Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[salt-n-light]

This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.

I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?

All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

 

[timewerx]

Matthew 10:16
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

The disciples carried knives in their ministry and I don't think they were for cutting fish since they have ceased to fish at that time. Granted that knives are a very useful tool in those times, they are also effective self-defense weapons.

At one time in the ministry, Jesus defended Himself supernaturally from a crowd who wants to kill Him by apparently vanishing (becoming invisible?) and slipping through them unharmed.

 

[tulc]

Here's an interesting article:
U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2017 | Statista

The statistic shows the number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and 2017, by race and ethnicity of the shooter(s). Between 1982 and October 2017, 51 out of 90 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters. The Las Vegas strip massacre in 2017 had the highest number of victims between 1982 and 2017, with 58 people killed, and over 500 injured.

it would now be 52 out of 91 shootings by white people.
tulc(in case anyone was interested)

 

[tulc]

Matthew 10:16
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

The disciples carried knives in their ministry and I don't think they were for cutting fish since they have ceased to fish at that time. Granted that knives are a very useful tool in those times, they are also effective self-defense weapons.

At one time in the ministry, Jesus defended Himself supernaturally from a crowd who wants to kill Him by apparently vanishing (becoming invisible?) and slipping through them unharmed.

...and the part where Jesus said "kill anyone who attacks you!"? I'd be interested in knowing where that Scripture is.
tulc(couldn't seem to find it in the New Testament concordance)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Apparently if you live by the gun , you will die by it. (Matthew 26:52)

 

[HARK!]

Exodus 22:2 If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed

We have a biblical right to defend ourselves and our loved ones. We are commanded to not murder, but saving lives by taking another who would kill an innocent is not murder.

http://lovewins.us/bible/CLV/Luke 22:36

LUKE 22

36 Yet He said to them, "But now, he who has a purse let him pick it up, likewise a beggar's bag also; and he who has none, let him sell his cloak and buy a sword."

 

[tulc]

LUKE 22

36 Yet He said to them, "But now, he who has a purse let him pick it up, likewise a beggar's bag also; and he who has none, let him sell his cloak and buy a sword."

I own several swords, I'm looking for the Scripture that says I need to buy a gun. A sword is a lot different from a gun.
tulc(isn't even aware of any Scriptures about owning bows and arrows comes to that)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I own several swords, I'm looking for the Scripture that says I need to buy a gun. A sword is a lot different from a gun.
tulc(isn't even aware of any Scriptures about owning bows and arrows comes to that)

Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!” (Proverbs 26:18-19)

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Theres nothing biblically wrong with owning a gun. I mean some may say "Live by it, die by it!". If that is true does this mean no one owns any weapons? No knives? Bats? Cars? Yes cars can be used as a weapon. Even a pencil can. So live by the pencil, die by pencil? Even your own hands can kill someone. Also what about people in the army? Are they in sin by using guns? Why are they not dead then?

I think the problem with some christians and guns is that because guns kill instantly (well depending) and are easy to use, they fear them more. So they call it evil or what not. Actually I can't find the stats right now but something like 50%+ of christians own a gun and of those many carry one into church and eveyrwhere else for protection. A local christian man who trains people with pistols says many of the churchs locally have people with pistols in the church.

Remember, your own church may not look like anyone has guns. But thats why they are concealed. You'd never know who has one or not.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Here's an interesting article:
U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2017 | Statista

it would now be 52 out of 91 shootings by white people.
tulc(in case anyone was interested)

And yet in 2016 alone around 500 killings of whites was by black men. Where as in 2016 only 229 blacks were killed by white men. Seems like you only post facts that favor your views.

 

[tulc]

Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!” (Proverbs 26:18-19)

Dude! That's one of my favorite Scriptures!
tulc(is just sayn')

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Theres nothing biblically wrong with owning a gun. I mean some may say "Live by it, die by it!". If that is true does this mean no one owns any weapons? No knives? Bats? Cars? Yes cars can be used as a weapon. Even a pencil can. So live by the pencil, die by pencil? Even your own hands can kill someone. Also what about people in the army? Are they in sin by using guns? Why are they not dead then?

I think the problem with some christians and guns is that because guns kill instantly (well depending) and are easy to use, they fear them more. So they call it evil or what not. Actually I can't find the stats right now but something like 50%+ of christians own a gun and of those many carry one into church and eveyrwhere else for protection. A local christian man who trains people with pistols says many of the churchs locally have people with pistols in the church.

Remember, your own church may not look like anyone has guns. But thats why they are concealed. You'd never know who has one or not.

Exhibit A, the US has the most gun deaths, and the right to bear arms is an integral element to their culture. You live by guns, you die by them, Jesus did not lie. In that, it is a choice. When Obama was trying to make more gun laws, proponents of the other side of the argument said they'd rather get shot. God is the same God who allowed Adam and Eve to eat from the tree that caused them to die, so there's no commandment against owning weapons that kill. But Jesus did give a good tip to his disciples about living and dying, what would you rather die by?

