Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[LittleLambofJesus]

How many times do you see circumscim mentioned in these 6, very short chapters? The LAW of circumcision is mentioned 16 times in one way or the other.

How many times do you see the word commandments mentioned? Yup. Zero. Notta. Zilch.

There also seems to be a bit of contention between the Orthodox Jews and Psalm 22:16. But the fact that "dogs" are mentioned both there and in Phil 3:2 should be a clue to whom Paul was referring. Pretty interesting if you do not let bias get in the way. Thoughts?

Psalm 22:16 For Dogs have surrounded me, a crowd of evil doers have compass me as lion my hands and feet.

Phil 3:2 Beware of-the Dogs, beware of-the evil workers, beware of-the circumcision! 3 For we-are the circumcision, ones to Spirit of God worship, boasting in Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7249302
Psalm 22:16 Translation.

 

[WailingWall]

Paul kept the Sabbath, yeah-- when he was a Jew. Read Galatians 2, Paul fought against keeping the Law!

Hi Cheat
Im not absolutely sure but wasnt Paul a persecutor of the Jews? Could you please post the scripture that says Paul was a practicing Jew before Jesus stoped him on the road to Damascus (i think it was Damascus). Thanks

 

[WailingWall]

There also seems to be a bit of contention between the Orthodox Jews and Psalm 22:16. But the fact that "dogs" are mentioned both there and in Phil 3:2 should be a clue to whom Paul was referring. Pretty interesting if you do not let bias get in the way. Thoughts?

Psalm 22:16 For Dogs have surrounded me, a crowd of evil doers have compass me as lion my hands and feet.

Phil 3:2 Beware of-the Dogs, beware of-the evil workers, beware of-the circumcision! 3 For we-are the circumcision, ones to Spirit of God worship, boasting in Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence.

Hi LLoJ
I really am not sure what point you are making. If you explain i will listen without bias.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi LLoJ
I really am not sure what point you are making. If you explain i will listen without bias.

Why not give your view of it? Ya ever study on that Covenantle parable of the "rich-man/lazarus"?
Lotz of good points made in it between the Old and New Covenant in it and I could just about harmonize all of Revelation with it. Some of it is in my Siggy.

 

[TheCheat1]

Before believing the Cheat is giving compelling evidence that we need not keep Gods 10 commandments by quoting galatians please go read the whole book.

How many times do you see circumscim mentioned in these 6, very short chapters? The LAW of circumscim is mentioned 16 times in one way or the other.

How many times do you see the word commandments mentioned? Yup. Zero. Notta. Zilch.

So why does the Cheat use one liners out of the book of galatians, saying we need not keep Gods 10 commandments. Circumsicion was a real big ordeal for the Jews. The whole book of galatians spoke on this matter. In Romans. All over the new testament the law of circumsion was discussed. Could you imagine how many books on the sabbath would have been written in the new testament if anyone tried to tell them they no longer needed to keep Gods sabbath day. Yikes! But....as you read through the new testament you will find not one word of this discussed. Anyone of you sunday keepers know why?

I'm not giving one-liners-- I'd be surprised if I haven't at least given half the book of Galatians already.

You are still ignoring Romans (which says there is no return to the law), Hebrews (which says there is no return to the law), Jesus (who says He fulfilled the Law and Prophets), and Galatians 2:15-21, where Paul says that "I through the Law died to the Law that I might live to God." Galatians isn't just about circumcision (as you would have us believe), but about the whole Law!

Hi Cheat
Im not absolutely sure but wasnt Paul a persecutor of the Jews? Could you please post the scripture that says Paul was a practicing Jew before Jesus stoped him on the road to Damascus (i think it was Damascus). Thanks

No, Paul was a Jew, and a persecutor of the Church (Acts 8:1-3). Paul was converted in Acts 9.

 

[WailingWall]

No, Paul was a Jew, and a persecutor of the Church (Acts 8:1-3). Paul was converted in Acts 9.

Thanks for the correction Cheat. My hand wasnt typing what my head was thinkin. Ok, ill try again. Paul after the event on the road to Damascus did keep Gods sabbath

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

I can find no scriptures finding Paul keeping a day of rest on a sunday. Can you

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I can find no scriptures finding Paul keeping a day of rest on a sunday.

