Christians and masks: what am I missing?

[J Michael]

Just thought I'd share this. Make of it what you will.
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms
By Paul Elias Alexander December 20, 2021
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms ⋆ Brownstone Institute

"It is not unreasonable to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are being used (without other forms of PPE protection), have no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus. Current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful. The body of evidence indicates that face masks are largely ineffective.


My focus is on COVID face masks and the prevailing science that we have had for nearly 20 months. Yet I wish to address this mask topic at a 50,000-foot level on the lockdown restrictive policies in general. I build on the backs of the fine work done by Gupta, Kulldorff, and Bhattacharya on the Great Barrington Declaration (GBD) and similar impetus by Dr. Scott Atlas (advisor to POTUS Trump) who, like myself, was a strong proponent for a focused type of protection that was based on an age-risk stratified approach.


Because we saw very early on that the lockdowns were the single greatest mistake in public health history. We knew the history and knew they would not work. We also knew very early of COVID’s risk stratification. Sadly, our children will bear the catastrophic consequences and not just educationally, of the deeply flawed school closure policy for decades to come (particularly our minority children who were least able to afford this). Many are still pressured to wear masks and punished for not doing so.


I present the masking ‘body of evidence’ below (n=167 studies and pieces of evidence), comprised of comparative effectiveness research as well as related evidence and high-level reporting. To date, the evidence has been stable and clear that masks do not work to control the virus and they can be harmful and especially to children. "
Then follows the studies and evidence.

 

[RDKirk]

Just thought I'd share this. Make of it what you will.
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms
By Paul Elias Alexander December 20, 2021
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms ⋆ Brownstone Institute

"It is not unreasonable to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are being used (without other forms of PPE protection), have no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus. Current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful. The body of evidence indicates that face masks are largely ineffective.

Don't wear cloth or surgical masks.

Wear N-95, KN-95, or KF-94 masks.

They are readily available.

 

[SkyWriting]

TLDR: What are some reasons Christians have for not wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Covid?

Peer pressure. Group thinking.
Our DNA pushes people to get along with each other, so if friends and relatives
believe one thing, then going along with the local group has an evolutionary advantage.

 

[classical5]

well, the evidence suggests that masks are the second most effective risk reduction strategy we can follow. So, where does the idea come from that "masks don't work"? Bizarre denialism.

The evidence does not show masks are effective. The 2020 study in Bangladesh (cited by the CDC) found with widespread govt mandated and monitored use of surgical masks the reduction in infection was 9% compared to the unmasked popoulations. The study of Massachusetts K-12 masking found a 10% reduction in infection. Thats in monitored populations, not the general public. So the best result is a 10% reduction in infection. Thats not enough to effect community transmission.

In the general population, masking is pointless. Many masks are useless, all those artistic masks and gators and cheap cloth masks do nothing. There are many videos on the internet in which a person tests all kinds of masks shwoing your breath vapor goes right through them. CNN medical expert Dr. Wenn said they were "little more than facial decorations".

If you have facial hair, even the best mask is pointless. If you wear a real mask (N95, or 3 ply filtered, etc) and don't wear it properly, its pointless.

Even if you have a real mask, its not good forever. N95 medical masks are good for about 1 hour, but there are people wearing teh same blue N95 mask for over a year, they just throw it in the car center console and take it out when they are going into a store.

Masks in the general population are worthless. Masks in a controlled and monitored environment provide minimal benefit.

 

[Job 33:6]

I don't believe masks work and I actually believe they may be unhealthy in terms of bacteria buildup and micro plastics. If you think they work, take a drag off a cigerette, put the mask on, and exhale (actually don't start smoking, this is just a test). What do you see? But ... when I go into business that requires one, I wear one because I believe businesses have that right. I also realize there are people out there who are sincerely afraid, especially elderly ones, and I don't want to cause them anxiety. But everywhere else, and in places where there are no rules, I don't wear one.

Investigating the current status of COVID-19 related plastics and their potential impact on human health - ScienceDirect

An investigation into the leaching of micro and nano particles and chemical pollutants from disposable face masks - linked to the COVID-19 pandemic - ScienceDirect

Your nanoparticle article is discussing leaching from masks, not something someone would be exposed to while wearing a mask. It's like noting that pants leach ink and arguing that there is dangerous dermal exposure to hazardous chemicals whenever you wear a pair of pants.

