Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[cyberlizard]

For some reason though, the Messianic sect thinks they are in BOTH the OC and NC. Never made much sense to me. Sometimes I wonder if they even understand the OC Scriptures as applied to the Jews.

Ephesians 2 clearly speaks about non-jewish people coming to faith now being able to participate in the COVENANTS - Note the use of the plural.... which covenants do you think these are referring too?

This is just a question....


Steve

p.s. it cannot mean the 'new covenant' as we were not strangers to that, as that was open to both Jew and non-Jew so it must clearly be some other covenants.... just a question of which ones.

 

[TheCheat1]

the book of Acts clearly shows that the apostles asked him (Paul) to prove he walked according to Torah by undergoing a ritual purification process with other believers who had taken a nazarite vow... what did this entail, shaving their heads, sacrificng an animal, ritual mikvah, period of purification.

Why would these believers do such a thing, and more to the point why would Paul.


Steve

Verse?

p.s. I like the prophecies from Isaiah 56 about the gentiles who would later come to faith in 'david' AKA Jesus, who would keep the Sabbath and be observant.

The only thing that is really changed is the location where the Torah has been written.

Verse?

What you are failing to see is that EVERYONE defiles the Sabbath (James 2:10)! So we've all failed! That's why we need Jesus!

Here's a quick summation of the Gospel:

Man sins. Therefore, when God says, "Keep My Law," we don't. When God says, "Whoever keeps my Law I will give a portion," He's talking to us-- but since no one keeps His Law (all you gotta' do is sin once and you've done yourself in, James 2:10, Romans 3:23), we're all going to Hell (Revelation 21:8). That's why we need Jesus' atoning sacrifice (John 3:16).

And therein lies the New Covenant, where Jesus has fulfilled the Law and has saved us from it's wrath. The soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4), but the soul that dies to sin shall live (Galatians 5:24). Don't be those who draw back to perdition, be of those who "believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:29)!

Quite the contrary i believe. Those not keeping Gods sabbath will bear no stripes. You guys claim the 10 commandments are no longer to followed. The WORD of God says...

DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, AS A MAN CHASTENETH HIS SON, SO THE LORD THY GOD CHASTENETH THEE.[6]THEREFORE THOU SHALT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD THY GOD, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

Now if you do not attempt to keep Gods commandments, if you claim they are no more to be kept, then God cannot chasten you.

PSALM 94 [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Any you who claim there is no law know when the pit is to dug for the wicked?

REV.3 [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

So if you believe this new testament scripture and do not believe you are capable of sinning because there is no law, what are you guys going to repent of? A bad hair day?

What you don't understand is that since Christ fulfilled the Law FOR me (Matthew 5:17), I am dead to the Law and to sin, and free from the bondage of both (Galatians, Romans, Hebrews), and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me (Galatians 2:20)! And now, I am told to be under the Spirit and therefore am not under the Law (Galatians 5:18), and am to bear the fruits of the same Spirit (Galatians 5:22-25)!

Any scripture to back up those words?

Romans 14:5-13.

Ephesians 2 clearly speaks about non-jewish people coming to faith now being able to participate in the COVENANTS - Note the use of the plural.... which covenants do you think these are referring too?

p.s. it cannot mean the 'new covenant' as we were not strangers to that, as that was open to both Jew and non-Jew so it must clearly be some other covenants.... just a question of which ones.

Verse?


Sincerely,

Joe

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ephesians 2 clearly speaks about non-jewish people coming to faith now being able to participate in the COVENANTS - Note the use of the plural.... which covenants do you think these are referring too?
This is just a question....
Steve
p.s. it cannot mean the 'new covenant' as we were not strangers to that, as that was open to both Jew and non-Jew so it must clearly be some other covenants.... just a question of which ones.

What is it you Messianics/SDA's do not understand about NEW . I thought with ya'll being part Jewish you would at least understand it, but, I guess I was wrong.

The same word for "new" in Hebrews 8:8 is the same one used for the new "heaven/land" for the "Israel".

