ahab said:
Hi Fejao,
As to abortion I will answer presently but as to same-sex sex I am still waiting for some from you to show that it is countenanced. All you do is pop up here and there, make your claim and never support it.
These you will remember reveal to most scholars that sexual activity can only be in a faithful man/woman marriage.
Matt 19, Mark 10 (Gen 2) and Heb 13, 1 Cor 6
As to same-sex sex, the scriptures Gen 19, Lev 18, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim, Rom 1.
ahab said:
Hi Fejao,
Sorry my friend but I have repeated the references once again, which condemn same-sex sex. Also I cant find a single post even on a search where you have provided any scriptural countenance.
I can find posts where you say you have provided such references but that seems to be the sum of it.
Please could you provide them or point me to such a post?
Most Scholars, like? Ahab you cannot just rip these scriptures out of the bible in support of your stance, you must look at them in their cultural context. First sexual activity was not limited to a man/woman we have examples like Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines which clearly is not just a man and a woman. Now if you are refering to gender man/woman you would be speaking out of silence, the bible does not address loving faithful same-sex marriage, why because of the culture and because of Hebrew cultural beliefs. Also may I add that marriage as a sacrament was not canonized until 1215 in the 4th Lateran Council (Boswell (1994), pg. 178). Hebrew marriage was not an act of love, but one of ownership and contractural affair, this should be the context in which you base your biblical stance on, however I believe this is not the case for any 21st century Christian. The only real definition of marriage is in Genesis which is a descriptive account and not a prescriptive as some like to use it, however it is only implied, it is nowhere explicated. To say that the Bible excludes gay marriages from lack of Biblical models of gay marriages is weak evidence. There is in essence no biblical model of what is defined as marriage today, or a model for flying, for driving, for infertile couples, does that mean they are immoral or wrong, no? In the Old Testament, there is both monogamy, and bigamy. There is no hint that either form of marriage is condemned in Scripture, however we in our culture feel bigamy is immoral, which is not in-keeping with the word. It could therefore be put forward that there is no biblical norm for marriage, however we do see behavioural norms that are commanded in the bible love, fidelity, commitment and respect, all which can and are part of homosexual marriages. There is no suggestion or implcation that the bible prohibits gay marriage, nada. Of course it would not be mentioned, because of cultural factors; this is shown by the little mention of homosexuality at all in the bible. The emperor Nero (ruled 54-68 CE) had a very public marriage ceremony to another man, and at least by Juvenal's time a couple of decades later, gay marriages were commonplace (Boswell (1994), pg. 80-81). Gay marriages did exist in the common forum, yet we see no Biblical prohibitions of them.
You refer to types of love agape, filea and eros, you imply I believe that these cannot be present between two people of the same sex in the sphere of marriage (filea/agape). I would just like to point out that gay marriage is not just about sex, yes this a component just like any marriage, but like hetrosexual marriage companionship and love are central qualities of homosexual relationships. There are many gay affirming passages in the bible, ones that affirm people of the same sex can have emotional bonds just as lovley, precious and loving as thoes of the opposite sex. Ruth 1:16-17 and 2:10-11,
1 Samuel 18:1, 1 Samuel 18:2, 1 Samuel 18:3-4, 1 Samuel 18:20-21, 1 Samuel 20:41, 2 Samuel 1:26, Daniel 1:9.
Also may I add that quoting Lev, Romans etc in opposition of homosexuality and gay marriage in relation to this discussion is not helpful. As I have pointed out these passages again have to be understood in their context, they are condeming ritual temple prostitution and not loving homosexuals in marriage. Also I would say that the sources used, explore this topic much better than I could. These can be provided through Pm, as they break forum rules. May God Bless you my friend.
Fejao x
http://www.jeramyt.org/gay.html
