Christianity's objective

[chaoschristian]

I'm not referring to Christianity as a religion, so why should you or anyone else refer to it as such? I'm asking you, what are our beliefs for? What is the point of believing what we do? What reasons do we have to believe as we do, what is the purpose of our beliefs? What do we do with out beliefs?

Time to move beyond the propositional and into the praxis, eh?

 

[Zebra1552]

How involved are you in active, engaged and deeply meaningful ministry?

I ask this not to denouce or condemn you, but to get a sense of the framework from which you are operating.

To love God and love others as yourself, is neither vague nor overly broad, I think, once you've engaged in a ministry in which you really pour yourself out for the sake of 'the other.'

How does one love God?

Consider this. The other, better, way to translate the word 'love' in that context is 'charity.' God provides for us a grace that is unearned. In turn, provide an ever-giving-love for the sake of another(s) with no expectation of return or acknowledgement. Do it out of love for the love that God has given you. Then you will be loving God as the scriptures command.

As ebia said, the objective of the church is the realization of The Kingdom of God, The Now-And-Not-Yet, here on Earth.

The next question being, what then is The Kingdom of God?

I work with kids. Discipleship and mentoring, mostly.

 

[chaoschristian]

I work with kids. Discipleship and mentoring, mostly.

That's awesome.

Do you find it rewarding?

 

[Zebra1552]

That's awesome.

Do you find it rewarding?

Why would I do it if it wasn't? And how does that related to my questions?

 

[chaoschristian]

Why would I do it if it wasn't? And how does that related to my questions?

Many people do many things for many reasons.

It was just a question really. Just being friendly and all.

 

[BereanTodd]

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

That is the entire purpose of the church, it is the reason we are left here on this earth. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[BereanTodd]

The Great Commission (classic name for the passage you quoted) is the job of the Church, to be sure, but it is neither the only job of the Church nor the universal command to all Christians. For that you need to look at Matthew 22:34-40 and its parallels in Mark and Luke, Matthe 7:12, and John 13:31-35. Those are the commands to every Christian that were defined as greatest by our Lord and Savior.

I disagree most completely. For one the command of the Great Commission is absolutely to the whole church, and is reiterated in many, many places throughout the NT.

The greatest commandment and its correlary are important guides to our living and are to exemplify us - through living those things out we become a draw to the cross of Christ as we reflect back His character to the dark world around us. However, the purpose of the church remains - preach to all creation, baptise the nations, teach them to observe what Christ has commanded us.

 

[Zebra1552]

Todd, it seems like you're saying that we should be making Christians out of people no matter what, that that should be our goal and focus. Is that correct?

 

[BereanTodd]

Todd, it seems like you're saying that we should be making Christians out of people no matter what, that that should be our goal and focus. Is that correct?

Actually we were given two commands in that - one to lead people to faith in Christ (evangelism) two, to teach them to observe His commands (discipleship). That is the purpose of the church.

 

[Zebra1552]

Actually we were given two commands in that - one to lead people to faith in Christ (evangelism) two, to teach them to observe His commands (discipleship). That is the purpose of the church.

If that is the entire purpose of the church, then what happens to all the useful ministries that do not aim to 'fulfill' those goals but instead simply focus on loving people, like work with the homeless or building houses for those that have none?

 

[Aimiel]

You've described the purpose of religion, which is pure and undefiled before God. Christianity is destined to leave the one who we see who is homeless, to find the ninety and nine who are lost, spiritually.