Hebrews 8:8 "For faulting to-them, He is saying:, `Behold, days are coming, is saying Lord.
And I shall-be-together-finishing upon the house of Israel, and upon the house of Judah a Covenant, New/kainhn <2537>"" [Jeremiah 31:31]

Revelation 21:1 And I perceived a-Heaven, New/kainon <2537>, and a-Land, New/kainhn <2537>, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......

 

[cyberlizard]

For TheCheat

For Paul observing old testament practices - read the book of Acts paying particular attention to chapter 21, where the apostles asked him to do something for them...

Isaiah 56 - you want the verse - how about reading the chapter for yourself.

As to ephesians 2, ask LittleLamb he will confirm using the software he uses that the word for 'covenants' is definately plural in the greek. But read it for yourself, even the NIV translates it in the plural.


For Littlelamb, as far as I know, I have no Jewish ancestry at all, neither am I a seventh day adventist. I was saved in a church which was at the time a member of the Assemblies of God (UK), though now it is just affiliated. Now official oversight.

An earlier post says Christ fulfilled the law for them... good for you, but can you explain how he fulfilled the law for a woman as he was unable to keep those commands.


Steve

 

[Alethes]

For TheCheat

For Paul observing old testament practices - read the book of Acts paying particular attention to chapter 21, where the apostles asked him to do something for them...

Isaiah 56 - you want the verse - how about reading the chapter for yourself.

As to ephesians 2, ask LittleLamb he will confirm using the software he uses that the word for 'covenants' is definately plural in the greek. But read it for yourself, even the NIV translates it in the plural.


For Littlelamb, as far as I know, I have no Jewish ancestry at all, neither am I a seventh day adventist. I was saved in a church which was at the time a member of the Assemblies of God (UK), though now it is just affiliated. Now official oversight.

An earlier post says Christ fulfilled the law for them... good for you, but can you explain how he fulfilled the law for a woman as he was unable to keep those commands.
Steve

Paul did not at all observed any of the OT practices, and neither did he convert the Gentiles to Judaism. He was against such things, and preached Christ only.

Galatians 2:3,4: "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage."

Paul did not give in to their pressure to make Titus, a Gentile convert, a Jew by circumcision. That's what Paul means in 5:1 by:"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

That is, do not let the Judaizers bewitch you into thinking that circumcision or any other outward act of obedience can be offered to God as a benefit to Him which he must then reward with some payment.
--------------------------------------------

Regarding Acts 21

The only reason Paul went through that whole purification trip was to avoid a riot or outburst of the Jews who were still practicing circumcison and other Jewish customs He walked by the spirit of God in him and received revelation from God. He did what God told him to do. Paulto did whatever was necessary to preach the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles. There is nothing in the Word of God that shows Paul observed any Jewish practices.

Paul became all things to all people.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23:
19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
----------------------------------------------
Regarding Ephesians 2:12:

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Notice it states covenants "of promise," not of works."

They were strangers/foreigners/ people who did not belong to the family receving the covenants/binding-agreements pertaining to the "promise," God's own proclamation relative to the Christ. At that ime they without hope and without God in the world.

God bless you.

 

[TheCheat1]

For TheCheat

For Paul observing old testament practices - read the book of Acts paying particular attention to chapter 21, where the apostles asked him to do something for them...

Isaiah 56 - you want the verse - how about reading the chapter for yourself.

As to ephesians 2, ask LittleLamb he will confirm using the software he uses that the word for 'covenants' is definately plural in the greek. But read it for yourself, even the NIV translates it in the plural.

I've read Acts 21 numerous times before, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

I did. Again, I don't see what you're talking about. A verse would be nice.

I would also like a verse for what you're referring to here. All I see is verse 12, which refers to "the covenants of the promise"-- not the old covenant or new covenant. Notice verse 15, which says, " [Jesus] having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [v. 16] and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity." This is referring to Jews and Gentiles being united in one covenant, the New Covenant-- because at one time they were under two separate covenants (one for Israel and one for Gentiles), which we refer to as the Old Tesament. We, the Gentiles, are "brought near by the blood of Christ" (v. 13)!

