Idolatry

[NBB]

Then don't bow before idols. Seems easy enough.

But sacred images aren't idols.

-CryptoLutheran

Is so similar it seems fishy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Is so similar it seems fishy.

Then study the subject to help clear up whatever suspicions you harbor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

8th century is not early Christianity.

What late councils believed is not my concern as false beliefs had entered some churches and were separated from the truth.

What false beliefs?

Did you bother to look into why the Council came out against Iconoclasm? It's about the Incarnation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Daniel Carlton]

What false beliefs?

Did you bother to look into why the Council came out against Iconoclasm? It's about the Incarnation.

-CryptoLutheran

No I did not bother because the first three centuries are much more important for historical Christianity.

Which is more important: the first century or the eighth century, the second century or the sixteenth century?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I am currently reading through the first three centuries of church fathers and completed the majority. I will have the rest read before the end of the year, God willing.

And there seems to be a sin that is unanimously condemned by the early Christian writers - idolatry. And they define idolatry exactly how the second commandment describes it: you shall have no graven image, you shall not bow to them. So the making of something and venerating that created object.

Is this not a problem for certain churches who claim to be following apostolic teaching?

Your post will mostly likely get derailed several times. Two of the most powerful denominations do not agree with the Protestant view that " images" fall under the feared " graven" image. It really boils down to the individual because these denominations will deny any such thing as teaching the " worshipping" of an image.
The individual must ask themselves honestly, " am I supplicating to an image or directly to our Father.
Blessings

 

[ViaCrucis]

No I did not bother because the first three centuries are much more important for historical Christianity.

Which is more important: the first century or the eighth century, the second century or the sixteenth century?

It's not a competition. Christianity has been here proclaiming Good News for two thousand years. In the first and eighth, in the second and sixteenth.

I'm a Lutheran. That means I believe the 1500 years of Christianity before Luther also matters.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

No I did not bother

Then you are refusing to have an informed opinion on this subject. Until you actually put in effort to learn, then you are simply arguing ex ignorantiam.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Your post will mostly likely get derailed several times. Two of the most powerful denominations do not agree with the Protestant view that " images" fall under the feared " graven" image. It really boils down to the individual because these denominations will deny any such thing as teaching the " worshipping" of an image.
The individual must ask themselves honestly, " am I supplicating to an image or directly to our Father.
Blessings

Scripture presents the use of sacred images in the Holy of Holies itself.

What makes having an icon of Christ "idolatrous" but having golden cherubim upon the Ark not?

I don't worship icons of Christ. But holy icons confront me with the sacred and central truth claim of my religion: God became flesh.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Daniel Carlton]

Then you are refusing to have an informed opinion on this subject. Until you actually put in effort to learn, then you are simply arguing ex ignorantiam.

-CryptoLutheran

How much of the first, second and third century church fathers have you read?

 

[ViaCrucis]

How much of the first, second and third century church fathers have you read?

A sizeable amount, why do you ask?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Daniel Carlton]

Your post will mostly likely get derailed several times. Two of the most powerful denominations do not agree with the Protestant view that " images" fall under the feared " graven" image. It really boils down to the individual because these denominations will deny any such thing as teaching the " worshipping" of an image.
The individual must ask themselves honestly, " am I supplicating to an image or directly to our Father.
Blessings

You are right about the detailing. Especially from that Lutheran. I am beginning to think he is a pest.

 

[Daniel Carlton]

A sizeable amount, why do you ask?

-CryptoLutheran

Well you spoke of ignorance so I wondered how much of the early church you read. Your answer is very vague but it shows you have not really read the ancients.

No wonder you wanted to jump to the eighth century, you do not know the early church fathers.

I have almost completed the first three centuries, so when you catch up with me, we can have an informed conversation on that topic.

 

[public hermit]

How much of the first, second and third century church fathers have you read?

How about providing some quotes so we can get this show on the road? Present your evidence of what you have read, and then folks can agree/disagree.

 

[Daniel Carlton]

How about providing some quotes so we can get this show on the road? Present your evidence of what you have read, and then folks can agree/disagree.

I have plenty of quotes. I will start posting them tomorrow.

 

[RileyG]

Your post will mostly likely get derailed several times. Two of the most powerful denominations do not agree with the Protestant view that " images" fall under the feared " graven" image. It really boils down to the individual because these denominations will deny any such thing as teaching the " worshipping" of an image.
The individual must ask themselves honestly, " am I supplicating to an image or directly to our Father.
Blessings

I will add Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcoplians use icons and/or statues. Those are a large number of Protestants. I'm aware of some Methodists that do, as well.

 

[Lukaris]

A Christian should know their Savior ( John 1:1-5, John 1:14-18, John 3:16-21 etc.), how they are saved & to live by faith Ephesians 2:8-10, John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10 etc.). What ultimately idolatry is ( Colossians 3:1-5 etc.).

Freed from misconceptions and knowing the truth ( John 14:6, John 4:21-24 etc.) visual utilization via icons, statuary etc. in worship aid us in our faith ( Hebrews 11:1-49, Hebrews 12:1-2 etc).

I am not saying Protestants need to adopt this but just giving a perspective.

 

[RileyG]

A Christian should know their Savior ( John 1:1-5, John 1:14-18, John 3:16-21 etc.), how they are saved & to live by faith Ephesians 2:8-10, John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10 etc.). What ultimately idolatry is ( Colossians 3:1-5 etc.).

Freed from misconceptions and knowing the truth ( John 14:6, John 4:21-24 etc.) visual utilization via icons, statuary etc. in worship aid us in our faith ( Hebrews 11:1-49, Hebrews 12:1-2 etc).

I am not saying Protestants need to adopt this but just giving a perspective.

Thank you!