Christianity's objective

[Zebra1552]

False question. I don't think that we have a problem aggreing on our goal as Christians. I am of an evangelical Christian faith and I would say that the vast majority of protestantism at least would agree with my assessment in my experience. And as far as others disagreeing I could care less, they are obviously lacking in understanding of Scripture. Scrripture when you read it is plain and clear to me.

It's only a false question because you dismiss the evidence sitting in front of you. The question still applies.

 

[chaoschristian]

Okay. Next question. If we, as Christians, cannot even agree on what our goal is as Christians, why do we follow it?

A lack of consensus does not necessarily indicate a lack of value.

 

[BereanTodd]

black is black and white is white. If it takes a concensus for something to be true, then Jesus was just a man and not God in the flesh, we need no savior and everyone is fine being his own moral authority. That is the thought of the world around us. We as Christians are the minority in the world today.

But that is not how truth is determined. Truth is truth whether everyone believes it or no one believes it. Very clearly Jesus continued to prepare the apostles for going out, His high priestly prayer was in large part focussed on sending them out, He gave multiple "great commisions" after that ... the purpose of the church is the carrying of the Gospel to the lost world around us, that much is plainly and clearly simple to see in the word of God.

 

[Zebra1552]

How can you follow a goal if you don't even agree on what that goal is?

 

[BereanTodd]

Well ultimately God works things out according to His will in the world around us. Rom 8:28 among other verses show this.

As far as us, we can make sure we are in His will by making sure that we are following His word, and His words to us are perfectly clear. If we muddle it up at times the fault is ours and not His.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

How can you follow a goal if you don't even agree on what that goal is?

Because a goal that is based on human agreement does not stop the living God. We don't have to know what the goal is as a whole, or what we are in agreement upon, but for those of us who are allowing God to do His will through us, whatever He wants accomplish will get done.

 

[LBP]

I don't think that we have a problem aggreing on our goal as Christians. I am of an evangelical Christian faith and I would say that the vast majority of protestantism at least would agree with my assessment in my experience. And as far as others disagreeing I could care less, they are obviously lacking in understanding of Scripture. Scrripture when you read it is plain and clear to me.

According to Christianity Today, "Christianity" comprises some 38,000 denominations. Not all of this fragmentation is attributable to disagreements as to what the “objective” of Christianity should be, but the mere existence of 38,000 denominations is enough in itself to show that Scripture is far from “plain and clear” and that a disagreement with one’s preferred interpretation doesn’t mean that everyone else “obviously” lacks understanding.

Even when it comes to what the Great Commission means and how it should be fulfilled, there are diverse strains of thought. Only today, I was reading an article by the Bishop of Oxford in which he chided evangelicals for their narrow understanding of the Great Commission. This narrow understanding, which I seem to see reflected here, puts the fulfillment of the Great Commission on the level of the sale of widgets rather than as something that arises out of the transformation of individual believers into people who love God and their neighbors. When I was with Campus Crusade many years ago, I recognized even as a 20-year-old that our zeal to fulfill the Great Commission was shallow and superficial and more like selling widgets than being disciples and leading others to become disciples (“50 people prayed the Jesus prayer with me at the parade today!”).

I actually saw the point that I have been making made quite effectively on another forum in a thread with the same title as this one: Someone named Tyler Joe in Australia said that what the posters were discussing were really the “fruits” of Christianity, not the “objective.” That same poster stated (quite profoundly, IMHO): “To give Christianity an objective is fruitless. Why? Because if there is an objective behind it that has been God ordained, understanding it would be virtually impossible for us. The things that come from being Christian, such as preaching the word, living a good life and loving others come from being Christian but the objective, the ‘purpose’ for Christianity, is known only to God. I would surmise it as (from God's perspective) ‘My people, living life with others all to glorify My Son.’”

 

[Zebra1552]

Well ultimately God works things out according to His will in the world around us. Rom 8:28 among other verses show this.

As far as us, we can make sure we are in His will by making sure that we are following His word, and His words to us are perfectly clear. If we muddle it up at times the fault is ours and not His.

If God is going to do it anyway, then we don't need to do anything. Good job.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

If God is going to do it anyway, then we don't need to do anything. Good job.

God is working through us.
Phil 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.​

 

[Zebra1552]

God is working through us.
Phil 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.​

That is in direct contrast to what was just claimed. Which is it?

