Christians and masks: what am I missing?

[mama2one]

So if you’re fully vaccinated what are you worried about? If you trust the vaccine to do it’s job then you shouldn’t be worried and wearing masks.

the vaccine does it's job by preventing hospitalizations/deaths

I don't want to get sick, period
takes me a whole mos to get rid of a cold caught from kid

who knows how long it would take to clear covid
with fibromyalgia, no energy to fight any illness

 

[J Michael]

the vaccine does it's job by preventing hospitalizations/deaths

Except when it doesn't.

I don't want to get sick, period
takes me a whole mos to get rid of a cold caught from kid

who knows how long it would take to clear covid
with fibromyalgia, no energy to fight any illness

No one "wants" to get sick. Don't know what you do for yourself health-wise, but bolstering your immune system with sufficient levels of Vit. C, Vit. D-3, Zinc, quercetin, etc. Can help prevent illness and when illness does occur, can help you recover more rapidly--with or without fibromyalgia.

 

[Captain Ahab]

For me it is like the same situation as with the vaccine. The advocates of the no mask no service movement just like the hardcore vaccine pushers are just not the type of people whom I think I should be taking advice from or to be more precise taking orders from. I’ve seen it time and time again..coercion, self-righteousness, brow beating, threatening, anger, hate, shaming and guilt trip tactics, even calling for the destruction of those whom dare not conform with their feelings. This is what CULTS do. Such people, I will not have anything to do with conforming to their demands. When you resort to such tactics to achieve a desired outcome, it just screams to me, whatever it is you’re selling I would be a fool to buy. Such people they are slaves to the toxic media outlets who thrive off spreading fear and hysteria. Some of these outlets really need that ratings boost from what I hear. Fear sells. Thankfully I don’t own a tv or watch tv. Also, many of the staunchest advocates of the no mask no service movement as well as the mandatory vaccination movement, they are flamboyantly and proudly antichrist. I cannot in good conscience submit to the demands of such people.

On a very few occasions where it was absolutely required I put on a face diaper I played along only because I just wanted to live peaceably as the scriptures call for us to do and not create conflict, just get in do what I had to and get out. But my objective is to do my best to avoid such places to begin with and take my business elsewhere. I do not feel convicted for not wearing a face diaper everywhere I go. I trust God and His plan, not man and his plan. Nothing that these ‘experts’ and fearmongering propaganda outlets and politicians, or ‘anti-vaxxers’ or ‘anti-maskers’ do is going to thwart His plan nor pro-long anybody’s life by one second or decrease it by one second if it is not in accordance with His will. It is all in vain. One hundred percent of my trust has been placed on Him in regards to my health and that of those around me. Seems to be far more effective than the methods of those whom deny the Lord and rely solely on the wisdom (so-called) of man. Which is foolishness in the sight of God as it is written.

I am not ‘anti-mask‘ or ‘anti-vax’ because honestly I haven’t done the research needed to come to a conclusion or have a stance either way. I’m in no position to claim whether they are effective or not and I can’t just blindly go by what secular TV talking heads claim. Especially when they seem to be working to drive conflict between opposing sides. All I know is I am 100% anti the attitude and spirit of those who staunchly advocate the mask and vaccine mandates, so I can’t be on board with their movement it honestly feels like jumping aboard the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. I am not speaking on anything I’ve seen here but other places, there is a very nasty, self-righteous, and hate-filled spirit behind that movement. I know good and well I’d never resort to the tactics they do in attempt to get people to convert to Christianity. Those tactics would fail miserably. Such people often kid themselves by claiming that it is only because of ‘misinformation’ or ‘right wing propaganda’ or ‘conspiracy theories’ or Alex Jones or the bad orange scary man that not everyone is on board with their narrative. But no, it is their own behavior that has pushed me away. Like I say many of these hard core maskers and vaccine pushers they are proudly antichrist and mock God at every given opportunity. I want nothing to do with such people nor their ideologies, movements, or demands. All I can do is pray for them that God will have mercy on them as He has with me, and open their eyes. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, not the fear of covid.

 

[Job 33:6]

Except when it doesn't.

But of course they do. From the Texas DOH:

 

[parousia70]

For me it is like the same situation as with the vaccine. The advocates of the no mask no service movement just like the hardcore vaccine pushers are just not the type of people whom I think I should be taking advice from or to be more precise taking orders from... This is what CULTS do. Such people, I will not have anything to do with conforming to their demands.... Also, many of the staunchest advocates of the no mask no service movement as well as the mandatory vaccination movement, they are flamboyantly and proudly antichrist. I cannot in good conscience submit to the demands of such people.

