Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[LittleLambofJesus]

calluna post #97 If you really believe that, go out and kill someone every week for the rest of your life, and see where that gets you when Christ returns.

Why would he have to wait for that? That could be another 2000yrs down the road

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things/toutwn <5130>, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

 

[calluna]

calluna post #97 If you really believe that, go out and kill someone every week for the rest of your life, and see where that gets you when Christ returns.

Thanks, Thomas. Two questions, if that's ok.

a) Did you have to read the Bible to realise that murder is wrong?

b) Why 'every week'? Is this an attempt to push the weekly sabbath notion? You do realise that nobody has to have a seven-day week, or a week at all?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

That appears to be a key word. So can the Jews/OC Hebrew Israelites keep both the Commandments and believe unto YHWH but by not also have the Faith of Jesus and still be saved?

No. All of mankind is saved by grace through faith and not by nationality. God is no respecter of persons.

Who would you say is being Scripturally symbolized in Reve 14:11? Or I could make a thread on it if ya like. Thoughts.

The saints are the saints with no respect to nationality. If anyman be Christ he is Abraham's seed. So the saints are all of those who are heaven bound.

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

I just don't think i agree with you interpretation of that text. The parable had nothing to do with people in the old covenant versus people in the new.

How do you view this "Rest" in this verse? Just curious.

Reve 14:11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest Day and Night.

Not relating to the Sabbath rest. If you are tormented day and night you will have no relief.

 

[stone]

calluna,

is that sarcasm?

 

[calluna]

calluna,

is that sarcasm?

Look, stone, you can read what you wrote!

 

[stone]

so it is sarcasm.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not relating to the Sabbath rest. If you are tormented day and night you will have no relief.

How do you know? Perhaps the Jews would see it that way as after all most of the OC and NC is about them. Who is YHWH speaking about in Hosea 13:14 and remember JESUS came to them FIRST?

Hosea 13:14 "From hand of Sh@'owl I shall release/rescue/06299 padah them; from Death I shall Redeem/01350 ga'al them. Where plagues of you Death?. Where sting of you Sheol? Regret shall be hidden from My eyes.

Revelation 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst purchase/hgorasaV <59> Us to God in Thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation

 

[calluna]

so it is sarcasm.

Does anyone know what stone is talking about, and why? I think his quote function must have stopped working.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

How do you know? Perhaps the Jews would see it that way as after all most of the OC and NC is about them. Who is YHWH speaking about in Hosea 13:14 and remember JESUS came to them FIRST?

Hosea 13:14 "From hand of Sh@'owl I shall release/rescue/06299 padah them; from Death I shall Redeem/01350 ga'al them. Where plagues of you Death?. Where sting of you Sheol? Regret shall be hidden from My eyes.

Revelation 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst purchase/hgorasaV <59> Us to God in Thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation

Revelation 14:12 is not about the Jews but the saints. Jesus went to the Jews first because of the 70 week prophecy. The Jews did not fulfill what they were supposed to in the appointed time because they rejected Jesus and thus the message was taken to the Gentiles. The focus in Revelation is not the jews. God's people are not characteristed by nationality but by acceptance of him.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Does anyone know what stone is talking about, and why? I think his quote function must have stopped working.

I think I understand. When you said "thanks Thomas" it seemed sarcastic. Like you don't really mean thanks at all

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

What I want to know is how can a Christian desecrate the Jewish Sabbath Only Orthodox Jews would view us doing it it seems.

LLOJ [confused as ever on this]

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 "Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath.

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country,

 

[calluna]

I think I understand. When you said "thanks Thomas" it seemed sarcastic. Like you don't really mean thanks at all

If that is the impression Thomas got, I apologise. I did add a smiley button, and I was just taking it in fun, not sarcasm. After all, I don't suppose he really meant me to go out and kill someone every week for the rest of my life!

Thanks for posting. No sarcasm intended!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What I want to know is how can a Christian desecrate the Jewish Sabbath Only Orthodox Jews would view us doing it it seems.

LLOJ [confused as ever on this]

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 "Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath.

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country,

Why is it a Jewish Sabbath. The Sabbath was made when not a single Jew was on the earth. Salvation was supposed to come to the earth through the jewish nation. Meaning that if anyone was to be counted among God's people they would have to keep the same sabbath. But since God's people are no longer the Jews does that mean that the Sabbath stops with them. Since God's people consist of anyone who accepts Christ then doesn't God still want his people to keep the Sabbath.