 

[visionary]

What you are failing to see is that EVERYONE defiles the Sabbath (James 2:10)! So we've all failed! That's why we need Jesus!

Here's a quick summation of the Gospel:

Man sins. Therefore, when God says, "Keep My Law," we don't. When God says, "Whoever keeps my Law I will give a portion," He's talking to us-- but since no one keeps His Law (all you gotta' do is sin once and you've done yourself in, James 2:10, Romans 3:23), we're all going to Hell (Revelation 21:8). That's why we need Jesus' atoning sacrifice (John 3:16).

And therein lies the New Covenant, where Jesus has fulfilled the Law and has saved us from it's wrath. The soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4), but the soul that dies to sin shall live (Galatians 5:24). Don't be those who draw back to perdition, be of those who "believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:29)!

What you don't understand is that since Christ fulfilled the Law FOR me (Matthew 5:17), I am dead to the Law and to sin, and free from the bondage of both (Galatians, Romans, Hebrews), and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me (Galatians 2:20)! And now, I am told to be under the Spirit and therefore am not under the Law (Galatians 5:18), and am to bear the fruits of the same Spirit (Galatians 5:22-25)!

Romans 14:5-13.

Sincerely
Joe

Amen.... Still does not make void the law and this thinking will be something that the Lord will have to deal withhere...because the truth is.. here All the Yeshua has done for us, uplifts us not to be under but to get back into the race of faith, strengthened by His Loving Holy Spirit, no longer burdened by the sins that so beset us. Not like thishere but like this here Amen... The law is good and holyhere. It is where we gain wisdom here
,here , and here and it is the only thing in all of scripture that converts the soul here. The Law is powerful under the magnifying glass of the Holy Spirit here, and spiritually alive here, convicting us of our sins here, that we may repent here, be transformed into His likeness here.

 

[visionary]

Paul did not qt all observed any of the OT practices, and neither did he convert the Gentiles to Judaism. He was against such things, and preached Christ only.

Galatians 2:3,4: "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage."

Paul did not give in to their pressure to make Titus, a Gentile convert, a Jew by circumcision. That's what Paul means in 5:1 by:"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

That is, do not let the Judaizers bewitch you into thinking that circumcision or any other outward act of obedience can be offered to God as a benefit to Him which he must then reward with some payment.
--------------------------------------------

Regarding Acts 21

The only reason Paul went through that whole purification trip was to avoid a riot or outburst of the Jews who were still practicing circumcison and other Jewish customs He walked by the spirit of God in him and received revelation from God. He did what God told him to do. Paulto did whatever was necessary to preach the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles. There is nothing in the Word of God that shows Paul observed any Jewish practices.

Paul became all things to all people.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23:
19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
----------------------------------------------
Regarding Ephesians 2:12:

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Notice it states covenants "of promise," not of works."

They were strangers/foreigners/ people who did not belong to the family receving the covenants/binding-agreements pertaining to the "promise," God's own proclamation relative to the Christ. At that ime they without hope and without God in the world.

God bless you.

A study on the circumcision issue throughout NT will reveal it was the only issue regarding conversion to Yeshua style Judaism called The Way.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A study on the circumcision issue throughout NT will reveal it was the only issue regarding conversion to Yeshua style Judaism called The Way.

So what Christians practice that religious mutilation anymore? I know I don't

Acts 7:8 And he gives him a covenant of circumcision: and thus generates the Isaac, and circumcises him to the Day, the Eighth; and Isaac the Jacob; and Jacob the twelve patriarchs.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the Eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition {Levi is listed 8th in the order of Tribes Revelation]

 

[TheCheat1]

Visionary,

Amen.... Still does not make void the law and this thinking will be something that the Lord will have to deal withhere...because the truth is.. here All the Yeshua has done for us, uplifts us not to be under but to get back into the race of faith, strengthened by His Loving Holy Spirit, no longer burdened by the sins that so beset us. Not like thishere but like this here Amen... The law is good and holyhere. It is where we gain wisdom here
,here , and here and it is the only thing in all of scripture that converts the soul here. The Law is powerful under the magnifying glass of the Holy Spirit here, and spiritually alive here, convicting us of our sins here, that we may repent here, be transformed into His likeness here.

