Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[MamaZ]

Have you not read that where two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them?

 

[cyberlizard]

.

 

[mont974x4]

I love legalism. It reminds me to take an extra moment to remember what Christ freed us from.

 

[calluna]

so is this what you yourself do...... or are you just quoting scripture

I don't count as a Christian anyone who doesn't, or at least does so when possible.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I love legalism. It reminds me to take an extra moment to remember what Christ freed us from.

First for the Jew than Us.

I am more than happy to come to their Messiah/Redeemer to be Saved.

Col 2:14 Out-rubbing/exaleiyaV <1813> the down of us, handwriting, to the decrees/dogmasin <1378> which was hostile to us and it has taken away out of the midst, toward-nailing it to the stauros.

Reve 21:4 And He shall be out-rubbing/exaleiyei <1813> every tear out of the eyes of them, and the death not shall be still, neither mourning neither clamor neither misery, not it shall be still, that the former things pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[cyberlizard]

I don't count as a Christian anyone who doesn't, or at least does so when possible.

if you're in the UK, you're more than welcome to come round to my house and share some bread and wine. You are even more welcome to come round on friday evening when we have a houseful. My wife bakes a classical challah bread (often with bits of fruit in) and we are never (and i mean never) short of bottles of rioja (though last week we had a chardonnay - white wine - very unusual).

I like red wines, particularly spanish ones.

buyt seriously if you are in the UK, or ever find yourself here in my small part, you are more than welcome to come to my house and share in my legalism. There is real food too (but as you can guess clean foods only).

Steve

p.s. in essentials unity, in everything else, charity.

If i have offended anyone I apologise, I can get quite worked up discussing things that really interest me.

p.p.s. for littlelamb, technically I am not messianic. I keep shabbat, observe the dietary laws and remember the festivals, I also attend a congregation of fellow charismatics on sunday mornings, but for me, the sabbath is my day of rest.

let me close with a prayer we (and most jews) pray every friday evening, feel free to amen it at the end if you agree

"the children of Israel shall keep the shabbat, observing it throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever. for in six days HaShem made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.

And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one shabbat to another, all flesh shall come and worship before me, says HaShem.

Blessed are You, HaShem our God and God of our fathers. God of Abraham God of Isaac and God of Jacob. The great and might and awesome God, the most high God, who bestows grace and creates all and remembers the kindnesses of the fathers and brings redemption to their children's children, for His name's sake with love.

O King, helper, saviour and shield, blessed are you HaShem, shield of Abraham, You o Lord are mighty forever. You raise the dead, you are mighty to save.....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

if you're in the UK, you're more than welcome to come round to my house and share some bread and wine. You are even more welcome to come round on friday evening when we have a houseful. My wife bakes a classical challah bread (often with bits of fruit in) and we are never (and i mean never) short of bottles of rioja (though last week we had a chardonnay - white wine - very unusual).

Do you obey the food laws of Leviticus given thru Moses. Another words does your religion allow you to eat pork products or seafood products like squid, oyters and such on the Sabbath or any other day? Did you say whether you were Messianic or not?

And what is your take on this passage I quoted in an earlier post? I and a lot of others view this as fulfilled on the OC Jews. Thoughts

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 "Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath.

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

....The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country,.................

 

[calluna]

if you're in the UK, you're more than welcome to come round to my house and share some bread and wine.

Jesus spoke of eating his body and drinking his blood as essential well before the Last Supper, so, as cannibalism is obviously nonsensical, the metaphorical sense of applying the meaning of the cross in daily life is primary, and the reminder of physically eating and drinking secondary, and indeed many Christians put little emphasis on it. The important factor is the realisation that, through Jesus, one is forgiven, and that everyone else is loved by God, too.

But this thread is about the Sabbath, and Moses did not command that as a day of meeting, so the association of worship services with the word 'sabbath' of people calling themselves Christians has no real justification. It is just an excuse for meeting briefly, without much conversation, once every seven days. That does not seem to me to be the basis for any sort of useful social development, even in secular pursuits. These people put much emphasis on worship, but the New Testament hardly ever mentions it. The meetings of real Christians are characterised by full participation by all, by personal interaction, sharing of experiences among people one knows well and trusts, a type of event light years from the 'services' of others. As someone else wrote, it needs only two or three to make a church, and a very great deal can be quickly done by God for the individuals in such a church that a mega-church might never achieve.