The only reason that it is termed the Jewish Sabbath was because only the jews kept it. But only the Jews were God's chosen people. The Jews as a nation are no longer God's chosen people so does that mean that everything the jews used to do ends there or do they live on to God's modern people.Of course sacrifices and ceremonial ordinances were fulfilled in Christ and the jews didn't realize this because they rejected Jesus.

My whole point is that the Sabbath was not for the Jews but for God's chosen people who was once the Jews, but now is God's chosen people consist of any man who accepts Christ so the Sabbath is always for God's chosen.

 

[ThomasDa]

calluna: I take no offence.

No, I don't expect you to go out and kill someone every week.
But rejection of God's Sabbath will gain the same wage.
If I were in your position I would put all my past biases on a shelf and look seriously
at this subject.
This is something God does not take lightly and neither should we.

 

[calluna]

calluna: I take no offence.

Thank you.

No, I don't expect you to go out and kill someone every week.
But rejection of God's Sabbath will gain the same wage.

One cannot reject something that no longer exists. Murder and theft were wrong all around the world before Moses, but keeping a sabbath was not. Neither was failing to sacrifice bulls, goats etc. Keeping a sabbath applied to one tiny nation for a thousand years, and then was gone forever at the crucifixion. The seventh-day sabbath is history, a shadow of the true sabbath, which is the whole Christian life. That must be kept holy, every day, all day.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

One cannot reject something that no longer exists. Murder and theft were wrong all around the world before Moses, but keeping a sabbath was not. Neither was failing to sacrifice bulls, goats etc.

Keeping a sabbath applied to one tiny nation for a thousand years, and then was gone forever at the crucifixion.

Is that so?
Then why was it Paul's custom or manner to be in the synagogue on Sabbath?

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Seems like the Sabbath was alive and well. And additionally Jesus expected for the Sabbath to be kept after his crucifixion. Speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in 70AD he said,

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

If Jesus didn't care about Sabbath observance after his death then why did he tell them this. Its obvious he cares.

The seventh-day sabbath is history, a shadow of the true sabbath, which is the whole Christian life. That must be kept holy, every day, all day.

This sounds nice but it is unbiblical. The bible doesn't say that. The seventh day Sabbath was not a shadow of anything. The ceremonial sabbaths and high holy days were.

 

[calluna]

One cannot reject something that no longer exists. Murder and theft were wrong all around the world before Moses, but keeping a sabbath was not. Neither was failing to sacrifice bulls, goats etc.

The seventh day Sabbath was not a shadow of anything.

It was a shadow of the rest from works that Christians enter through faith. Even while Moses gave the Law, God provided that broad hint that salvation was to be through faith. The Israelites were never to forget Abraham, who is forgotten far too often today.

'If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; because anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, be eager to enter that rest, so that no-one will fall by following their example of disobedience.' Hebrews 4:8-11​

 

[BrightCandle]

It was a shadow of the rest from works that Christians enter through faith. Even while Moses gave the Law, God provided that broad hint that salvation was to be through faith. The Israelites were never to forget Abraham, who is forgotten far too often today.

'If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; because anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, be eager to enter that rest, so that no-one will fall by following their example of disobedience.' Hebrews 4:8-11​

When you cease from your secular work on the 7th day that is powerful reminder in this world of frenetic work and stress that we are indeed saved by faith in Jesus. The way most modern Christian keep Sunday does not have that type of depth and meaning to it. Also, you must look at the 6,000 year history of the Sabbath to gain perspective, it was created by Jesus on the 7th day of the creation week, and then again wrote in stone by the finger of God during the time of Moses, and then again when Jesus came to earth as the Son of Man, he kept it faithfully all of his life as an example for us, and even kept it in the grave, by resting from the work of salvation!

 

[calluna]

When you cease from your secular work on the 7th day that is powerful reminder in this world of frenetic work and stress that we are indeed saved by faith in Jesus.

Hardly- most people take not one, but two days off work! And the seven day week in the West is not of divine origin. It is not necessary. It may have been deliberately engineered by the Roman Empire to facilitate false Christianity. It has much more affinity with circumcising Jews than Christians, and associations with paganism.

The way most modern Christian keep Sunday does not have that type of depth and meaning to it. Also, you must look at the 6,000 year history of the Sabbath

1300 years, for about 0.01% of the world population, at a rough guess.

to gain perspective, it was created by Jesus on the 7th day of the creation week

Only for God, not for man.

 

[ticker]

Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

Woo-hoo! It's the weekend! Time to desecrate, everyone!


EDIT: Oops I forgot...there's nothing sacred anymore about the Sabbath for Christians anyways! Oh well. Guess I'll just have to miss out on the desecration.