Christians are not commanded to observe the seventh day.

[MoreCoffee]

Some claim that all christians are commanded by God to keep the seventh day holy. That is not true.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Christians don't need to "keep" days holy they are by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within themselves "holy" all the time without any "keepage".

 

[BobRyan]

So then for those who read the Bible - we have Ex 20:8-11 by contrast to the OP

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[BobRyan]

Some things that even MC knows to be true ---


Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's Wednesday today where I live. It will be Saturday where I live when it is still Friday for a lot of people on this forum. Which hours are hallowed out of the 24 that make up a day. Are the 24 where I live the holy ones for the seventh day that I experience? If that is so why would all those chaps in Friday lands be doing their work as if the day were not hallowed?

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath - Saturday

[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]page 243[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

"nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church" [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
"we know that in the o.t it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]=====================================================================[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]As R.C Sproul and even the Baptist Confession of Faith proves the 4th commandment as given by God in the actual Bible - points to Saturday.

NONE of those authors goes around arguing that the Israel at Sinai - were all "keeping Sunday".

They all admit that the Bible Sabbath is the 7th day - Saturday and Sunday is the FIRST day of the week. Impossible to miss.

But beyond this - a recent video shows a Baptist Pastor agreeing with the Catholic Church claim that the 4th Commandment has been changed by man - and yet also agreeing with the Baptist Confession of Faith - not only about the change of the 4th commandment - but also the fact that the TEN commandments were given to mankind in Eden.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

So also does the Baptist Confession of Faith agree with this idea that the Bible Sabbath as given by God is not Sunday.

Quote:
22.7 As it is the law of nature that a portion of time by God's appointment should be set apart for the worship of God, so in his Word he has given a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all people in all ages. In particular he has appointed one day in seven as a Sabbath to be kept holy to him.1 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, but from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week which is called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Gen 2:3; Exo 20:8-11; Mar 2:27-28; Rev 1:10
(2) Joh 20:1; Act 2:1; 20:7; 1Co 16:1; Rev 1:10; Col 2:16-17 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

They admit that a CHANGE was made in what the BIBLE states to be the Sabbath day - Saturday. Almost every Baptist on this board today - knows that the Bible Sabbath is Saturday.

The Change was done via man-made tradition NOT a "Commandment" in either NT or OT to "make the change of God's Law".

Rather we have Mark 7 flatly forbidding man-made-traditions the privilege of editing the Law of God.


Each time you seek to make a point here - it is found to be half-true.

Why do that as if you don't think I "will notice"???

We both know that I will indeed notice and will point to the flaw in your argument.

--- at the risk of repeating myself -- we do this "again" only this time with Spurgeon's own edit of the Baptist Confession of Faith and the fact that in the actual BIBLE the Sabbath is the SEVENTH day of the week - Saturday not the FIRST day of the week - SUNDAY.

Quote:
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]


=================================

My guess is that if pastor Reggie also saw this next video giving RCC sources on the non-Bible "Change" to the Sabbath - he would feel somewhat confirmed in his idea that man-made tradition should not be allowed to replace the Word of God.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]========================================================[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]as “The Catholic church fully endorses the Sabbath commandment as edited by the Catholic Church" vs "the Catholic church fully endorsed the Sabbath commandment as worded by God at Sinai"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] . [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(short summary)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]General summary of the Catholic position on this topic appears to be something like this --
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Point 7 – Section 22 Baptist Confession of Faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished. [/FONT]


West Minster Confession of Faith

[FONT=&quot]21.7. As it is of the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men in all ages, he has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord's Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

This thread is on the one point out of 7 - where we actually differ.

Taken at face value - a thread discussing the Ten Commandments can not be limited to just SDAs - and I have proof.


===================== from this link
#1

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================

 

[Thekla]

Hi, BobRyan

how do you keep Sabbath ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's Wednesday today where I live. It will be Saturday where I live when it is still Friday for a lot of people on this forum. Which hours are hallowed out of the 24 that make up a day. Are the 24 where I live the holy ones for the seventh day that I experience? If that is so why would all those chaps in Friday lands be doing their work as if the day were not hallowed?

I am still wondering which part of the 24 hours of my Friday/Saturday is hallowed objectively speaking.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi, BobRyan

how do you keep Sabbath ?

How did Adam and Eve keep it?

 

[BobRyan]

All the sources listed in this post #6

Agree that the Sabbath commandment as God gave it - was Saturday - the seventh day of the week.

And they admit that what we call Sunday is the "First day of the week' -- "week day 1"

(And that includes the Catholic sources listed)

Pretty hard to miss that point.

 

[Thekla]

How did Adam and Eve keep it?

It's not described in the Scriptures; it is described that God rested.