Where is even Saturday thru Sunday even mentioned in the Bible? What if the 7th day in Genesis was on a Tuesday

1 And the heavens and the land are being finished and all hosts of them.
2 And 'Elohiym is finishing in Day, the Seventh, work of Him which He makes. And He is ceasing/shabath in day of the seventh from all of work of Him which He makes
3 And 'Elohiym is hallowing Day of the Seventh. And He is hallowing him, that in him He ceases/shabath from all work of Him which 'Elohiym creates, to make.
4 these generations /towl@dah of the heavens and the land, in to be creating them, in a day YHWH 'Elohiym to make land and heavens.

 

[Alethes]

Your right. You should walk everyday as a believer in Christ. Part of that walk is of course keeping His sabbath day that He says was created for all mankind (not only the Jews). If you do not keep His sabbath, again your right. You will pray. He will not hear. Your prayer will be an abomination to Him.

Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

I think there are a great many Christians who talk about keeping the Sabbath, but do not fully understand what the Sabbath was truly about. The Sabbath, which was a "ceremonial law," was given to Israel to keep as law. They were to set aside a certain day of the week to rest from all their labor. However, the Sabbath was only a shadaw which pictured the coming of the Messiah who would redeem Israel from their sins so they could enter into God's rest.

Christ came and fulfilled the ceremonial law of the Sabbath. It is through the finished work of Christ for our salvation that all (Jew and Gentile) who believe in Him, are born again of God's Spirit, and, therefore, have entered into this rest.

Hebrews 4:8-10:

8. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

Is it therefore necessary to keep the Sabbath? No, it is not. Christ, who is the Lord of the Sabbath, lives in every born-again believer (Colossians 1:27).

The rest, which God did on the 7th day when He had finished His work of creation prepared for man, is the rest Christ has given to us because of His finished work for our salvation. We have that rest now; however, it will come into full fruition at the return of Christ. All who are saved/born again of God's Spirit, will literally enter into the new heaven and earth, which is the original Paradise restored---God's perfect and eternal dwelling place with man.

God bless you.

 

[holo]

Hey Holo
Theres a church that was built in new england (still standing) somewhere by people escaping England around the time of the pilgrims. I believe they were called the quarto decimin. Not sure. Anyways they were sabbath keepers. Couple hundred years before the 7th day adventist came along. And im sure if i looked into it i would find sabbath keepers back to the time of Christ. Just as Paul kept Gods sabbath.

Do your really believe God doesn't hear my prayers, or the prayers of anybody else who doesn't observe the sabbath?

 

[holo]

Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Your point?

Deuteronomy 28:1
And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

Well, for one thing you don't keep the commandments yourself, and you don't even believe you're supposed to keep ALL the commandments, only ten of them. So why do you have a problem with those who believe they're only supposed to keep nine of them (or with me, who believe that you're either under the entire law or none of the law)?

And why do you believe God's commandments to Israel, via Moses, in the old covenant, apply to you? Are you a jew in the old covenant yourself? I'm not.

 

[holo]

There are seven feasts of the Lord.. Check out Lev 23

They are called the Lord's Sabbaths.

Point being?

 

[holo]

The law of circumcisim has been abolished in Christ. Scripture below says the same thing.

1 Cor. 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

It also says we are to keep Gods 10 commandments

And circumcision isn't God's commandment? It doesn't say "the keeping of the ten commandments", but "the keeping of the commandments of God." Doesn't it matter to you what God says, when He says it, and who He's saying it to? How can you just pick and choose which commandments apply to you?

 

[TheCheat1]

Thanks for the correction Cheat. My hand wasnt typing what my head was thinkin. Ok, ill try again. Paul after the event on the road to Damascus did keep Gods sabbath

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

I can find no scriptures finding Paul keeping a day of rest on a sunday. Can you

That doesn't anywhere show Paul keeping the Sabbath, it shows him meeting with others to teach on the Sabbath! Two different things! This is a straw man argument. Paul says over and over again that he didn't keep the Law-- so that means he didn't keep the Sabbath!