 

[BereanTodd]

That is in direct contrast to what was just claimed. Which is it?

It's both. God's will is going to be completed and done, and He does so through free human agency. That's the God we serve.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

That is in direct contrast to what was just claimed. Which is it?

I was not reading your conversation with the other posters here, I just saw your question and answered it.

It is not a contradiction from Matthew 28:18-20 and Micah 6:8 which were the verses that I quoted. It is God working in us.

 

[Touma]

So what you all seem to be saying is that method doesn't matter, what matters is that the job gets done.

That could be argued, yes. For example, in Acts Paul and Barnabas split over methods (one wanted to take John Mark, the other didn't). Both went out and proclaimed the Glory of Jesus through the sacrifice on the Cross. Both 'won' souls for the kingdom, though having different 'methods'.

Another example is a personal one. Some Christians use the method of preaching the Gospel via street preaching, others via tracts. I personally preach the Gospel by becoming friends with people and letting Jesus shine through my actions and attitudes towards people. I am reaching people in a different way than others, but it does not mean their ways are wrong, nor are mine.

Methods matter not.


As for the goal of Christianity, I believe it is as simple as this: We do our best, being enlightened by the Wisdom of God, to teach/convince others to want to experience eternal fellowship with Him. The methods will vary on how we do this (preaching, promoting social justice, debates, writing books, etc).

The goal is meant to a little broad, because if we narrowed it down, then the Gospel would not be meant for all nations nor all people. Other religions teach you have to accept a certain language or culture to connect with their god fully, where as our God will connect to any language, any culture, any situation. The Gospel breaks all barriers.

 

[Aimiel]

I see the life of example as simply necessity. We're Christian, so naturally we act Christian. It isn't testimony. Only words make our testimony, so that others might learn from our experiences and repent. I believe that Lot and his family tried being a 'witness' to Sodom and Gomorrah. It didn't work. Jonah gave words to Nineveh, and they repented. It takes preaching The Kingdom for souls to be saved. If we aren't preaching The Kingdom to those who need it, whether it's because we don't 'feel' like preaching the cross or don't want to... whatever the reason... it doesn't matter; if we know someone is lost, and we don't preach to them, their blood will be required by our hand.

Ezekiel 3:18
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

God chose the 'foolishness' called preaching to spread The Gospel, not becoming friends and being shiny.

 

[Zebra1552]

It's both. God's will is going to be completed and done, and He does so through free human agency. That's the God we serve.

Either God has a plan or He doesn't. If, in his plan, he already allows for the choices we make as humans, it is not really a plan, it is something that has already been accomplished and is therefore not a plan, and he also then isn't working through humans, he's adjusting his own plan to suit us. So, let me ask you again. Does God have some awesome will that He's going to accomplish, or does He work through people?

 

[razeontherock]

Understanding arguments and debates is what I do for a living (lawyer)

The objective of Christianity is to allow for the ontological Being of the Life of God in Christ to be expressed in the character of our behavior unto the glory of God, rather than to engage in humanly conceived and executed utilitarian actions and religious endeavors."

The lawyer said exactly the same thing as the preceeding post, that the objective of Christianity is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

Different words, same point!

 

[Sojourner1]

Either God has a plan or He doesn't. If, in his plan, he already allows for the choices we make as humans, it is not really a plan, it is something that has already been accomplished and is therefore not a plan, and he also then isn't working through humans, he's adjusting his own plan to suit us. So, let me ask you again. Does God have some awesome will that He's going to accomplish, or does He work through people?

Do you think that God has a sovereign plan?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Either God has a plan or He doesn't. If, in his plan, he already allows for the choices we make as humans, it is not really a plan, it is something that has already been accomplished and is therefore not a plan, and he also then isn't working through humans, he's adjusting his own plan to suit us. So, let me ask you again. Does God have some awesome will that He's going to accomplish, or does He work through people?

The choices of man does not and cannot stop the plan of God.

God have an awesome will of which He accomplish through people.

 

[Zebra1552]

Do you think that God has a sovereign plan?

What I do or do not think isn't the topic of this thread. This is about you guys. I want to know what you think.

 

[Aimiel]

What I do or do not think isn't the topic of this thread. This is about you guys. I want to know what you think.

Why would you think we wouldn't want to know what YOU think?

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: