Christians and Sinning

[DarthNeo]

Two points of view, can anyone explain?

1) What makes it possible for a Christian to sin?

2) What makes it possible for a Christian to not sin?

The new man cannot sin, but the the old man can. The constant battle within ourselves...

 

[JIMINZ]

The new man cannot sin, but the the old man can. The constant battle within ourselves...

Hasn't anyone ever told you, the old man is dead?

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Rom 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Be Blessed

 

[DarthNeo]

Hasn't anyone ever told you, the old man is dead?

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Rom 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Be Blessed

Then why does Paul say the things he says...? Not I that sins, but sin that dwells within me...

 

[JIMINZ]

The only One who never sinned in thought or deed... intentionally or unintentionally is Jesus Christ.
As believers..if we are seeking to please the Lord in all we do we don't want to keep on sinning against Him.But unfortunately until we go to be with the Lord, we're still living in a fallen world system of unbelief, we are still in inhabiting and expressing ourselves with these corruptible bodies, and the devil and his army of fallen rebellious angels haven't been put away yet. So naturally, try as we may, we're still going to sin.But if we believe what God's Word tell's us in 2 Corinthians 5:21:

God had Christ, who was sinless, take our sin so that we might receive God's approval through him.( GOD's WORD Translation)


He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.(NASB 1977)


For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(Jubilee Bible 2000)


For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(King James)

So we don't have to beat ourselves up when we do sin because according to God's Word, we are accepted on the basis of what Jesus has done for us.That doesn't mean that we can live in a sinful lifestyle and think everything is OK.That isn't Christianity.But as a believer, if we are seeking to follow the Lord and we sin which we will, then we simply acknowledge it or confess it to the Lord and move on.The book of Romans has a lot to say about this.Hope this helps.God bless.

Gods' Word says.

Rom. 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom. 6:2
How shall we,
that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom. 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

The questions then remain, are you therefore Dead in Christ, are you Born of God?

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Be Blessed

 

[DarthNeo]

Gods' Word says.

Rom. 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom. 6:2
How shall we,
that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom. 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

The questions then remain, are you therefore Dead in Christ, are you Born of God?

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Be Blessed

So are you telling me you NEVER look at a woman a bit TOO long and lust?

Are you saying you NEVER have a bit of pride?

Are you saying that you have NEVER looked at a material object and coveted a bit?

Are you saying that you have NEVER known to do good but didn't do it?

 

[JIMINZ]

Then why does Paul say the things he says...? Not I that sins, but sin that dwells within me...

One question first, do you ask this question because you cannot reconcile what the verses I posted say, with what Paul says, and you personally believe?

I'm not dodging your question.

Be Blessed

 

[Kenny'sID]

So then, how does a Believer Sin, when Believers are dead to the Law?

Here's how.

For one if someone twisted the Bible to say that our sin is no longer considered sin, and I chose to believe them because I desired to sin and that gave me away around any consequences. As a selfish, more about me than God, believer, to latch on to that and sin on that assumption, would in reality still leave my sin as sin since it was always a false assumption. So not only am I still sinning, but by pretending there can be no consequences, one of the very reasons I chose to believe that, I could and would now sin even more than I normally would because I enjoy it. That's one way, I as a believer sins, and probably a lot more than they normally would (the whole idea of it all.

Even worse, if I taught that to others, that they are no longer sinners even when they sin, and because of that they can now sin and not be held accountable. Then because we have like minded desires, they run with it as well, I'd call that sin on my part. Not to mention all the other resulting sin that due to the trickle down affect was commited because of what I believed, then taught.

Yeah, I think that should fall in line with how a believer such as myself, can sin a few ways. Not only that, I would consider them very bad sins because they could easily affect not only mine, but worse yet, the eternity of all those I convinced that was a fact.

 

[JIMINZ]

So are you telling me you NEVER look at a woman a bit TOO long and lust?

Are you saying you NEVER have a bit of pride?
Are you saying that you have NEVER looked at a material object and coveted a bit?
Are you saying that you have NEVER known to do good but didn't do it?

Lets take it slowly, and if you are really serious about the Truth of what Gods' Word really does say, if we take it from the beginning, with Gods Word as the authority, your questions will be answered.

But bombarding with questions, the subject changes, to more of a defense of what I believe, rather than what Gods' Word really says, and the whole point is totally lost.

The point being.
1) Do you know what you have received as a Believer in Jesus?
2) Do you know your position in Christ?
3) Do you understand your relationship NOW with God, and why?

Be Blessed

 

[JIMINZ]

Here's how.

