CHRISTIANOPHOBIA - anti Christian hatred.

[ahab]

Hi hernyaccent,

Well I agree with your last post. Its not that I want to side with Phelps at all, I didn't propose him in the first place. As you say Phelps isnt going to be able tell of the gospel by telling people they are sinners. What my point was of course was neither are people being lead to Christ if they are being told they are not sinners, which of course is what groups like LGCM are doing. That just empties the power of the cross.
All I have shown is that at least what Phelps speaks has some credibility in scripture whereas what the LGCM speak doesn't. Its not good calling Phelps extreme, the extreme is clearly LGCM and the pro-same sex sex gay and lesbian groups, who call themselves brothers and sisters(1 Cor 5)

Phelps and others like him can continue to show people the negativity of Christianity while I will continue to show the homosexuals and others who take part in abominations that Christ is about LOVE.

Amen! Bless you.

 

[raphael_aa]

When scriptures talk about 'speaking the truth in love' it implies it is possible to speak the truth without love. It is possible to be 'right' but still be wrong. The gospel ought to be the union of truth and love. How do we know when we have spoken without love? I think the reaction of our hearers ought to give us a clue. When Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he had, he went away troubled. He did not yell at Jesus I assume because the way Jesus said it got past his defenses. Too often our being 'right' is more imporetant to us than being effective.

 

[ahab]

Hi Raphael_aaa

When scriptures talk about 'speaking the truth in love' it implies it is possible to speak the truth without love. It is possible to be 'right' but still be wrong. The gospel ought to be the union of truth and love. How do we know when we have spoken without love? I think the reaction of our hearers ought to give us a clue. When Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he had, he went away troubled. He did not yell at Jesus I assume because the way Jesus said it got past his defenses. Too often our being 'right' is more imporetant to us than being effective.

The gospel is the union of truth and love because God is Love and Jesus is the way the truth and the life. So if we speak and do what Jesus commanded and taught we speak the truth. What Phelps is doing is not just yelling at the rich young rulers (the gay and lesbian community), but the Pharisees (LGCM) the truth is found in Jesus not love. If Jesus had wanted to love (philedelphia) the rich young ruler he would not have told him the truth in love (agape) that caused the rich young ruler to turn away troubled. God is agape (love), not philedelphia (love) is god

 

[raphael_aa]

Hi Raphael_aaa



The gospel is the union of truth and love because God is Love and Jesus is the way the truth and the life. So if we speak and do what Jesus commanded and taught we speak the truth. What Phelps is doing is not just yelling at the rich young rulers (the gay and lesbian community), but the Pharisees (LGCM) the truth is found in Jesus not love. If Jesus had wanted to love (philedelphia) the rich young ruler he would not have told him the truth in love (agape) that caused the rich young ruler to turn away troubled. God is agape (love), not philedelphia (love) is god

I'm a little confused here. You're supporting the methods of Phelps?

 

[ahab]

Hi Raphael_aaa

I'm a little confused here. You're supporting the methods of Phelps?

Quite obviously not entirely. Jesus just spoke the truth in love to the rich young ruler, (the gay and lesbian community) but he told the Pharisees (LGCM) in no uncertain terms they were a brood of vipers condemned to hell. I would have thought that the shouting was entirely in-appropriate and unloving to the gay and lesbian community (the rich young ruler), but appropriate to the the LGCM (the Pharisees)

 

[raphael_aa]

Hi Raphael_aaa



Quite obviously not entirely. Jesus just spoke the truth in love to the rich young ruler, (the gay and lesbian community) but he told the Pharisees (LGCM) in no uncertain terms they were a brood of vipers condemned to hell. I would have thought that the shouting was entirely in-appropriate and unloving to the gay and lesbian community (the rich young ruler), but appropriate to the the LGCM (the Pharisees)

Forgive me but I haven't a clue who LGCM is. What characteristics do they share with Pharisees who were strict legalists who thought they had exclusive rights to God?

 

[ahab]

Sorry Rapael_aa,

LGCM is the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement as a representation of those who promote same-sex sex.

The Pharisees were always testing and arguing with what Jesus taught so Jesus called them a brood of vipers. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Now the question is whats the truth, not whether we shout it or not.

 

[raphael_aa]

Sorry Rapael_aa,

LGCM is the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement as a representation of those who promote same-sex sex.

The Pharisees were always testing and arguing with what Jesus taught so Jesus called them a brood of vipers. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Now the question is whats the truth, not whether we shout it or not.

I think you've misinterpreted what I said. I wasn't talking about Jesus shouting. I was showing that the rich young man didn't get defensive when Jesus talked to him. Why? Because he recognized Jesus was 'speaking the truth in love'. Just speaking the truth is not enough.

I think to compare sins is a fruitlesss exercise. Just because Phelps quotes scripture to me seems irrelevant. Satan quotes scripture. It doesn't make his arguments or his attitude in any way sanctified. Even people who agree with you about scripture condemning all homosexual sex are repulsed by Phelps and his methods. Frankly for anyone to stand up for him in any way imo diminshes their credibility. He's not speaking the truth. He's selectively using scripture to justify his hatred, ignorance and prejudice.

 

[ahab]

Hi Rapael_aa,

I think you've misinterpreted what I said. I wasn't talking about Jesus shouting.