I will address each point.

1. 121 I have done justice and righteousness;
Do not leave me to my oppressors.
122 Be surety for Your servant for good;
Do not let the proud oppress me.
123 My eyes fail from seeking Your salvation
And Your righteous word.
124 Deal with Your servant according to Your mercy,
And teach me Your statutes.
125 I am Your servant;
Give me understanding,
That I may know Your testimonies.
126 It is time for You to act, O LORD,
For they have regarded Your law as void.

When read in context, David was talking about people who hated him and hated God. Hebrew "void" means "to make of no effect". I'm not doing this.


2.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Greek "void" means "useless". I'm not doing this. The Law is not useless, it's what shows sin. It DOESN'T save from sin. Greek "establish" means "hold up, present". The Law is meant to be used in evangelism, to show the need for Jesus-- so it isn't useless! We don't make the Law void through faith! But we're saved and justified by faith (Acts 13:29)!

3.

2And they consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness: now their own doings have beset them about; they are before my face.

This is written to the unrepentant, for God no longer considers the Christian's sin (Jeremiah 31:34).

4.

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

This is the same thing Paul talked about in 2 Timothy 4:7.

5.

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

YES! Problem is, we aren't holy or just or good, and we don't keep it (Romans 3:23, James 2:10). Thus, we need Jesus (Acts 13:39).

6.

12Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.

Right! Again, only problem is that NOBODY keeps the Law, and that's why we need Jesus, because He fulfilled it for us (Matthew 5:17).

7.

25And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know them not.

Same as before.

8.

26She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.

This isn’t the Law. This verse, in context (Proverbs 31:10-21), is talking about a godly woman, and this is talking about her being wise.

9.

7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

RIGHT! The Law converts the soul—it doesn’t SAVE the soul. That’s why we need Christ!

10.

21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

And He has! If not for the Law, there would be no knowledge of sin (Romans 7:7-12).

11.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Same as last.

12.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Right! The Law is what makes our conscience work—but it doesn’t SAVE us. You’re getting confused between the converting of the soul and the saving of the soul. We’re not saved by doing the works of the law, we’re converted by realizing that we can’t fulfill the Law and having faith in the Messiah Jesus, that He has atoned for us!

13.

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

“Repent” means to “have a change of mind”. This is what is supposed to happen—repentance is changing your mind from sin and to God, but the Law doesn’t do this, Christ does (Galatians 5:24).

14.

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Same as last.


Sincerely,

Joe

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

&#8220;Repent&#8221; means to &#8220;have a change of mind&#8221;. This is what is supposed to happen&#8212;repentance is changing your mind from sin and to God, but the Law doesn&#8217;t do this, Christ does (Galatians 5:24).

Correctomundo!!!!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Mark 1:15 And saying, "Has been filled the Time, and has-neared the Kingdom of the GOD.
Be ye reforming/repenting/meta-noeite <3340> (5720)!, and be ye believing! in the Good-Message".

Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the GOD of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them. And not they repent/reform/mete-nohsan <3340> (5656) out of the works of them.

3340. metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
3326. meta met-ah' a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined;
3539. noieo noy-eh'-o from 3563; to exercise the mind (observe), i.e. (figuratively) to comprehend, heed:--consider, perceive, think, understand.

 

[visionary]

Now you are getting it.... The Law has a valid part in the process and in the new life in Christ. Way to go Joe.