In reality, to investigate the question of safety of masks, you have to look at their use in natural gaseous environments. In a world of vehicle exhaust, dust kicked up by vehicles, dust in houses or facilities that aren't well ventilated, warehouses, obviously bacteria and viral particulates in the air, industrial emissions and general gaseous environmental constituents, masks reduce environmental exposures.

Obviously it would be a problem if someone went around soaking masks in water overnight then drinking the water each morning But of course this isn't the natural use of masks. Just as it would be dangerous for someone to soak a pair of pants each night and then to drink the water of the pants each morning. But of course this isn't the natural use of pants.

So we need to put these concepts into context when discussing whether or not it is safe to wear masks or pants.

 

[parousia70]

Yeah ok believe what you want but the mask does nothing it’s all part of scare tactics by those who started the scamdemic.

The Wearing of Masks in public places actually INCREASES personal Freedom by INCREASING the likelihood you will remain totally anonymous in Public, unrecognizable to the Big Government Cameras with Face recognition software that are literally EVERYWHERE you go, tracking your every move already... If the "Deep State" believed masks would increase their control over the populace they couldn't be more wrong, and are far more stupid than I thought.

I ALWAYS Mask up now everywhere i go. I couldn't be more pleased with the Mask requirement. It has set personal liberty FORWARD, and put a huge roadblock in the way of Big Government control.
Heck, you can even walk into the lobby of a Bank with a mask on now and no one bats an eye... I never though I'd see the day we would be so very liberated and free that we could do something like wear a full face mask while banking... Its a huge Victory for Personal Liberty.

It's nobody's business (especially Government) to know where you are going, what you are doing and who you are with.
The Mass Wearing of Masks is a "Freedom Catalyst" for our society.

Public Anonymity = FREEDOM
Wear the Mask = Stay Anonymous = Stay FREE.

 

[bass_prayer]

Just thought I'd share this. Make of it what you will.
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms
By Paul Elias Alexander December 20, 2021
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms ⋆ Brownstone Institute

Thanks again for a link that allows more digging. I'm seen a few articles like this now, and am starting to see a pattern:

1. An article claims "Here's a bajillion scientific papers that show masks don't work, lockdowns are terrible, etc." These tend to be published on websites that say they want people to know the truth, but don't give a ton of detail about how they determine what truth is (or where their money comes from, for that matter)
2. I start reading the papers cited in the article
3. Of the papers I read (I don't read all of them, not even a significant chunk, but more than one), 100% of them either don't really apply or support what I already though was true.
4. Go back and compare the real paper to how it is summarized and the bias (/dishonesty) is pretty plain.

Here's what I think is true about masks, and seems to be backed up by all the papers I've read (even those cited by articles like the one linked above).

• When we breathe, sing, cough, sneeze, etc. we expel huge numbers of small droplets/particles ranging in size from sub-micron to hundreds of microns. There's a much larger quantity of smaller particles (but they're smaller, so may carry fewer viruses - I haven't seen that explored yet)
• Viruses can hitch a ride on these particles and this seems to be an important mode of COVID transmission between people.
• The largest particles (100 micron or so) fall to the ground fairly quickly, and the 6' social-distancing guideline is related to getting far enough away to avoid getting blasted by these big droplets.
• The smaller particles (sub-micron to 10um) can stay suspended in the air for a long time, and can build up to significant concentrations indoors or in crowds. It's these small particles that have lead to recommendations about ventilation/filtration/UV treatment for indoor air.
• We don't really know how many viruses you have to inhale to get sick, but assume that it's a numbers game - reducing the amount you inhale should reduce the risk of getting COVID.
• Masks remove some particles from the outgoing air, and may protect the wearer by filtering incoming air as well.
• How well masks remove these particles depend greatly on all the particulars - mask type, leakage around the edges (especially around the nose), and particle size are all huge variables. Best results are with good masks, minimal leakage, and larger particles (though there is some filtration at even 1 micron)
• You can certainly find combinations of these variables that produce an effect too small to measure. So it wouldn't surprise me if mask mandates have limited effectiveness if the population doesn't care. But if you want to protect your neighbor - get a good mask and work at getting a good fit, and it should help in a significant way (but will not be perfect).

If I'm wrong about any of this, feel free to let me know. But this is what it looks like from where I sit.

 

[RDKirk]

Thanks again for a link that allows more digging. I'm seen a few articles like this now, and am starting to see a pattern:

1. An article claims "Here's a bajillion scientific papers that show masks don't work, lockdowns are terrible, etc." These tend to be published on websites that say they want people to know the truth, but don't give a ton of detail about how they determine what truth is (or where their money comes from, for that matter)
2. I start reading the papers cited in the article
3. Of the papers I read (I don't read all of them, not even a significant chunk, but more than one), 100% of them either don't really apply or support what I already though was true.
4. Go back and compare the real paper to how it is summarized and the bias (/dishonesty) is pretty plain.