 

[tulc]

And yet in 2016 alone around 500 killings of whites was by black men. Where as in 2016 only 229 blacks were killed by white men. Seems like you only post facts that favor your views.

I posted some facts about mass shootings I found...speaking of which got a link to support your post?
tulc(is fond of facts)

 

[OCD]

Maybe Jesus had a different context? It wasn't that He was showing favor to His captors, but the fact that He had to go and die on the cross, so defending Him and trying to stop the crucifixion from happening wasn't the right move at the time.

But Jesus did tell a group to sell their cloak and buy a sword if they didn't have one...for self defense!

Luke 22:35-36 "Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!"

So, there's no issue with owning a weapon or defending yourself.

I think you are pointing out something that is sorely lacking in public discourse and debate: context.

The account where Paul cuts off the priests ear and is rebuked by Jesus, Jesus says: (John 11) “Put your sword back in its sheath!” Jesus said to Peter. “Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given Me?”…
In effect yes Jesus is saying this was meant to happen and you aren't to try to stop it, not necessarily that Paul is not to use a sword ever.

I think the context there can be expanded upon in a few ways;
1. Paul acts out of emotion (acts with his heart) and we are to master our emotions, not let them master us. (i.e. Act wisely in the situation).
2. Paul's response to the situation was wholly out of proportion to their treatment at this point (the priest wasn't hacking at them with a sword, just apprehending them). I think the only physical contact at this point was Judas's kiss, a kiss of betrayal yes, but still not a direct attack on his physical person.
3. Peter is still not trusting Jesus at his word, Jesus has explained to his disciples several times that this was going to happen and yet Peter doesn't trust that and acts on his own, just as we all do in our own ways living the lives of the rebellious children that we are.
4. Peter stumbles in his faith even with Jesus standing right next to him! Although Jesus rebukes him for it, he doesn't forsake him for it. How often are we riding high on our blessed assurance to suddenly stumble and fall in our own lives? Yet high or low Jesus is there beside us, inviting us to continue the walk with him.

Earlier in the account when Jesus tells them to buy swords, he says that two are enough (Luke 36-38).
So basically Jesus is telling them to arm themselves, but is also telling them not to go overboard with it.
This says (to me at least) that Jesus was in favor of self defense (otherwise why carry the swords at all?) but that acting in that self defense is to be controlled and appropriate, not murderous and excessive.

Of course Jesus never told anyone anywhere in the Bible to hurt another person, yet he implies on more than one occasion that certain actions in defense or righteousness can be justified. I think there is an important distinction there about intent.

 

[HARK!]

I own several swords, I'm looking for the Scripture that says I need to buy a gun. A sword is a lot different from a gun.
tulc(isn't even aware of any Scriptures about owning bows and arrows comes to that)

The swords of yesterday have become the guns of today.

Notice that armies of today go into battle with guns, not swords.

Tip for the day:

Don't bring a sword to a gun fight.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

On the other hand, they banned guns in the UK and had an increase of knifings, removing access to weaponry does not reduce the general bloodlust in the populace.

 

[dogs4thewin]

If I could own a gun ( cannot due to poor eyesight and motor skills, but if I could I would. I would also have a concealed carry permit. There is nothing wrong with using deadly force if you fear that your life is in danger. In fact, I have a problem with people who do not believe it is OK to defend OTHERS. . If you feel that you should not defend YOURSELF I respect that, but when you start having issues with people defending themselves or defending others that is a topic that would get heated with me. In fact, I believe that people who are not WILLING to fight for the freedoms we enjoy do not deserve them.

 

[dogs4thewin]

...do you remember the last time a guy walked into a church and killed 26 people with a lock on a door?
tulc(asking for a friend)

Do you remember what stopped that same person? A gun in the hands of someone who was protecting himself and others. a gun may have started it, but it also ended it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Apparently if you live by the gun , you will die by it. (Matthew 26:52)

There is a difference in USING it and living by it. I know plenty of people who own guns ( This is the rural south) I however know NO one who would start a fight with a gun or otherwise,but you can bet those people would use them for protection if the need arose.

 

[tulc]

The swords of yesterday have become the guns of today.

Yes and no, what brought this particular discussion about was the insistence that "since God never changes!" any Old Testament Laws would still apply to us today, my (pretty poorly made though it was) was "Well if God doesn't change and His Laws don't change, isn't it sort of wrong to think we canjus change the weapons we use to obey those Laws?" That's why I'm curious where, in the Bible, everyone finds where Jesus said we should buy guns.

Notice that armies of today go into battle with guns, not swords.

Don't get me started on Christians and armies, I'm of an Anabaptist background and that would be another whole can of worms this thread isn't ready to derail off into!

Tip for the day:

Don't bring a sword to a gun fight.

Oh man! Now I'm thinking about watching "The Untouchables!" again!

tulc("Where's Nitti? He's in the car!")