Remember "No Shoes no shirt no service"?

That arose in the 60's as a way for businesses to keep out "Dirty Hippies".
For 200 years Businesses had no issue with serving shrtless, shoeless people, and now it's the norm.

Strangely I don't remember anyone railing against such a "Cultish" mandate, calling the proponents antichrist...

I can't go to the grocery store without pants on. Never have I been able to.
Strangley, again, I never once found that to be a restriction of my freedoms or an assault on my religious liberties by a gaggle of antichrists.

On a very few occasions where it was absolutely required I put on a face diaper I played along'

Yet every day you dutifully put on torso, groin and foot "diapers" before you leave the house, and you don't complain. Even though you wearing shirts, pants and shoes does nothing to protect anyone else from anything, or you from them. Yet you dutifully, happily, comply.

only because I just wanted to live peaceably as the scriptures call for us to do and not create conflict

Not only that but:
Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

I am not ‘anti-mask‘ or ‘anti-vax’

Neither are you anti Pants or anti Shoes apparently....

I’m in no position to claim whether they are effective or not and I can’t just blindly go by what secular TV talking heads claim.

Yet again, you dutifully comply with the same secular talking heads when it comes to pants and shirts when their efficacy is just as questionable, if not more so.... weird.

All I know is I am 100% anti the attitude and spirit of those who staunchly advocate the mask and vaccine mandates

Which puts you on which side of this?:
Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

 

[Laconia79]

SMH...okay covid is transferred through spit and mucus from sneezing and coughing, covid is in the spit and snot to be crude. The mask keeps your spit and your snot in the mask and not on the public. Medical Professionals for the last 100 years have been using them. Know one had a problem until someone told them they had to. Its about people not wanting to be told what to do. My toddler like trying to climb in the oven, I told him no, I smacked his but. Finally I baked a ham and the oven was hot, not enough to scar or blister but hot enough to shock which is what happened with my kid. He touched the hot oven and stepped back and puckered up his lips, he did it again then ran to me and started crying and he stopped touching the oven. Basically let people not were mask or take vaccines...But I do not want to hear them complaining when they or people the love get sick or die cause of it. If you want to ignore Millions of medical professionals and millions of scientist and listen to online conspiracy theorist with know medical degree go for it but if you want to be ignorant do not complain when bad stuff happens.

 

[Captain Ahab]

Remember "No Shoes no shirt no service"?

That arose in the 60's as a way for businesses to keep out "Dirty Hippies".
For 200 years Businesses had no issue with serving shrtless, shoeless people, and now it's the norm.

Strangely I don't remember anyone railing against such a "Cultish" mandate, calling the proponents antichrist...

I can't go to the grocery store without pants on. Never have I been able to.
Strangley, again, I never once found that to be a restriction of my freedoms.



Yet every day you dutifully put on torso, groin and foot "diapers" before you leave the house, and you don't complain. Even though wearing shirts, pants and shoes does nothing to protect anyone from anything. Yet you dutifully, happily, comply.



Not only that but:
Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.



Neither are you anti Pants or anti Shoes apparently....



Yet again, you dutifully comply with the same secular talking heads when it comes to pants and shirts.... weird.



Which puts you on which side of this?:
Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Apples and oranges. No valid comparison whatsoever between entering a store half nude to someone not wearing any face mask. Where I live, they aren’t required anywhere either. It is also biblical to be fully clothed while out in public. That is why I dutifully wear pants and shirts. Plus I don’t want anyone seeing me nude. I don’t need any ordinances from man to wear clothes. Has nothing to do with why I wear clothes. It is also what I was taught as a child, you wear clothes out in public..honor thy mother and father.

I also seriously doubt that 200 years ago there were half nude beatniks rolling on LSD roaming the streets, and I doubt shop keepers would want them in their place of business. Safe to say the average American most likely had more reverence for God’s word 200 years ago than in the 60’s when prayer was thrown out of the public schools, and Aleister Crowley’s ‘do what thou wilt’ philosophy became all the rage. So by that era some people needed some more encouragement to be Godly enough to fully clothe themselves while in public.