 

[cyberlizard]

you'd be surprised how quickly you get to know people over a meal (not to mention the times we meet in the week)....

what i said about foods, was that we only eat clean foods (you know the clean/unclean food divide existed before the law even in noah's day). The kashrut rules are not actually biblical, they are rabbinic.

in the above post, full paricipation meetings are an excellent idea, it is just a shame that the bulk of the church has not put into practice the priesthood of all believers. Can you imagine the spiritual seismic shift that would make. I read a book on this many years ago called 1700 years, by jim rutz and this altered a lot of what it means for me 'to do church'. Church is not something we go to, it is something we are.

for me observance (as far as possible) of Torah is not a bind, it is not a curse (though not being able to observe it is), and it shows me what a sinner i am.

Steve

 

[mont974x4]

There are no sabbath or dietary laws that apply to the NT church

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

in the above post, full paricipation meetings are an excellent idea, it is just a shame that the bulk of the church has not put into practice the priesthood of all believers.

Hi. We are the new Spiritual priesthood on the order of Melchizedek, not Levi. Ya ever study on that mysterious character in the OT/OC?
You might enjoy this study a Christian did on him.

Genesis 14:18 Now Malkiy-Tsedeq, king of Shalem, had brought forth bread and wine,--he being Priest of 'El-Most-High/'Elyown. 19 And he blessed him, and said, "blessed be Abram of 'El-most-high/'Elyown, possessor of heaven and land 20 And blessed be 'El-most-high/'elyown, who hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand". And he gave him a tenth of all.

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198>, King of Salem/salhm <4532>, Priest/iereuV <2409 of the GOD of the most-high/uyistou <5310>, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him.
12 For being changed the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Hi. I have a question. Why did Jesus come to the Judeans and Lost Sheep of Israel for?
Look at Reve 14:11 for example.

These could symbolically be viewed as OC Israelites under the Law not keeping the Whole Law because they have not entered the Sabbath rest of Jesus.

[I may start a thread on this]. Thoughts?

Matthew 11:29 Take! My yoke upon ye, and be learning from Me. That meek am-I and humble to the heart, and ye shall find be finding Rest/anapausin <372> to thine souls;

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest/anapausin <372> day and night [Hebrews 4:3]

Because it was the appointed time for the Jews to accept him. Jesus began his ministry in the last week of the 70 week prophecytime and . He went to the lost sheep because that was their it was coming to an end. Even after he ascended he told he disciples to go to the lost sheep of Israel. After steven was stoned in 34AD the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles by Paul.

 

[calluna]

you'd be surprised how quickly you get to know people over a meal

I would? I'm not a teenager, you know. But there is no need to eat, or even have a coffee/tea.

(not to mention the times we meet in the week).

But do you share Christian fellowship? Is Jesus the Messiah?

what i said about foods, was that we only eat clean foods

I don't think you do. I don't think you'd want to stay long in my church, and maybe you wouldn't ask me to dinner more than once.

 

[cyberlizard]

I would? I'm not a teenager, you know. But there is no need to eat, or even have a coffee/tea.

i could not guess how old you are, you details give nothing away. There is always room for food, so much for the love feasts....


But do you share Christian fellowship? Is Jesus the Messiah?

of course Jesus is Messiah, why would he not be?


I don't think you do. I don't think you'd want to stay long in my church, and maybe you wouldn't ask me to dinner more than once.

what's wrong with your church that I would feel so uncomfortable.... you don't all have lurgy do you?


Steve

 

[calluna]

of course Jesus is Messiah

Why kosher, then?

 

[stone]

kosher?

 

[mont974x4]

kosher?

basically clean vs unclean food, although "kosher" is abit more indepth than that.

 

[stone]

Well, just so you know, Jesus was NOT kosher.

Kosher is a word invented by rabbinical jews. What is written in the torah and what is written in the Talmud, are two different things. One is man made, the other is from god.

 

[mont974x4]

well, some people are happy in their religion. All we can do is tell the truth and let God do the work.

 

[stone]

Jesus rebuked satan with the words, "it is written" as will I.