Romans 1:10,
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day"

The Apostle John celebrated on the Lord's Day (Sunday), not Saturday.

 

[visionary]

And circumcision isn't God's commandment? It doesn't say "the keeping of the ten commandments", but "the keeping of the commandments of God." Doesn't it matter to you what God says, when He says it, and who He's saying it to? How can you just pick and choose which commandments apply to you?

It is clearly the Ten Commandments that are in the New Covenant... Remember they were on stone and now are to be placed in the heart.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why do I sense this going in circles again. The SDA's and Messianics have one view, most others have another view.
Time to step off the merry-go-round.
LLOJ unsubscribes.

Exodus 12:23 And YHWH passes to strike the Egyptians and He sees the blood on the lintel and on two of the jambs and YHWH passes over the portal and not He shall allow the ruiner/07843 shachath to come to houses of you to strike.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

 

[visionary]

That doesn't anywhere show Paul keeping the Sabbath, it shows him meeting with others to teach on the Sabbath! Two different things! This is a straw man argument. Paul says over and over again that he didn't keep the Law-- so that means he didn't keep the Sabbath!

Romans 1:10,
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day"

The Apostle John celebrated on the Lord's Day (Sunday), not Saturday.

You asked to be corrected..

Romans 1:10 is "Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you."

I believe you are speaking of Revelation 1:10

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"(Rosh HaShannah)

Which is talking about.... The great day of the Lord...

it is a Festival Shabbat or Shabbaton
Revelation 4

Scene in Heaven

1After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet (Rosh HaShannah)speaking with me, said, "Come up here, (Rosh HaShannah)and I will show you what must take place after these things." 2Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.(Rosh HaShahhah)

Let me explain a little about (Rosh HaShannah) the Feast of Trumpets. It is known as the Days of Awe, they are the first feasts in the fall. The books of life are opened and the judge does sit down to look them over. Each judgment decree is announced with a trumpet.

Revelation 5

The Book with Seven Seals

1I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.(Rosh HaShannah) 2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. 4Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it;
5and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."
6And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.(Rosh HaShannah) 8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song(Rosh HaShanah), saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

The Day of the Lord is = to the days of Awe which we celebrate as the High Holy Days all of them and even into Sukkot.

John was in a vision of what will be in the end days in all its powerful scenes and incredible truths.

 

[WailingWall]

Where is even Saturday thru Sunday even mentioned in the Bible? What if the 7th day in Genesis was on a Tuesday

The sabbath was, and still is Friday evening till Saturday evening. How do we know for sure. Thats the sabbath day that Jesus kept. He was without sin.

 

[WailingWall]

Why do I sense this going in circles again. The SDA's and Messianics have one view, most others have another view. Time to step off the merry-go-round.LLOJ unsubscribes.

When you say "most others" does this also mean the "many"? Hope ya stick around. Were just getting started

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Day of the Lord is = to the days of Awe which we celebrate as the High Holy Days all of them and even into Sukkot.

John was in a vision of what will be in the end days in all its powerful scenes and incredible truths.

Greetings. The way it sounds to the Jewish Sabbath keepers on this thread, those who keep the Jewish Sabbath will not bear the brunt of the "Stripes" us non-Sabbath keepers will get

Luke 12:48 The one yet no knowing doing yet worthy of blows/stripes/plhgwn <4127> shall be being lashed few. To every yet to whom was given much shall be being sought beside of him and to whom they-committed much more exceedingly they shall be asking him.

Reve 15:1 And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Messengers, seven, having blows/stripes/plhgaV <4127>, seven, the last, that in them is finished the fury of YHWH.

 

[WailingWall]

So how did this come about? How and why did Christians turn away from the written Word and keep the doctrines of man? We Christians were actually givin many warnings about these bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

Watch out for these roaring lions!

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

Beware of false these prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that “the many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES were there from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESSwith GREEDINESS.

Well, heres all these warnings from the new testament in one scripture. The Day of the Lord. Since “that day” has not yet arrived no one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel and does not apply to christians. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came and will return) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings

Hes a tricky little devil