Yes I know, you were referring to the rich young ruler not yelling at Jesus because of the way Jesus had ‘got passed his defences’. The discussion was about how Phelps ‘shouting’ ‘sinners’ at the gay community will not witness the love of Jesus to them and I agree. Nevertheless do you think the truth that Jesus spoke to the Pharisees was on love when he called them a condemned brood of vipers?

So I agree with you just speaking the truth is not enough, we need to be care ful how and when we speak the truth.

Just because Phelps quotes scripture to me seems irrelevant. Satan quotes scripture. It doesn't make his arguments or his attitude in any way sanctified. Even people who agree with you about scripture condemning all homosexual sex are repulsed by Phelps and his methods. Frankly for anyone to stand up for him in any way imo diminshes their credibility. He's not speaking the truth. He's selectively using scripture to justify his hatred, ignorance and prejudice.he did not yell at Jesus I assume because the way Jesus said it got past his defenses. Too often our being 'right' is more imporetant to us than being effective.

No, now you are judging Phelps on what you have decided is the truth and that’s just your opinion and Phelps has as much right to quote whatever he likes at you as you have to criticise him. What I have been concerned with is a debate about the merits of what he is saying and the way he is saying it.
What the truth is, is very important Raphael_aa because if Phelps is right then what the LGCM is doing is a perversion of the gospel both in what they are doing and what they are promoting. Phelps has at least some scriptures to back up his perceived ‘hatred ignorance and prejudice’ of same-sex sex, you don’t have any scripture to back up your ‘hatred ignorance and prejudice’ of Phelps. Surely for both Phelps and yourself Jesus teaches us not to hate people or be prejudice against them. The truth remains Jesus, whats the truth?

 

[raphael_aa]

What the truth is, is very important Raphael_aa because if Phelps is right then what the LGCM is doing is a perversion of the gospel both in what they are doing and what they are promoting. Phelps has at least some scriptures to back up his perceived ‘hatred ignorance and prejudice’ of same-sex sex, you don’t have any scripture to back up your ‘hatred ignorance and prejudice’ of Phelps. Surely for both Phelps and yourself Jesus teaches us not to hate people or be prejudice against them. The truth remains Jesus, whats the truth?

Are you suggesting my concern with Phelps is hatred and ignorance and prejudice? lol

1 Peter 3:15; 1 Peter 4:8; Jude 22; Titus 3:1-3; Hebrews 12:14; James 2:13; James 1:26; 1 John 1:9

These are just a small sample of the scriptural principles that Phelps rides roughshod over. And by the same authority that you proclaim 'truth' to homosexuals, I'm proclaiming it to and about Phelps and his ilk.

 

[hernyaccent]

Hi hernyaccent,

Well I agree with your last post. Its not that I want to side with Phelps at all, I didn't propose him in the first place. As you say Phelps isnt going to be able tell of the gospel by telling people they are sinners. What my point was of course was neither are people being lead to Christ if they are being told they are not sinners, which of course is what groups like LGCM are doing. That just empties the power of the cross.
All I have shown is that at least what Phelps speaks has some credibility in scripture whereas what the LGCM speak doesn't. Its not good calling Phelps extreme, the extreme is clearly LGCM and the pro-same sex sex gay and lesbian groups, who call themselves brothers and sisters(1 Cor 5)
Amen! Bless you.

You are entitled to your views and I refuse to argue them with you. Lucky enough for me and so many others God is the ONLY judge and the ONLY one who knows the true nature of my heart.

In showing heterosexuals,homosexuals,whites,blacks and any other group God it's through love not my feelings on their lives. These lyrics my illustrate my view on this.

Don't look at me if you're looking for perfection
Don't look at me I will only let you down
I'll do my best to point you in the right directon
But don't look at me ,look at him

It's understandable to want a hero
But people can't meet all your expectations
Still some can teach you things about the love He brings
Just know the source of life is in the Savior

He's the One who lived a perfect life
He's the One who always gets it right
He's the One and only guiding light
He is everthing you want to be
He's the answer to your every need
If you follow Him then you will se He's like no other

 

[ahab]

Hi hernyaccent,



Sorry I thought we agreed? You wrote….

Phelps and others like him can continue to show people the negativity of Christianity while I will continue to show the homosexuals and others who take part in abominations that Christ is about LOVE.

I am just agreeing that its no good showing the negativity of Christianity or promoting the taking part in abominations neither of which show Christ’s love.

You are entitled to your views and I refuse to argue them with you.

Well we are on a debating forum and we are finding common ground aren’t we? Sorry what have I said to offend you?

 

[hernyaccent]

I am just agreeing that its no good showing the negativity of Christianity or promoting the taking part in abominations neither of which show Christ’s love.

I refuse to discuss this with you.

Well we are on a debating forum and we are finding common ground aren’t we? Sorry what have I said to offend you?

Our grounds are not common.

 

[ahab]

I am just agreeing that its no good showing the negativity of Christianity or promoting the taking part in abominations neither of which show Christ’s love.

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I refuse to discuss this with you.

Then why post it on a forum in a debate?

 

[hernyaccent]

Then why post it on a forum in a debate?

I debate with those who us logic and not twisting of words.

 

[ahab]

Hi hernyaccent,

What twisting of words, did you not write that? Whats going on? please explain my friend