 

[TheCheat1]

No, I already had it. I never denied the fact that the Law is vital to Christians, to God, or to the New Covenant-- it is, because it converts the soul (doesn't save it). I just denied that we're supposed to keep it (because we aren't). We're freed from the Law, that's the purpose of the New Covenant! Don't take me out of context and try to make it sound like we're agreeing, because (and I say this respectfully) we're not.

Sincerely,

Joe

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Now you are getting it.... The Law has a valid part in the process and in the new life in Christ. Way to go Joe.

I see that part of revelation I quoted already fufilled on the OC Jews/Priesthood/Lawbreakers.

I suppose the next punishement will be on us lowly Goyim Sabbath breakers since we are 2nd in line LOL.

 

[visionary]

No, I already had it. I never denied the fact that the Law is vital to Christians, to God, or to the New Covenant-- it is, because it converts the soul (doesn't save it). I just denied that we're supposed to keep it (because we aren't). We're freed from the Law, that's the purpose of the New Covenant! Don't take me out of context and try to make it sound like we're agreeing, because (and I say this respectfully) we're not.

Sincerely,

Joe

I see... you are a learner because of what it teaches.. but not a doer of the law..

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I see... you are a learner because of what it teaches.. but not a doer of the law..

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Well if ya want to get technical, we are happy not blessed.

You are happy keeping the Jewish Sabbath because, well, you are Jewish. I am happy keeping any day of the week. So ya see, we are both happy.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

James 1:25 The yet one-peering law perfect the of the freedom and abiding/remaining ,not listener forgetful becoming, but a doer of work, this one happy/makarioV <3107> in the doing of him shall be

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The Change of the Sabbath to Sunday usually is misunderstood by both sides. Both go in trying to defend his or her position. Sunday Advocates say that it was changed at the ressuressection of Christ. A claim that is just false. Sabbath Advocates Claim it was never changed and it was a result of pagan influencen on the chruch. I have been studying out this issue out and I have come to some conclusion. So here is it goes.

Jesus after his resurrection told the disciples to go first to the lost sheep of the House of Israel then to the Gentiles. This command was the pattern for Evangelism for about 20 or 25 years. This pattern made it unnecessary to change anything, because they saw themselves as the fulfillment of Judaism. There was No need do disassociate themselves from the Jews because they were the primary evangelistic audience. But things changed.

Christianity Spread to Rome very Early, In fact on can make the case from scripture and history that there were worshipers from Rome at the Passover and at Pentecost. Onisius, a Christian Historian at the time of Augustine, tells us that with in 9 months of the resurrection, Christ was being talked about in the Roman Senate. This establishes a Christian presence in the Capital of the empire, very quickly and very early. This is important because something happened in Rome in the late in the 40's. The Jews were Kicked out of Rome over a riots over someone named "Chrestus". Shortly after that there is a Counsel to discuss how Jewish one must become in order to be a Christian; this is recorded in Acts 15. 3 chapters later Paul has journeyed to Corinth and met up with Pricilla and Aquila, 2 members of the Jewish Christian Church that met in Rome, had been kicked out of Rome during the ban. They spent months traveling together and sometime after the Ban was lifted in the early 50's they went back to Rome, for there names are recorded in the letter to the Romans written in the early 60's.
The Gentile Christians stayed in Rome and for the years of the ban were in charge. This caused a natural shift in power and emphasis of Evangelism. If there were no Jew to run the church and no Jews to Evangelize then whom do you Evangelize and whom should lead the church? Well the Gentiles of course. This shift in focus caused the natural questions to be asked,&#8221; How much Judaism do we need to be a Christian?&#8221; How much of the Jewish Culture was to be adopted, Circumcision, Dietary Restrictions, Feast days and what ever else? This would naturally lead to the question of the Sabbath. Should we or should we not keep it.