As for ‘resisting authorities’, I am not resisting authorities at all. There is no mask mandate in my areas set forth by authorities. But to go around without pants on would be in resistance to authorities. Resisting the sanctimonious TV news anchors, and everyday people who express hate and self-righteous anger to those who do not yield to their narrative does not equate to resisting authorities, as much as they would like to have authority over me. The authorities in my area have no mandates in place, and at this time no businesses I frequent require masks here either. So how am I ‘resisting authorities’? The random everyday people behind computer screens or TV propagandists who believe they know what is best for everyone and how to live their lives aren’t authorities. Having a twitter account, Facebook page, Instagram, forum membership, or other virtue signaling platform doesn’t make anyone an authority and they surely are not ordained by God to spread their anger, hatred, and contempt. If and when the Lord convicts me, then and only then will I be masking up. The wisdom of man is foolishness in the sight of God as it is written.

 

[RDKirk]

SMH...okay covid is transferred through spit and mucus from sneezing and coughing, covid is in the spit and snot to be crude. The mask keeps your spit and your snot in the mask and not on the public. Medical Professionals for the last 100 years have been using them. Know one had a problem until someone told them they had to. Its about people not wanting to be told what to do. My toddler like trying to climb in the oven, I told him no, I smacked his but. Finally I baked a ham and the oven was hot, not enough to scar or blister but hot enough to shock which is what happened with my kid. He touched the hot oven and stepped back and puckered up his lips, he did it again then ran to me and started crying and he stopped touching the oven. Basically let people not were mask or take vaccines...But I do not want to hear them complaining when they or people the love get sick or die cause of it. If you want to ignore Millions of medical professionals and millions of scientist and listen to online conspiracy theorist with know medical degree go for it but if you want to be ignorant do not complain when bad stuff happens.

One summer day when my son was nearly three, I decided to give him an understanding of "hot" and "cold." I filled one glass with very water, an identical glass with cold water, and had him touch each glass, calling each, as appropriate, "hot" or "cold."

His eyes lit up, and he ran over to the furnace vent, pointed at it, and said "Hot!"

I figured he'd bumped up against it at some point the previous winter, and totally remembered the sensation...but didn't have a word for it at the time.

 

[probinson]

when our state had a mask mandate, our case numbers went down to 27/100,000

now there is no mask mandate
our case numbers are up to over 1,000/100,000

what does that tell you?

The US just recorded over 1,000,000 cases of COVID in a single day. New York City accounts for approximately 10% of those cases (>110,000 cases), despite city-wide mask mandates and vaccine requirements.

What does that tell you?

 

[Captain Ahab]

The US just recorded over 1,000,000 cases of COVID in a single day. New York City accounts for approximately 10% of those cases (>110,000 cases), despite city-wide mask mandates and vaccine requirements.

What does that tell you?

That the scripture is accurate; the wisdom of men is foolishness in the sight of God.

 

[mama2one]

What does that tell you?

that they don't wear their masks

did you watch NYC New Year's eve on TV ?
a lot of people were maskless

 

[probinson]

that they don't wear their masks

did you watch NYC New Year's eve on TV ?
a lot of people were maskless

Did you watch the couple that got engaged have a masked midnight kiss, before removing their masks to take a drink and talk?

Mask theater at its finest.

 

[Laconia79]

One summer day when my son was nearly three, I decided to give him an understanding of "hot" and "cold." I filled one glass with very water, an identical glass with cold water, and had him touch each glass, calling each, as appropriate, "hot" or "cold."

His eyes lit up, and he ran over to the furnace vent, pointed at it, and said "Hot!"

I figured he'd bumped up against it at some point the previous winter, and totally remembered the sensation...but didn't have a word for it at the time.

Well sometimes you have to let them get hurt to learn a lesson. Hot water, hot oven door, something minor so something major does not happen.

 

[Mattao]

TLDR: What are some reasons Christians have for not wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Covid?

Context/background: I'm really confused. I see many reasons from scripture and otherwise that convince me that wearing a mask around others seems like the right thing to do, but I see tons of Christians around me that must not have reached the same conclusion. Among them are wise, intelligent people that really love the Lord. So I feel like I'm missing something important - what is it? What are the reasons that Christians have for not wearing masks? I'm personally not looking for a debate on the relative merits of these reasons - just a list would be nice. Help me understand.

The reasons I've seen expressed go something like this:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face

What else?
If this has already been beat to death in previous threads - can you point me towards them? I'm new here

Thanks

I'm not anti vax I'm pro choice.

 

[Laconia79]

I'm not anti vax I'm pro choice.

Well I am pro choice until the decision affects the lives of the people I care about. People do not want to take the vaccine or use mask cause supposedly the believe it does not work. Deep down they know it works. The real issue is people not wanting to be told what to do. If there is a vaccine that can save people's lives then I am all for making it the law of land that you need to vaccine. What is funny is know one should have to tell you they work. I think 90% or higher success rate is pretty damn good. I also believe the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[Albion]

Well I am pro choice until the decision affects the lives of the people I care about. People do not want to take the vaccine or use mask cause supposedly the believe it does not work. Deep down they know it works.

