Christians and masks: what am I missing?

[bass_prayer]

TLDR: What are some reasons Christians have for not wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Covid?

Context/background: I'm really confused. I see many reasons from scripture and otherwise that convince me that wearing a mask around others seems like the right thing to do, but I see tons of Christians around me that must not have reached the same conclusion. Among them are wise, intelligent people that really love the Lord. So I feel like I'm missing something important - what is it? What are the reasons that Christians have for not wearing masks? I'm personally not looking for a debate on the relative merits of these reasons - just a list would be nice. Help me understand.

The reasons I've seen expressed go something like this:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face

What else?
If this has already been beat to death in previous threads - can you point me towards them? I'm new here

Thanks

 

[Rachel20]

I don't believe masks work and I actually believe they may be unhealthy in terms of bacteria buildup and micro plastics. If you think they work, take a drag off a cigerette, put the mask on, and exhale (actually don't start smoking, this is just a test). What do you see? But ... when I go into business that requires one, I wear one because I believe businesses have that right. I also realize there are people out there who are sincerely afraid, especially elderly ones, and I don't want to cause them anxiety. But everywhere else, and in places where there are no rules, I don't wear one.

Investigating the current status of COVID-19 related plastics and their potential impact on human health - ScienceDirect

An investigation into the leaching of micro and nano particles and chemical pollutants from disposable face masks - linked to the COVID-19 pandemic - ScienceDirect

 

[GirdYourLoins]

This is not a Christian thing, this is a right wing US thing by people that identify as Christian. Here is the UK I'd say its more left wing anti-establishment that dont believe in covid or mask wearing. I've yet to meet a Christian who doesnt believe in wearing masks.

 

[J Michael]

It's never occurred to me that wearing a mask or not had anything to do with Christianity, per se. But then...I live in a cave .

As has been said above, masks a) don't work, and b) can be harmful. So...why wear one unless you are for some reason nonsensically required to to enter a building or business, or you're virtue signaling, or you're fearful, or you're making a bizarre fashion statement?

 

[miamited]

Hi @bass_prayer

I imagine it's got a lot to do with pride. People just not being comfortable with someone, especially the government, telling them what they have to do. Despite the fact that we're all the time doing things that the government tells us that we have to do. I just paid the taxes on my home and renewed my car registrations. There's also some who trust that God is going to take care of them, and up to a point, I'm one of those.

I've often told people that if a doctor ever tells me that I've got some health issue that is going to lead to death, then I'll thank him and go home and continue living life until that death comes. Who knows, I might get run over walking out of his office or meet some gun nut with a gun who doesn't happen to like the way I walk and chew gum at the same time. However, I don't mind taking some precautionary measures regarding my health, and that's how I see the vaccine.

I attend a fairly good sized Baptist denomination of the believers and you could have heard a pin drop when I mentioned in a small group that I had voted for Mrs. Clinton. I say that just to say that I'm not necessarily the poster child for some who seem to be willing to pick at a gnat while they swallow a camel. Which is how I see most of the anti-vax movement.

I believe that when God said that we should love others as ourselves, that He may well have been referring to issues such as this. I'd feel horrible if my being stubborn regarding the vaccinations were to cause the death of one of my grown children. And for me, that's got a lot to do with it. When the cancer comes, it's only going to affect me. However, this Covid, if one is even just a carrier, can effect the lives of others. So, I believe that as a community problem, and as a believer, I should do what makes the community safer.

Yes, yes, I know that my being vaccinated doesn't absolutely mean that I won't be a carrier, but it does lessen the chances and I will make such a minuscule sacrifice if it might help my neighbor, family or friends. Besides, most schools require certain vaccinations and very few parents seem to balk at that 'government requirement' of their raising their children.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Derek1111]

It's never occurred to me that wearing a mask or not had anything to do with Christianity, per se. But then...I live in a cave .

As has been said above, masks a) don't work, and b) can be harmful. So...why wear one unless you are for some reason nonsensically required to to enter a building or business, or you're virtue signaling, or you're fearful, or you're making a bizarre fashion statement?

well, the evidence suggests that masks are the second most effective risk reduction strategy we can follow. So, where does the idea come from that "masks don't work"? Bizarre denialism.