Here's what I think is true about masks, and seems to be backed up by all the papers I've read (even those cited by articles like the one linked above).

• When we breathe, sing, cough, sneeze, etc. we expel huge numbers of small droplets/particles ranging in size from sub-micron to hundreds of microns. There's a much larger quantity of smaller particles (but they're smaller, so may carry fewer viruses - I haven't seen that explored yet)
• Viruses can hitch a ride on these particles and this seems to be an important mode of COVID transmission between people.
• The largest particles (100 micron or so) fall to the ground fairly quickly, and the 6' social-distancing guideline is related to getting far enough away to avoid getting blasted by these big droplets.
• The smaller particles (sub-micron to 10um) can stay suspended in the air for a long time, and can build up to significant concentrations indoors or in crowds. It's these small particles that have lead to recommendations about ventilation/filtration/UV treatment for indoor air.
• We don't really know how many viruses you have to inhale to get sick, but assume that it's a numbers game - reducing the amount you inhale should reduce the risk of getting COVID.
• Masks remove some particles from the outgoing air, and may protect the wearer by filtering incoming air as well.
• How well masks remove these particles depend greatly on all the particulars - mask type, leakage around the edges (especially around the nose), and particle size are all huge variables. Best results are with good masks, minimal leakage, and larger particles (though there is some filtration at even 1 micron)
• You can certainly find combinations of these variables that produce an effect too small to measure. So it wouldn't surprise me if mask mandates have limited effectiveness if the population doesn't care. But if you want to protect your neighbor - get a good mask and work at getting a good fit, and it should help in a significant way (but will not be perfect).

If I'm wrong about any of this, feel free to let me know. But this is what it looks like from where I sit.

Yes. The most important thing is to remember that avoiding contracting the disease is a numbers game. There is a panoply of factors people can adjust at any given time in any given situation to bias the odds in their favor as much as they dare.

My wife and I like movies. We go to movies now, but we wear KN-95 masks and we buy advanced tickets for specific couple of seats in our favorite theater that guarantee us at least six feet distance from any other patrons. If we can't get those seats in that theater, we don't go. We're also fully vaccinated.

You play the numbers and stack the odds however possible.

 

[probinson]

Don't wear cloth or surgical masks.

Wear N-95, KN-95, or KF-94 masks.

They are readily available.

Literally no one advocated for this at any point until it became undeniably obvious that cloth and surgical masks were useless. So now it appears it's time to move the goalposts. But the endless recommendations and "science" advocating for cloth face coverings by governments, public health "experts" (the CDC actually had a tutorial for how to make a cloth face covering on their website) is all over the Internet, unfortunately for the people who would like to memory hole all of that garbage "science".

Also, there are countries that have implemented stricter mask mandates with no apparent success. Germany comes to mind. They instituted a "medical" mask mandate in January 2021 requiring FFP or N95 masks (Germany Mandates Medical-Grade Masks) Spoiler alert: cases continued their precipitous climb long after this mandate was instituted.

 

[probinson]

• How well masks remove these particles depend greatly on all the particulars - mask type, leakage around the edges (especially around the nose), and particle size are all huge variables. Best results are with good masks, minimal leakage, and larger particles (though there is some filtration at even 1 micron)

You've inadvertently hit on why mask mandates are completely useless. "Masks" in the COVID era means "anything over your face". As long as you have some kind of something over your mouth and (sometimes) nose, people are happy that you are "complying" with said mandate. For instance, we know that neck gaiters are all but completely useless, yet most places are more than happy to let you pull your neck gaiter up over your face to "comply" with the mandate.

Just take a look around you. Even in places where masking is "strictly enforced", people have their masks down past their noses, they're wearing primarily cloth masks that are doing next to nothing, and NO. ONE. CARES.

You can get on a plane, ride a bus, go to school, enter most public buildings and as long as you have *something* on your face, people will leave you alone.

No one is concerned about the type of mask you're wearing, much less if it actually fits your face properly. No one cares if you've got a massive, bushy beard with a mask that is literally inches away from your mouth, resting on your facial hair. All they care about is whether or not you have a "face covering", because it's not about reducing case counts or your safety. It's about "compliance" and the illusion of "doing the right thing".