None of the many people I have spoken with who are opposed to mandatory masking or vaccinations without end have said or hinted at that being the reason for their decision.

I also believe the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few.

Whew. I hope you are in the majority when it comes to just about everything that matters to you in life, then. That's because the majority will always find a way of saying that it's for someone's own good when they take away everything that the minority have.

 

[probinson]

Well I am pro choice until the decision affects the lives of the people I care about. People do not want to take the vaccine or use mask cause supposedly the believe it does not work. Deep down they know it works.

Sure. That's why entire universities with 99%+ vaccination rates (+ boosters) have had major COVID outbreaks and moved to remote learning. That's why studies on masking in schools are "inconclusive". That's why the US recorded over a MILLION COVID cases in a single day. Because everything we're doing "works". </sarcasm>

So I'm curious; what metric would you need to see to convince you that, perhaps, all of this isn't "working" as well as you've been told?

 

[Mattao]

Well I am pro choice until the decision affects the lives of the people.

Isn't that what you're doing with abortion? My body, my choice.

Also, on a completely different side of this argument.
If you're a Christian why arent you trusting God?
Sorry to say, but Jesus wouldnt have gotten the vax, he would have just cured covid.

 

[Job 33:6]

Sure. That's why entire universities with 99%+ vaccination rates (+ boosters) have had major COVID outbreaks and moved to remote learning. That's why studies on masking in schools are "inconclusive". That's why the US recorded over a MILLION COVID cases in a single day. Because everything we're doing "works". </sarcasm>

So I'm curious; what metric would you need to see to convince you that, perhaps, all of this isn't "working" as well as you've been told?

But of course everyone knows that the vaccines aren't 100% effective. So we should expect some vaccinated people to get covid.

But that doesn't mean that they aren't slowing transmission, slowing hospitalizations and saving lives.

Unvaccinated are something like 10-20x more likely to die of covid than vaccinated. The vaccines prevented infection in greater than 90% of people with alpha, and greater than 70% in Delta. We don't really know about omicron yet, but they most certainly are preventing infections there too.

And the vaccines aren't simply preventing symptoms. Many studies have clearly demonstrated that vaccinated people, to some degree, simply don't get infected at all (and therefore don't spread the virus either). And this is known through blind testing of large numbers of people.

And not only that, but even in breakthrough cases studies have demonstrated that the virus dies faster in vaccinated people, further decreasing the odds of transmission.

 

[probinson]

But of course everyone knows that the vaccines aren't 100% effective. So we should expect some vaccinated people to get covid.

Some? Have you watched the news lately? Vaccinated (and boosted) people are being infected at remarkably high rates.

But that doesn't mean that they aren't slowing transmission,

Not so much;

slowing hospitalizations

Not so much;

and saving lives.

Unvaccinated are something like 10-20x more likely to die of covid than vaccinated. The vaccines prevented infection in greater than 90% of people with alpha, and greater than 70% in Delta. We don't really know about omicron yet, but they most certainly are preventing infections there too.

Look at your statement; "We don't really know... but they most certainly are." What do you base that certainty on?

And the vaccines aren't simply preventing symptoms.

Yeah, they aren't doing that ether. In the last month, I personally know dozens of fully vaccinated (some boosted) symptomatic COVID positive people. Symptoms have ranged from mild to moderate, with a handful requiring hospitalization.

Many studies have clearly demonstrated that vaccinated people, to some degree, simply don't get infected at all (and therefore don't spread the virus either). And this is known through blind testing of large numbers of people.

Yeah, not in reality. And not everyone agrees. In fact, many experts believe that everyone is going to get COVID, vaccinated or not, multiple times in their lives. That equates to a 100% breakthrough rate ;

Vaccinated or not, everyone is likely to get COVID-19 at some point, many experts say – Orange County Register

And not only that, but even in breakthrough cases studies have demonstrated that the virus dies faster in vaccinated people, further decreasing the odds of transmission.

If you say so.

Meanwhile, vaccinated and boosted people are getting symptomatic breakthrough cases of COVID that last just as long as unvaccinated cases of COVID.

Again I have to ask, what metric would you need to see to be convinced that what you've been told isn't reflective of reality? Cases are skyrocketing, hospitalizations are up, breakthrough cases are at alarming levels and many of those cases are symptomatic. So what exactly would have to happen for you to realize that this isn't "working" as well as you've been told?