Compounding the problem was the fact that the Jews began to have problems with the Romans. In 40 AD Caligula sacrificed an animal in the temple causing the first open rift between the Jews and the Romans. The rebellion was put down. From then on the talk of independence began to grow and resentment caused the Jews to rebel against the Roman oppressors and vie for an independent nation. This caused trouble for the Jews in Rome. As Jews, as a people, began to fall out of favor with the Romans, the Jews in Rome felt the brunt of it. This also affected the Jewish Christians because the Romans could not tell the Difference between a Jew and a Jewish Christian. In response to this the Church in Rome began to emphasize the difference. In order to do this the Church instituted the day after the Sabbath as the day of "Public" Assembly and told the Christians to keep the Sabbath at home. This was the standard policy until the mid to late 200's; When Sabbath bashing began to be full blown.

The Wars between the Jews and the Romans accelerated the rift and made permanent any separation between Jew and Christian. Starting in 40 AD when Caligula, as mentioned above, sacrificed an animal in the Temple the Jews began open rebellion. In 66 the Jews rebelled in the "Great War" when Titus came in and crushed the Rebellion and Destroyed the Temple he chased the rebels to Masada where they committed suicide. In 115 the "Kitos wars" raged all over the empire, staring in Cyrene spreading to Cypress and Crete, then to Alexandria in Egypt where 250000 people were killed. The Rebellion then spread to Mesopotamia where the Fighting in Judea took place. 3 years after the Kitos Rebellion Started it was put down. During this time ALL Jewish Customs were outlawed in public, including the Sabbath. This would have posed a problem for Jewish Christians, because they still worshiped on the Sabbath, but the issued had already been addressed and so the policy of "keep Sabbath at home and publicly assemble" on Lords Day" was followed.

In 130 the Jews rioted. When Hadrian visited Jerusalem took pity on the Jews and promised to rebuild the temple and the city, but was going to dedicate it to "Jupiter" and was going to rename Jerusalem "Anliea Capitola" a Greek city. This did not go over well with the Jew and war ensued. During the War which lasted 3 years almost 600000 people died in the fighting. Hadrian in his address to the senate omitted the common opening line 'If you and your children are in health, it is well; I and the army are in health.', because things were so bad. This was the final war between the Jews and the Romans for 230 years and the beginning of the Diaspora. As a result the Jews were banned from Jerusalem. Jewish customs including Sabbath Keeping were banned for a period of time.

By the time of the Bar Kokhaba revolts, The Christian Church had been practicing the Lord's Day. The wars with the Jews only heightened the need for there own Identity. Anti-jewish sentiment and resentment further developed the rift. In order to Evangelize and fulfill the Mission of Christ. Measures were taken by the Church to create a distinct Identity. Emphasizing the difference between the 2 Faiths allowed the Christians to protect it's self from unnecessary conflict and persecution with Rome. As time went on the Anti-jewish sentiment became so strong that even Christian leaders especially in Rome and Alexander the scene of some of the worst killing, began to speak against the Jewish roots of Christianity and especially the Sabbath. Sabbath although practiced in private soon was denigrated and then demonized, the seen of the worst anti-sabbath sentiment was the areas where the Jews had fought the Romans. Sabbath out side of this conflict flourished and lasted in some cases until the modern era.
In Ethiopia Sabbath lasted until the 1800, India until the 1600 when the Inquisition came and persecuted the St Thomason Christians for the practice. The Orthodox Christians the practiced continued until 1000 to 1200 in some areas. In Asia Minor it was until 700 and in Ireland until as late as 600. The development of the Lords' Day took root where it was needed, Rome and Alexandria, was not intended to be a permanent solution and was never meant to be a Holy day. Thus no command is ever give to keep it holy. When Constantine decided to use Christianity as the glue of his empire he cemented the change. In a series of 7 Sunday laws or decrees, He made the official day of rest in the empire the practice of the "Lord's day" This is the origin , nature and development of the Lord's Day

 

[TheCheat1]

I see... you are a learner because of what it teaches.. but not a doer of the law..

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

It's odd, how you completely ignore my challenges to your arguments and skip to new verses.