So again, how do you observe the Sabbath particularly (and Scripturally) ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Seems to me that Genesis chapter two verses one, two, and three has God bless and hallow the seventh day in the vicinity of Eden. If it is a twenty four hour period that God hallowed it would be twenty four hours in Eden. In Hawaii, and New Zealand the evening and the morning would be at very different times, possibly outside of the hours of the seventh day in Eden.

Oh yes, and nothing in Genesis chapter two verses one through three say anything about a weekly cycle ended with a seventh day each week and each seventh day being hallowed by God. The passage says that one and exactly one day was hallowed. That's not good for the seventh day advocates' case is it?

 

[listed]

How did Adam and Eve keep it?

They did not keep the Sabbath. It is impossible with the explanation of Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

Seems to me that Genesis chapter two verses one, two, and three has God bless and hallow the seventh day in the vicinity of Eden. If it is a twenty four hour period that God hallowed it would be twenty four hours in Eden. In Hawaii, and New Zealand the evening and the morning would be at very different times, possibly outside of the hours of the seventh day in Eden.

Apparently Christ knew what day it was... when He kept it.

And in Ex 16 God "still knew" when He said "tomorrow is the Sabbath"

So they had that whole - manna thing reminding them exactly what day it was.

And now - we have the Jews and the Christians both in agreement on what day is the 7th and what day is the first.

No wonder all those sources -- Catholic, Baptist, Westminster, R.C Sproul agree on Sunday as week-day one and Saturday as the seventh day.

That can't be good for those who want to insert confusion into Bible topics that are obvious and simple even across denominations.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It's not described in the Scriptures; it is described that God rested.

So again, how do you observe the Sabbath particularly (and Scripturally) ?

Adam and Eve lived before the fall - and kept Sabbath as their first day of rest. Sanctified and made a holy day - by God our Creator. (The Triune Godhead - let "us" make man in OUR own image). and by "man" is meant - mankind.

Ex 20:8-11 says to rest.

Lev 23:1-3 says to worship.

Is 66:23 says that "All mankind" is to come before God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" and bow down for worship.

Is 58:14 says it is not a day for secular talk or secular work, or secular entertainment.

Christ said it is a day to help those who are sick and to spread the Gospel.

I think the RCC pretty much agrees with all the above -- so kind of interesting.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of Catholics and the Sabbath ---

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter [/FONT]

========================== Dies Domini begin
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."[/FONT]

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

You provide no one example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from your own CCC. All you have done in the above post is ask if I have read - D. D. in its entirety.???

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT]

 

[MoreCoffee]

Seems to me that Genesis chapter two verses one, two, and three has God bless and hallow the seventh day in the vicinity of Eden. If it is a twenty four hour period that God hallowed it would be twenty four hours in Eden. In Hawaii, and New Zealand the evening and the morning would be at very different times, possibly outside of the hours of the seventh day in Eden.

Oh yes, and nothing in Genesis chapter two verses one through three say anything about a weekly cycle ended with a seventh day each week and each seventh day being hallowed by God. The passage says that one and exactly one day was hallowed. That's not good for the seventh day advocates' case is it?

Apparently Christ knew what day it was... when He kept it.

That'd be because the Lord was "made under the Law" (gal 4:4). The Law came 430 years after Abraham (Gal 3:17). Therefore the Lord lived according to a Law that even Abraham did not know. Adam came many years before Abraham so Adam didn't know the Law.

...
in Christ,

Bob

And we still have the question on the table.

Since God hallowed one day in Genesis chapter two and not one day in seven in an endless cycle of seven day weeks, was the hallowed day the day as experienced in Eden where Adam lived or was it a day in New Zealand or in Hawaii?

 

[listed]

Apparently Christ knew what day it was... when He kept it.

And in Ex 16 God "still knew" when He said "tomorrow is the Sabbath"

So they had that whole - manna thing reminding them exactly what day it was.

And now - we have the Jews and the Christians both in agreement on what day is the 7th and what day is the first.

No wonder all those sources -- Catholic, Baptist, Westminster, R.C Sproul agree on Sunday as week-day one and Saturday as the seventh day.

That can't be good for those who want to insert confusion into Bible topics that are obvious and simple even across denominations.

in Christ,

Bob

The confusion you talk about fits what you do to a "T".

 

[listed]

Adam and Eve lived before the fall - and kept Sabbath as their first day of rest. Sanctified and made a holy day - by God our Creator. (The Triune Godhead - let "us" make man in OUR own image). and by "man" is meant - mankind.

Ex 20:8-11 says to rest.

Lev 23:1-3 says to worship.

Is 66:23 says that "All mankind" is to come before God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" and bow down for worship.

Is 58:14 says it is not a day for secular talk or secular work, or secular entertainment.

Christ said it is a day to help those who are sick and to spread the Gospel.

I think the RCC pretty much agrees with all the above -- so kind of interesting.

in Christ,

Bob

There is no such evidence to be found in Holy Writ. Moses says you are trying to pull our leg.