 

[J Michael]

I find it amazing that nearly 2 years into this thing, we're still arguing about the efficacy of masks.

This, from a much longer article at Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.
"Conclusion
Face masks in the general population might be effective, at least in some circumstances, but there is currently little to no evidence supporting this proposition. If the coronavirus is indeed transmitted via indoor aerosols, face masks are unlikely to be protective. Thus, health authorities should not assume or suggest that face masks will reduce the rate or risk of infection.

England vs. Scotland: Mask mandate without benefit


PCR positivity rate: England removed its mask mandate on July 19, 2021 (Spectator/DS)
Postscript (August 2021)
A long-term analysis shows that infections have been driven primarily by seasonal and endemic factors, whereas mask mandates and lockdowns have had no discernible impact"

Mask mandates, gene-therapy jab mandates, lockdowns no longer have anything at all to do with health, public or private, if they ever did. They have been shown time and time again to have little to no effect on the spread or infectivity of Covid-19. A little research beyond what is available from the vast majority of the MSM, google, BigTech and BigPharma will show that. It's about.........control. If you give up your freedoms and rights to the government, the government won't want to give them back to you.

 

[J Michael]

well, the evidence suggests that masks are the second most effective risk reduction strategy we can follow. So, where does the idea come from that "masks don't work"? Bizarre denialism.

See my post above, with citation. I suggest you go to the link provided and read the material there, and study the charts and graphs provided. I only included one graph, and certainly not the most telling of them. Taken together they present a compelling argument against mask mandates.

Where are the studies that show that masks, as worn by the overwhelming majority of people who wear them and outside of certain specific well controlled environments actually work to stop the spread of Covid-19?

I'd just add that if you or anyone else WANTS to wear a mask, feels more secure wearing a mask, or wants to get jabbed, you will not get any argument at all from me. Just don't make me or others do the same if we don't want to, or if we've already had Covid illness and recovered.

You speak of risk reduction strategies. One of the very best risk reduction strategies is to follow the prophylactic protocols developed by people like Dr. Zelenko Prophylaxis Protocol – Dr. Vladimir Zelenko MD or the doctors at FLCCC https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...LCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf . Also, lose weight if you can and need to, stay active, spend time outdoors to the extent that you can, and.....don't get old (that was a joke! Old people, esp. over 80 are the most at risk).

Oh...and then there's this:
More Than 400 Studies on the Failure of Compulsory Covid Interventions
By Paul Elias Alexander November 30, 2021 from More Than 400 Studies on the Failure of Compulsory Covid Interventions ⋆ Brownstone Institute

 

[The Barbarian]

As has been said above, masks a) don't work, and b) can be harmful.

Bad assumption, faulty conclusion.

Masks do a lot of good to stop wearers from transmitting virus. Virus particles tend to adhere to fibers in the mask by electrostatic and Van der Walls forces. They provide some protection to wearers as well, but not as much as they provide to others.

That's been repeatedly documented here, but if you'd like to see it again, I'll do that.

You speak of risk reduction strategies. One of the very best risk reduction strategies is to follow the prophylactic protocols developed by people like Dr. Zelenko

Dr. Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko, an Orthodox Jewish doctor who rose to fame in March while promoting a cocktail of drugs he claimed had successfully treated coronavirus – including one that US President Donald Trump said Monday he is taking himself, despite the drug’s potentially dangerous side effects – has announced that he is leaving the Jewish community where he has practiced medicine for decades.
...
Zelenko announced he would leave Kiryas Joel, the town north of New York City where, until the coronavirus pandemic, he was known as a beloved community doctor.
...
Zelenko was accused by community leaders of spreading disinformation about the rate of coronavirus infection in Kiryas Joel
...
Zelenko is also being investigated by a federal prosecutor over his claim that a study of the drugs he promoted had won approval from the Food and Drug Administration.

Leaders of the Kiryas Joel community spoke out publicly against Zelenko in an open letter in March.
...
The letter was written to contradict Zelenko’s claims, which he promoted in videos posted to YouTube, that 90% of the Kiryas Joel community would be infected with COVID-19.