This is the law of liberty, not the law of Moses. The law of liberty is the "word" (James 1:22-24). The Greek word "word" here is Logos, the same word used to describe Jesus in John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Logos"). "Doers" literally means "performers". The phrase in Greek is "performers of the Logos". What does that mean? We're to fulfill the law of liberty, which is the same as the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). This is not the Law of Moses, but the New Covenant (Galatians 6:2). If you're going to read James 1:25, you've got to continue on to verse 27, which says religion God accepts is to "keep oneself unspotted from the world." You can't do that by the Law (James 2:10).

The Change of the Sabbath to Sunday usually is misunderstood by both sides. Both go in trying to defend his or her position. Sunday Advocates say that it was changed at the ressuressection of Christ. A claim that is just false. Sabbath Advocates Claim it was never changed and it was a result of pagan influencen on the chruch. I have been studying out this issue out and I have come to some conclusion. So here is it goes.

Jesus after his resurrection told the disciples to go first to the lost sheep of the House of Israel then to the Gentiles. This command was the pattern for Evangelism for about 20 or 25 years. This pattern made it unnecessary to change anything, because they saw themselves as the fulfillment of Judaism. There was No need do disassociate themselves from the Jews because they were the primary evangelistic audience. But things changed.

Christianity Spread to Rome very Early, In fact on can make the case from scripture and history that there were worshipers from Rome at the Passover and at Pentecost.

Onisius, a Christian Historian at the time of Augustine, tells us that with in 9 months of the resurrection, Christ was being talked about in the Roman Senate. This establishes a Christian presence in the Capital of the empire, very quickly and very early. This is important because something happened in Rome in the late in the 40's. The Jews were Kicked out of Rome over a riots over someone named "Chrestus". Shortly after that there is a Counsel to discuss how Jewish one must become in order to be a Christian; this is recorded in Acts 15.

Verse 24, “Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, ‘You must be circumcised and keep the law’—to whom we gave no such commandment—“ That makes it clear (as if the other verses that have been listed didn’t) that we are told in the Scriptures not to follow the law if we are in Christ.

3 chapters later Paul has journeyed to Corinth and met up with Pricilla and Aquila, 2 members of the Jewish Christian Church that met in Rome, had been kicked out of Rome during the ban. They spent months traveling together and sometime after the Ban was lifted in the early 50's they went back to Rome, for there names are recorded in the letter to the Romans written in the early 60's.
The Gentile Christians stayed in Rome and for the years of the ban were in charge. This caused a natural shift in power and emphasis of Evangelism. If there were no Jew to run the church and no Jews to Evangelize then whom do you Evangelize and whom should lead the church? Well the Gentiles of course. This shift in focus caused the natural questions to be asked,” How much Judaism do we need to be a Christian?” How much of the Jewish Culture was to be adopted, Circumcision, Dietary Restrictions, Feast days and what ever else? This would naturally lead to the question of the Sabbath. Should we or should we not keep it.

Compounding the problem was the fact that the Jews began to have problems with the Romans. In 40 AD Caligula sacrificed an animal in the temple causing the first open rift between the Jews and the Romans. The rebellion was put down. From then on the talk of independence began to grow and resentment caused the Jews to rebel against the Roman oppressors and vie for an independent nation. This caused trouble for the Jews in Rome. As Jews, as a people, began to fall out of favor with the Romans, the Jews in Rome felt the brunt of it. This also affected the Jewish Christians because the Romans could not tell the Difference between a Jew and a Jewish Christian. In response to this the Church in Rome began to emphasize the difference. In order to do this the Church instituted the day after the Sabbath as the day of "Public" Assembly and told the Christians to keep the Sabbath at home. This was the standard policy until the mid to late 200's; When Sabbath bashing began to be full blown.