For one if someone twisted the Bible to say that our sin is no longer considered sin, and I chose to believe them because I desired to sin and that gave me away around any consequences. As a selfish, more about me than God, believer, to latch on to that and sin on that assumption, would in reality still leave my sin as sin since it was always a false assumption. So not only am I still sinning, but by pretending there can be no consequences, one of the very reasons I chose to believe that, I could and would now sin even more than I normally would because I enjoy it. That's one way, I as a believer sins, and probably a lot more than they normally would (the whole idea of it all.

Even worse, if I taught that to others, that they are no longer sinners even when they sin, and because of that they can now sin and not be held accountable. Then because we have like minded desires, they run with it as well, I'd call that sin on my part. Not to mention all the other resulting sin that due to the trickle down affect was commited because of what I believed, then taught.

Yeah, I think that should fall in line with how a believer such as myself, can sin a few ways. Not only that, I would consider them very bad sins because they could easily affect not only mine, but worse yet, the eternity of all those I convinced that was a fact.

Rather than just railing against things you have no understanding of, first you should REFUTE what the Word of God has said, you can begin with the verses I posted and you are now speaking to.

Be Blessed

 

[DarthNeo]

Lets take it slowly, and if you are really serious about the Truth of what Gods' Word really does say, if we take it from the beginning, with Gods Word as the authority, your questions will be answered.

But bombarding with questions, the subject changes, to more of a defense of what I believe, rather than what Gods' Word really says, and the whole point is totally lost.

The point being.
1) Do you know what you have received as a Believer in Jesus?
2) Do you know your position in Christ?
3) Do you understand your relationship NOW with God, and why?

Be Blessed

Stop deflecting and answer the questions as asked, they are not that hard to understand...

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hasn't anyone ever told you, the old man is dead?

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Rom 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Be Blessed

So your position is that once a person has become a Christian they are no longer capable of sinning?

Ergo, it's not even that you believe Christians can stop sinning altogether, but that Christians are incapable of sin altogether.

Well that's easy enough to disprove. All you have to do is meet a Christian, find me a Christian, and I'll show you a sinner.

If that isn't your belief, then I'm curious as to the intent and meaning of what you're saying; if the old man is such that it is no longer around at all (which is what it seems like you're trying to say and trying to use those Scriptures to support) then it should follow that one who is in Christ, having received the new man, is no longer capable of sinning.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JIMINZ]

Stop deflecting and answer the questions as asked, they are not that hard to understand...

The statements you made in your first post, showed you lacked knowledge, I produced verses which gave you knowledge.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

 

[DarthNeo]

The statements you made in your first post, showed you lacked knowledge, I produced verses which gave you knowledge.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

You just showed arrogance and pride...SIN.

 

[JIMINZ]

So your position is that once a person has become a Christian they are no longer capable of sinning?

Ergo, it's not even that you believe Christians can stop sinning altogether, but that Christians are incapable of sin altogether.

Well that's easy enough to disprove. All you have to do is meet a Christian, find me a Christian, and I'll show you a sinner.

If that isn't your belief, then I'm curious as to the intent and meaning of what you're saying; if the old man is such that it is no longer around at all (which is what it seems like you're trying to say and trying to use those Scriptures to support) then it should follow that one who is in Christ, having received the new man, is no longer capable of sinning.

-CryptoLutheran

All I have done is produce some verses which categorically say, the Old Man dies when a person becomes a Believer.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

 

[ViaCrucis]

All I have done is produce some verses which categorically say, the Old Man dies when a person becomes a Believer.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

How about you explain your position clearly, and then explain how your proof texts back up that position.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kenny'sID]

The statements you made in your first post, showed you lacked knowledge, I produced verses which gave you knowledge.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

Then all I have to do is say your posts lack knowledge, and mine show knowledge, something that is strictly my opinion, and then I don't have to answer to yours, but you still have to answer to or refute my post?

So, all said and done, are you saying we can all sin willy nilly, and as long as we're a believer, the sin will not be counted as sin? And please answer directly, I can't wait to get started.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You just showed arrogance and pride...SIN.

I think the point is, for him, it is not counted as sin because he as a believer cannot sin, as in he can but he cannot....that's clear?...right?

 

[JIMINZ]

How about you explain your position clearly, and then explain how your proof texts back up that position.

-CryptoLutheran

The position is as stated by use of Scripture.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

 

[JIMINZ]

Then all I have to do is say your posts lack knowledge, and mine show knowledge, something that is strictly my opinion, and then I don't have to answer to yours, but you still have to answer to or refute my post?

So, all said and done, are you saying we can all sin willy nilly, and as long as we're a believer, the sin will not be counted as sin? And please answer directly, I can't wait to get started.

If your belief is, those verses are not true, Refute them.

Be Blessed

 

[ViaCrucis]

The position is as stated by use of Scripture

You seem to be avoiding giving an answer.

Let me know when you want to actually have a discussion.

-CryptoLutheran