“These measures have, thanks to the Almighty, resulted in a rate of 90% of the community being healthy, the opposite of Dr Zelenko’s outrageous prediction of a 90% infection rate,” they wrote, referring to the closure of the community’s synagogues, schools, and other buildings.
Trump’s Favourite Jewish Quack MD Forced Out By His Own Community - Veterans Today | Military Foreign Affairs Policy Journal for Clandestine Services

 

[Derek1111]

See my post above, with citation. I suggest you go to the link provided and read the material there, and study the charts and graphs provided. I only included one graph, and certainly not the most telling of them. Taken together they present a compelling argument against mask mandates.

Where are the studies that show that masks, as worn by the overwhelming majority of people who wear them and outside of certain specific well controlled environments actually work to stop the spread of Covid-19?

I'd just add that if you or anyone else WANTS to wear a mask, feels more secure wearing a mask, or wants to get jabbed, you will not get any argument at all from me. Just don't make me or others do the same if we don't want to, or if we've already had Covid illness and recovered.

You speak of risk reduction strategies. One of the very best risk reduction strategies is to follow the prophylactic protocols developed by people like Dr. Zelenko Prophylaxis Protocol – Dr. Vladimir Zelenko MD or the doctors at FLCCC https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...LCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf . Also, lose weight if you can and need to, stay active, spend time outdoors to the extent that you can, and.....don't get old (that was a joke! Old people, esp. over 80 are the most at risk).

Oh...and then there's this:
More Than 400 Studies on the Failure of Compulsory Covid Interventions
By Paul Elias Alexander November 30, 2021 from More Than 400 Studies on the Failure of Compulsory Covid Interventions ⋆ Brownstone Institute

Mwa ha ha. Apart fro Barbarian's correct ripping Zelenko to shreds, there is an authoritative meta-analysis (see, for example, Masks and physical distancing are effective, study concludes) that confirms the exact opposite of what you are saying. Choose whether to wear a mask or not for your own sake, but for others' sake, please do.

 

[J Michael]

Maybe you didn't read the article I linked from the Brownstone Inst. above. Oh well.

I'm not going to get further into yet another debate about Covid, masks, the jab, etc. Scientists of good will and high standards frequently and sometimes quite passionately and vociferously disagree with one another. That's how science progresses. By all means wear a mask. Just don't mandate that I do so. Or try to guilt-trip me.

As for Zelenko, Barbarian may have, seemingly to your delight, "ripped him to shreds", but interestingly enough there was no comment on the efficacy or lack thereof of his Covid prophylactic and treatment protocols, or the protocols published by the FLCCC, linked above.

 

[Hazelelponi]

TLDR: What are some reasons Christians have for not wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Covid?

Context/background: I'm really confused. I see many reasons from scripture and otherwise that convince me that wearing a mask around others seems like the right thing to do, but I see tons of Christians around me that must not have reached the same conclusion. Among them are wise, intelligent people that really love the Lord. So I feel like I'm missing something important - what is it? What are the reasons that Christians have for not wearing masks? I'm personally not looking for a debate on the relative merits of these reasons - just a list would be nice. Help me understand.

The reasons I've seen expressed go something like this:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face

What else?
If this has already been beat to death in previous threads - can you point me towards them? I'm new here

Thanks

I wear a mask when and where asked (that's just respect for the law and others wishes) however, if not required I don't wear one. The reasons are as follows:

1.) I don't believe wearing one will stop the spread of germs/viruses and I go so far as to believe they do more harm than good (give people a false sense of security, become a petri dish for germs/viruses etc)

2.) I trust God with my life

3) I believe it's better from a mental health and/or social perspective to see people's faces during conversation etc

That's all on top of my head, but I may have other more minor reasons.

 

[TedT]

The reasons I've seen expressed go something like this:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face

An old joke has stuck with me since I heard it, what? Twenty-five years ago, now? It goes like this:

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

 

[J Michael]

An old joke has stuck with me since I heard it, what? Twenty-five years ago, now? It goes like this:

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

Two boats = 2 gene-therapy jabs, and a helicopter = a mask?

Or...two boats = ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and a helicopter = a dr. willing to prescribe them with a pharmacy willing to fill the Rx?

Or did you have something else in mind? See...that could be taken a number of ways.

 

[klutedavid]

TLDR: What are some reasons Christians have for not wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Covid?

