...
but instead they are assault weapons designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly.
and yet my husband was just telling me that congress had an opportunity to pass a bill that would have made it harder for this guy to get a gun and instead they filibustered the bill....likewise, we put travel bans on to vet people that have come into the country illegally and get told how terrible that is...point being if it was just an argument about more regulations I don't think we would be having the same discussion. The battle seems to be over guns or no guns not regulations...if it was about regulations the government wouldn't be filibustering to stop common sense bills nor would we be crying in our cereal when calling for vetting from countries known for terrorism.Hmmmm...so that's (kind of) one out of 307 mass shootings this year?
Mass shootings in the U.S.: 307 mass shootings have occurred in 2017
So that excuses all the people killed because the NRA fights against every attempt to bring some kind of regulation on guns in America?
tulc(wonders if this would constitute an actual grasping at straws argument?)
Everything I hear people who have guns for self defense in their home are more likely to shoot a member of the family or shoot themselves.
And it doesn't matter if your a Christian or not.
I kick box I'm happy with that, I used to own guns but never kept them loaded, as most people would for self defense.
and yet my husband was just telling me that congress had an opportunity to pass a bill that would have made it harder for this guy to get a gun and instead they filibustered the bill....likewise, we put travel bans on to vet people that have come into the country illegally and get told how terrible that is...point being if it was just an argument about more regulations I don't think we would be having the same discussion. The battle seems to be over guns or no guns not regulations...if it was about regulations the government wouldn't be filibustering to stop common sense bills nor would we be crying in our cereal when calling for vetting from countries known for terrorism.
The government that governs OVER the people have assault rifles.
Do you know HOW governments CAN and DO oppress the people they govern?
It is by having more muscle then what the people have.
And to perpetuate their strong oppressive hold, they forbid the people to have what they have.
Having a defense mechanism is not always about using it, it is about having it, and your enemy, or oppressor, knowing you have it. Because with that knowledge, they then have to angel in risks they are willing to take TO oppress or otherwise intrude and attack.
It is the same Concept the US takes with foreign nations. You have this, hummm, we have something more powerful and more of them.
And it is the same Concept the left sitting in offices of authority project. The people are restricted, "they" can do whatever "they" want, in or outside of the Constitution, cuz who's going to stop "them"? ("they" have armed guards!, tanks, an entire military, just like the kings of the old days).
A historical and well known issue, and WHY the founders of the US, put no restriction on the people to own defense mechanism's. (But that does stop the US Congress, does it?)
God Bless,
SBC
I think it is also important to this part of the discussion to look at how God Himself "protected" His children. In the OT the children of Israel were instructed to kill "innocent woman and children" because they would otherwise lead the children of Israel away from God and into their deaths. IOW"s it's a protection. Time and time again God is instrumental in protecting His children even at the cost of others death. Personally, I think that as long as we are seeking God and not some form of justice or protection we have the right and obligation to protect at least from the standpoint of scripture.
that being said, there is a passage in Amos that says, "Woe unto you who desire the day of the Lord for it is darkness and not light." whereas this passage is not talking about protecting our families I think the principle applies. If we kill the intruder we take away the possibility of his turning to God...which is why I think it is always wise to try to stop them without killing them. IOW's if it comes down to it, go for the leg shot or hand rather than the heart or head. The way I shoot who knows what I would hit....lol
That being said...I dont think it is wrong for other to protect themselves if they desire to. And I personally like Guns and would consider owning one if I had access to a shooting range.
I see no fault in you gunning down the robber,
I dont mind trusting in him......And I dont mind others trusting in their own strength either.
you can't force your convictions on others
the government (military) being required to report soldiers who are dishonorably discharged and deemed unfit to carry or use a weapon is not common sense? How? How is it common sense to hide those things from those who sell weapons to the public?Why is that a "common sense bill"? It's a restriction on the whole of the people.
and so a dishonorable discharge from the military do to being unstable is a one time deal? I have two children who went into the military, one was discharged early because of health issues that stem from an incident that happened in the military...got news for you, the process for determining whether or not to discharge was long, laborous and was much more than a one time depression incident...just fyiYou may think to wish to own a gun - and you may think it a good idea to restrict some, and not others. But you should be aware of the low-down. The medical journals, and boards who decide the mental health status of the people....has ummm. ..reported one in four persons are now considered mentally "imbalanced". Do you think many people have a bout with depression, run to their doctor, get a prescription, yeah, they now have a record, and should be restricted from owning a firearm? But, but, but, that was a one time incident, 5 years ago. So? It's is documented evidence, and based on that documentation, it would hold, to restrict them.
amen...The whole intent for the "bill of rights", was to "ensure" the government WOULD NOT interfere in what they had no authority to govern.
yepJohn Hancock, as lefty as he was, was correct; that there should not have been a "bill of rights". Because what is NOT in the Constitution, the government does not have authority to govern. But BECAUSE the "bill of rights" IS in the Constitution, well....well, the government has their sticky fingers in all kinds of legislation of governing restricting those rights.
Oh we agree on this but that being said, I don't think it is a violation at all to say, I know Joe is mentally unstable and giving him a gun would be a bad idea since he has talked about getting a gun and killing as many people as he can....Rights for the people were intended for the people to be the primary governance over themselves, which by the way is also Biblical, as our rights come from God.
However the people practically break their necks trying to get the government to restrict, restrict, restrict.
I am often times reminded of how bad things went for Israel when they insisted on having a king like all the other nations...I pray we never fall prey to the same sin...Doesn't make sense to me, and even in Scripture, men were doing the same things as today....wanting the government to restrict them....and God Himself warned to not go that route.
God Bless,
SBC
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?