 

[LBP]

IMHO, a simplistic (mis)understanding of the Great Commission is what has led to the bludgeon-you-over-the-head caricature of “Christianity” that now predominates. This “Christianity” is little more than just another business in the religion industry, and the Great Commission is little different from the CEO of Amalgamated Widgets telling the attendees at the annual convention of salespeople, “Get out there and make Amalgamated Widgets the number one widgets in the entire world!” As anyone who has ever been in business knows, to be a highly effective CEO of Amalgamated Widgets, or a highly successful salesmen of Amalgamated Widgets, does not necessarily require any sincere commitment to Amalgamated Widgets or any belief that Amalgamated Widgets are a superior product. Whether Jesus ever said anything resembling the Great Commission is the subject of considerable scholarly debate. Even if He did, what He meant by it is the subject of an equal amount of scholarly debate. To allow the Great Commission, and especially a simplistic reading of the Great Commission, to define one’s understanding of the objective of Christianity is (IMHO) a mistake. It’s difficult for me to see how one could go wrong by viewing the objective of Christianity as being the transformation of the individual, through his relationship with Christ, into someone who loves God with all his heart and his neighbor as himself, with the fulfillment of what I believe Jesus actually meant by the Great Commission flowing inevitably from that.

 

[Zebra1552]

You've described the purpose of religion, which is pure and undefiled before God. Christianity is destined to leave the one who we see who is homeless, to find the ninety and nine who are lost, spiritually.

Then what do you do with this:
Mat 25:34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'

 

[BereanTodd]

Because you have it completely backwards. If the goal of Christianity is this transformed life of holiness, then God should strike us dead the moment we come to faith, because as long as we live here on earth we will continue to make mistakes, fall short and do that which we shouldn't. However, Jesus did not give one Great Commission, He gave many. It was woven into His high-priestly prayer, it was in Matthew 28, the end of Mark, the begining of Acts ... again and again we are sent out to the world. The goal of the church is the salvation of the world, the carrying of the Gospel.

 

[Zebra1552]

Because you have it completely backwards. If the goal of Christianity is this transformed life of holiness, then God should strike us dead the moment we come to faith, because as long as we live here on earth we will continue to make mistakes, fall short and do that which we shouldn't. However, Jesus did not give one Great Commission, He gave many. It was woven into His high-priestly prayer, it was in Matthew 28, the end of Mark, the begining of Acts ... again and again we are sent out to the world. The goal of the church is the salvation of the world, the carrying of the Gospel.

Perhaps you can answer my question in response to your claim?

 

[BereanTodd]

If that is the entire purpose of the church, then what happens to all the useful ministries that do not aim to 'fulfill' those goals but instead simply focus on loving people, like work with the homeless or building houses for those that have none?

They are valuable ministries. We are still called to love God and love others. We are told that we will be known by our love. We should live out that love everywhere we go.

And guess what? Those homeless and house building ministries are great doors to the Gospel, and many such ministries such as Pacific Garden Missions in Chicago and Star of Hope in Houston lead literally thousands of souls a year to Christ.

Leading the world to salvation and through discipleship predisposes living a Christian life - loving God and others (the great commandment), living a life of good works (Eph 2:10). Those are all aspects of living a Christian life, but our purpose, our goal is to preach the word, to lead others to repentence and then train them to maturity to go out and do the same for others.

 

[Aimiel]

Then what do you do with this:
Mat 25:34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'

I'd say that The Lord knows how to guide His children in The Kingdom, to do His Will. I don't see a conflict with The Great Commission and the command to feed, clothe and welcome strangers with drink or a visit. The thing He wants to do is to challenge our daily grind, such that we come to Him, every single day for our Manna.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Again, broad, and very vague.

I agree, its clear as mud.

 

[Zebra1552]

Okay. Next question. If we, as Christians, cannot even agree on what our goal is as Christians, why do we follow it?

 

[BereanTodd]

Okay. Next question. If we, as Christians, cannot even agree on what our goal is as Christians, why do we follow it?

False question. I don't think that we have a problem aggreing on our goal as Christians. I am of an evangelical Christian faith and I would say that the vast majority of protestantism at least would agree with my assessment in my experience. And as far as others disagreeing I could care less, they are obviously lacking in understanding of Scripture. Scrripture when you read it is plain and clear to me.