Context/background: I'm really confused. I see many reasons from scripture and otherwise that convince me that wearing a mask around others seems like the right thing to do, but I see tons of Christians around me that must not have reached the same conclusion. Among them are wise, intelligent people that really love the Lord. So I feel like I'm missing something important - what is it? What are the reasons that Christians have for not wearing masks? I'm personally not looking for a debate on the relative merits of these reasons - just a list would be nice. Help me understand.

The reasons I've seen expressed go something like this:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face

What else?
If this has already been beat to death in previous threads - can you point me towards them? I'm new here

Thanks

Christians must obey the civil authorities regarding Covid-19, according to Paul (Romans 13:3-5).

Anyone failing to strictly follow their Government's advice, is basically, in rebellion against God's authority.

We are in a dangerous global pandemic

 

[bass_prayer]

So it looks like we're starting to transition into a debate about the merits of some of the stated reasons. That's ok - it's probably inevitable we'd get there eventually. But before we get too far, here's the updated list of reasons I've now heard:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face
5. Masks don't work
6. Masks cause harm (stuff growing on them, environmental impact, social disconnect, breathing difficulty - I'd add that it's hard to see when your glasses fog)

I've also seen/heard/imagined some vague connection between mask/vaccine/mandate things and bits of Revelation, but I'm not sure I understand what's implied well enough to articulate it. Is anybody able to fill me in?

Any other reasons?

 

[Derek1111]

Maybe you didn't read the article I linked from the Brownstone Inst. above. Oh well.

I'm not going to get further into yet another debate about Covid, masks, the jab, etc. Scientists of good will and high standards frequently and sometimes quite passionately and vociferously disagree with one another. That's how science progresses. By all means wear a mask. Just don't mandate that I do so. Or try to guilt-trip me.

As for Zelenko, Barbarian may have, seemingly to your delight, "ripped him to shreds", but interestingly enough there was no comment on the efficacy or lack thereof of his Covid prophylactic and treatment protocols, or the protocols published by the FLCCC, linked above.

The issue is not about whether mask mandates work. It's about whether masking works. And the science is unequivocal. After vaccinations, masking is the second most effective thing people can do to reduce the threat of transmission.

Perhaps you should ask yourself if you'd rather listen to a discredited quack, or assert civil liberties, than protect potentially vulnerable people.

And if you equate this to "guilt-tripping" you ... well, that's your call. I see it as directly analagous to urging you not to speed in a built-up area, or not to drink-drive. Or - where mandates don't exist - simply doing your bit for your fellow man and woman.

 

[Derek1111]

So it looks like we're starting to transition into a debate about the merits of some of the stated reasons. That's ok - it's probably inevitable we'd get there eventually. But before we get too far, here's the updated list of reasons I've now heard:

1. I trust God and don't want to live in fear
2. I don't believe what the authorities are telling us
3. Don't tell me what to do
4. I was made in the image of God and don't think I should cover my face
5. Masks don't work
6. Masks cause harm (stuff growing on them, environmental impact, social disconnect, breathing difficulty - I'd add that it's hard to see when your glasses fog)

I've also seen/heard/imagined some vague connection between mask/vaccine/mandate things and bits of Revelation, but I'm not sure I understand what's implied well enough to articulate it. Is anybody able to fill me in?

Any other reasons?

That sounds like a comrehensive list of the sorts of reasons people have offered, though they're quite different taxonomically: some are based in views of rights, some are based in views of the data and evidence, and some are based on views of Scripture. I think you could add medical exemptions to that list. The key issue is, how convinced are you of your position, and how do you weight these issues. For example, I'm an evangelical, so I set a lot of store by what Scripture says. But I simply don't think Scripture says anything about vaccination or masking; and I don't believe that all of the people who are up in arms about C19 refused to get vaccines for flu, polio, or tetanus. They have their reasons, of course.

I say this as a supporter of masking.

 

[TedT]

Or did you have something else in mind? See...that could be taken a number of ways.

To me it means seeking/ seeing GOD in the little things too, not just in a miracle.

I'd rather be praising GOD for masks and vaccines than my family lying in the ICU praying desperately for a miracle!

 

[mama2one]

.