The Wars between the Jews and the Romans accelerated the rift and made permanent any separation between Jew and Christian. Starting in 40 AD when Caligula, as mentioned above, sacrificed an animal in the Temple the Jews began open rebellion. In 66 the Jews rebelled in the "Great War" when Titus came in and crushed the Rebellion and Destroyed the Temple he chased the rebels to Masada where they committed suicide. In 115 the "Kitos wars" raged all over the empire, staring in Cyrene spreading to Cypress and Crete, then to Alexandria in Egypt where 250000 people were killed. The Rebellion then spread to Mesopotamia where the Fighting in Judea took place. 3 years after the Kitos Rebellion Started it was put down. During this time ALL Jewish Customs were outlawed in public, including the Sabbath. This would have posed a problem for Jewish Christians, because they still worshiped on the Sabbath, but the issued had already been addressed and so the policy of "keep Sabbath at home and publicly assemble" on Lords Day" was followed.

In 130 the Jews rioted. When Hadrian visited Jerusalem took pity on the Jews and promised to rebuild the temple and the city, but was going to dedicate it to "Jupiter" and was going to rename Jerusalem "Anliea Capitola" a Greek city. This did not go over well with the Jew and war ensued. During the War which lasted 3 years almost 600000 people died in the fighting. Hadrian in his address to the senate omitted the common opening line 'If you and your children are in health, it is well; I and the army are in health.', because things were so bad. This was the final war between the Jews and the Romans for 230 years and the beginning of the Diaspora. As a result the Jews were banned from Jerusalem. Jewish customs including Sabbath Keeping were banned for a period of time.

By the time of the Bar Kokhaba revolts, The Christian Church had been practicing the Lord's Day. The wars with the Jews only heightened the need for there own Identity. Anti-jewish sentiment and resentment further developed the rift. In order to Evangelize and fulfill the Mission of Christ. Measures were taken by the Church to create a distinct Identity. Emphasizing the difference between the 2 Faiths allowed the Christians to protect it's self from unnecessary conflict and persecution with Rome. As time went on the Anti-jewish sentiment became so strong that even Christian leaders especially in Rome and Alexander the scene of some of the worst killing, began to speak against the Jewish roots of Christianity and especially the Sabbath. Sabbath although practiced in private soon was denigrated and then demonized, the seen of the worst anti-sabbath sentiment was the areas where the Jews had fought the Romans. Sabbath out side of this conflict flourished and lasted in some cases until the modern era.
In Ethiopia Sabbath lasted until the 1800, India until the 1600 when the Inquisition came and persecuted the St Thomason Christians for the practice. The Orthodox Christians the practiced continued until 1000 to 1200 in some areas. In Asia Minor it was until 700 and in Ireland until as late as 600. The development of the Lords' Day took root where it was needed, Rome and Alexandria, was not intended to be a permanent solution and was never meant to be a Holy day. Thus no command is ever give to keep it holy. When Constantine decided to use Christianity as the glue of his empire he cemented the change. In a series of 7 Sunday laws or decrees, He made the official day of rest in the empire the practice of the "Lord's day" This is the origin , nature and development of the Lord's Day

If you are discounting what the New Testament says (don’t keep the law if you’re a Christian, Galatians 5:18)… the apostle John celebrated on the Lord’s Day (Revelation 1:10), as did Paul and the other apostles (Acts 20:7). Why is all of that ignored?

 

[cyberlizard]

let me propose a question (for men only)... suppose you as a gentile believer in Christ, i.e. not of Jewish descent, and you develop cancer of the glans.

Your doctor strongly recommends that your foreskin be circumcised as this is a precipitating factor (and it often is).

Should you go ahead with this procedure, or do you think it would nullify your salvation (Galatians 5v2). Remember this is being done on medical grounds and only for the medical procedure being discussed.

Steve

p.s. I will explain my rationale for the question in a later post.

 

[TheCheat1]

There's a difference between getting circumcised for medical reasons and for religious reasons. Second, it doesn't nullify my salvation to get circumcised, the only way to not have salvation is to not have faith in Christ alone (John 3:16). Putting faith in the law is not having faith in Christ alone (Galatians 5:15).

Start reading things in context-- the Bible says not to get drunk. Does this mean that when Paul prescribed Timothy a little wine for his stomach, he was contradicting the Bible? No, it's context. The context of Galatians is the law, not medical procedures.

Sincerely,

Joe