- Nov 21, 2008
- 53,404
- 11,943
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
And right there - the case can be made that you are not following the post sequence.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Christians are not commanded to observe the seventh day.
- Thread starter MoreCoffee
- Start date
And right there - the case can be made that you are not following the post sequence.
- Nov 21, 2008
- 53,404
- 11,943
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
Rom 14:5
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
That is the Lev 23 days -- annual days of observance.
meanwhile Paul and other NT writers - as well as OT writers also speak to this subject.
====================================================
The reason that long list of (Catholic included) THEY are in such agreement is that the Bible says this...
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"
10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of God Mark 7:6-13
NT Scripture James 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".
Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3
==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
Upvote
0
- Nov 21, 2008
- 53,404
- 11,943
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
Unless Christians are part of the "Saints" the "People of God" or "mankind"
As for gentiles - even in the OT they are to keep the TEN Commandments and the Sabbath itself - even by your own church standards.
and of course the Bible
======================================
Sabbath for gentiles even in OT.
Isaiah 56 says it is for gentiles.
How blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who takes hold of it;
Who keeps from profaning the sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.
3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
The Lord will surely separate me from His people.
Nor let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus says the Lord,
To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial,
And a name better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.
6 Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Mark 2:27 the Sabbath "MADE for Mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath"
Mark 2:28 "The SON of Man is LORD of the Sabbath"
Is 58:14 The Sabbath is the "Holy day of the LORD"
Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath seventh day is made a Holy day for all mankind "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."
Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to bow down" -- true even after the cross and at the time of the "New heavens and New Earth" of Rev 21.
Other than that - no day is specified in either OT or NT as the "Lord's Day".
That the Lord's Day as given by God in the Bible was the Sabbath - the seventh day -- is admitted to even by the following RC commentary on the post Vatican-II Baltimore Catechism
===========================
( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lords Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lords Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lords Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lords Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lords Day on the say-so of the catholic church
"Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7. as part of the Rev 14:6 "Everlasting Gospel to preach to the whole world". As viewed by the "Saints who keep the Commandments of God AND faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And Is 66:23 - speaking even of eternity and the "New Heavens and New Earth" says - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down and worship"
Ex 20:8-11 "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... SIX Days shall you labor ...
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So yes -- "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7
Upvote
0
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,860
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
Pardon my ruthless cutting of your posts. Having said that ...
The OT is not on the table for debate on this matter. This thread is about Christians.
Upvote
0
- Nov 21, 2008
- 53,404
- 11,943
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
Glad to see that no one is trying to delete the OT text since the NT saints called it "the Word of God" and "Scripture" and "The Holy Spirit says" Heb 3.
So then using BOTH the OT and the NT text "of scripture" we have ...
=====================
Christians are part of the "Saints" the "People of God" or "mankind"
As for gentiles - even in the OT they are to keep the TEN Commandments and the Sabbath itself - even by your own church standards.
and of course the Bible
======================================
Sabbath for gentiles even in OT.
Isaiah 56 says it is for gentiles.
How blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who takes hold of it;
Who keeps from profaning the sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.
3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
The Lord will surely separate me from His people.
Nor let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus says the Lord,
To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial,
And a name better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.
6 Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Mark 2:27 the Sabbath "MADE for Mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath"
Mark 2:28 "The SON of Man is LORD of the Sabbath"
Is 58:14 The Sabbath is the "Holy day of the LORD"
Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath seventh day is made a Holy day for all mankind "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."
Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to bow down" -- true even after the cross and at the time of the "New heavens and New Earth" of Rev 21.
Other than that - no day is specified in either OT or NT as the "Lord's Day".
That the Lord's Day as given by God in the Bible was the Sabbath - the seventh day -- is admitted to even by the following RC commentary on the post Vatican-II Baltimore Catechism
===========================
( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lords Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lords Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lords Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lords Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lords Day on the say-so of the catholic church
"Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7. as part of the Rev 14:6 "Everlasting Gospel to preach to the whole world". As viewed by the "Saints who keep the Commandments of God AND faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And Is 66:23 - speaking even of eternity and the "New Heavens and New Earth" says - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down and worship"
Ex 20:8-11 "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... SIX Days shall you labor ...
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So yes -- "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7
Upvote
0
- Nov 21, 2008
- 53,404
- 11,943
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
It would be interesting to find at least one more Catholic expressing this view on this part of the board - rather than saving it for other parts of the board.
( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church
( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church
Upvote
0
Yes, and in accordance with Paul of Tarsus' teaching we will allow you to be convinced in your own mind.
Rom 14:5
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
NASU
And we will not condemn you for your alternate choice for your worship pracitices.
Rom 14:10
10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
NASU
Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
NASU
Upvote
0
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,860
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
That is correct, just as no christian tries to walk in the provisions of the old covenant to gain acceptance with God or to keep acceptance with God.
Upvote
0
Your thumper passage only applies to a select few gentiles who are recognized as Israeli born in the land upon compliance to the requirements of the law. It does not apply to all gentiles or the whole world.
Upvote
0
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,860
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
Merry Christmas!
You forgot the commandments of EGW.
I rested today, Christmas day. It is Thursday ...
Upvote
0
Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
If the Sabbath was only given to the Jews then can a non Jew actually keep it?
Upvote
0
Yes because keeping the law is a requirement only for an Israeli. To obligate one's self to the covenant of the law circumcision is required of the male. Without circumcision the Israeli loses both his country and God.
Upvote
0
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,860
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
Keeping the seventh day would make a person a seventh day keeper. It may also make a person believe error and teach it too.
Upvote
0
BornAgainBrian
The Honourable Schoolboy
- Dec 23, 2014
- 1,134
- 22
- 41
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
A person can choose to keep the Sabbath. If he is convinced in his own mind then he should keep it. We who do not keep it should not just him who does, nor should he judge us who do not. Romans 14 is rather clear on this, at least as I read it.
Upvote
0
Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
It is one thing to be convince you "should" keep it as a personal choice, but another to advocate it is a salvic thing and demand others keep it. For the sake of debate here the "optional" keeping of it lands on deaf ears.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