So perhaps if there had actually been a concerted effort to require people to shave off all their facial hair, and wear the proper type of masks, and education on how to wear the mask properly, and enforcement of proper wearing of the masks, *maybe* there would have been some benefit, and then you'd be able to have the conversation about the N95 fitted masks not providing "perfect" protection. But we had nothing of the sort. Instead, we had the CDC showing people how to turn their old Van Halen T-shirts into "face coverings" that were nothing more than pandemic theater.

 

[probinson]

My wife and I like movies. We go to movies now, but we wear KN-95 masks and we buy advanced tickets for specific couple of seats in our favorite theater that guarantee us at least six feet distance from any other patrons. If we can't get those seats in that theater, we don't go. We're also fully vaccinated.

You play the numbers and stack the odds however possible.

What I just heard was a risk analysis (which I think we all should make for ourselves).

There is no question you would be far safer, and would pose less of a risk to others and yourself, if you would just forget the movies and stay home. Regardless of 6 feet of space, you're spending 90-120 minutes in an enclosed space with these people. Aerosols flying willy nilly around the theater for everyone to breathe in. So why do you choose to intentionally put yourselves others at risk?

 

[JohnPaul88]

Yes. The most important thing is to remember that avoiding contracting the disease is a numbers game. There is a panoply of factors people can adjust at any given time in any given situation to bias the odds in their favor as much as they dare.

My wife and I like movies. We go to movies now, but we wear KN-95 masks and we buy advanced tickets for specific couple of seats in our favorite theater that guarantee us at least six feet distance from any other patrons. If we can't get those seats in that theater, we don't go. We're also fully vaccinated.

You play the numbers and stack the odds however possible.

So if you’re fully vaccinated what are you worried about? If you trust the vaccine to do it’s job then you shouldn’t be worried and wearing masks.

 

[Taodeching]

What are the reasons that Christians have for not wearing masks?

Absolute and utter selfishness

 

[RDKirk]

So if you’re fully vaccinated what are you worried about? If you trust the vaccine to do it’s job then you shouldn’t be worried and wearing masks.

As I said: The most important thing is to remember that avoiding contracting the disease is a numbers game. There is a panoply of factors people can adjust at any given time in any given situation to bias the odds in their favor as much as they dare.

 

[RDKirk]

What I just heard was a risk analysis (which I think we all should make for ourselves).

There is no question you would be far safer, and would pose less of a risk to others and yourself, if you would just forget the movies and stay home. Regardless of 6 feet of space, you're spending 90-120 minutes in an enclosed space with these people. Aerosols flying willy nilly around the theater for everyone to breathe in. So why do you choose to intentionally put yourselves others at risk?

As I said: The most important thing is to remember that avoiding contracting the disease is a numbers game. There is a panoply of factors people can adjust at any given time in any given situation to bias the odds in their favor as much as they dare.

 

[RDKirk]

Literally no one advocated for this at any point until it became undeniably obvious that cloth and surgical masks were useless. So now it appears it's time to move the goalposts. But the endless recommendations and "science" advocating for cloth face coverings by governments, public health "experts" (the CDC actually had a tutorial for how to make a cloth face covering on their website) is all over the Internet, unfortunately for the people who would like to memory hole all of that garbage "science".

I've already talked in this thread about the fact that Fauci had lied about masks from the beginning--and I knew he was lying the moment he said it. I'm not going over that again.

Also, there are countries that have implemented stricter mask mandates with no apparent success. Germany comes to mind. They instituted a "medical" mask mandate in January 2021 requiring FFP or N95 masks (Germany Mandates Medical-Grade Masks) Spoiler alert: cases continued their precipitous climb long after this mandate was instituted.

The Germans are doing something wrong that the average Covid nurse is not doing wrong.

 

[mama2one]

when our state had a mask mandate, our case numbers went down to 27/100,000

now there is no mask mandate
our case numbers are up to over 1,000/100,000

what does that tell you?

 

[J Michael]

when our state had a mask mandate, our case numbers went down to 27/100,000

now there is no mask mandate
our case numbers are up to over 1,000/100,000

what does that tell you?

That, because of the highly virulent but normally very mild Omicron variant, case numbers are going up dramatically all over the country. Hospitalizations and deaths (stats, as I understand it, that usually tell a truer story about what's happening) are increasing much less so.

What state are you in?

 

[mama2one]

ot

 

[Job 33:6]

So if you’re fully vaccinated what are you worried about? If you trust the vaccine to do it’s job then you shouldn’t be worried and wearing masks.

Vaccines aren't 100% effective for everyone. Just like seat belts and parachutes.