Christianity on the wane?

[bling]

I’m a seeker. Looking at different religions, trying to find the truth

I do mostly one on one Bible studies and do not know lots about other religions except from my Muslim, Buddhas, Bihari and Hindu students. I try to be logical and use only the Bible to support my ideas.

Generally:

Without getting to philosophical: “Something has had to always exist, since it is illogical to think something comes from nothing. Now some atheists have tried to get around this by saying nothing is really “something” and there is no such thing as really “nothing”. The bottom line is there has always been something. Now did that something at least include intelligence or was it just mass/energy/time/space? The problem with “excluding” intelligence is there appears to be a huge amount of intelligence that went into the design of this universe especially life that makes it virtually impossible to happen by random “luck”. If there is one thing, we have learned it is: “the more we know the more we realize we do not know”, so that means an ever-increasing complex universe and the more complex it is the more random chances are needed to make the right conditions without intelligence and the more likely scenario is there was intelligence involved.

Everything needs to start with the objective.

If there is this eternal intelligence it would be at the epitome of the best it could be and not in the process of improvement. It would be the ultimate bad or good but not somewhere in-between. Why be bad when He can be good just as easily? The ultimate “good” would be what is called Godly type Love (to be defined later) and is a totally unselfish type Love. Since this God would be able to direct our thinking, why would He have us think of him as being totally bad, when He could make us think bad was good and thus, He would be worthy of praise? If God were bad and we praise a “Good God” than we are not praising Him.



The difference and issues begin with misunderstanding of the objective. Most Christians like: Man’s objective is to “bring glory to God” and have scripture references to support that objective, but a person can take any commandment of God given in scripture and have Biblical support for call that command: “Man’s objective”. We are certainly commanded to do that command, so why is it not man’s objective?

There are the two superior commands which all other commands are subordinate to and combined would be like: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy.” That appears to be man’s “Mission Statement”. The huge problem with fulfilling that “Mission Statement” is the fact that the “Love” needed would have to be huge, way beyond anything man could develop, learn, deserve, earn, pay back, be instinctive to man, or somehow just be forced upon humans.

Thus, the reason you have free will, is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world which includes satan roaming around is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like create another Christ, since Christ has always existed, the big impossibility for us is; create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

Read the story of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15, the young son was generously given more then he could, which the father would realize. The prodigal son returned to his father, not out of “Love”, but selfishly want a job he did not deserve or should even ask for. Just because the son became just willing to accept pure undeserved charity from the father he hated, allowed the father to shower him with gifts. God is that way with you.

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.

Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.



God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus we become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).

What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time.

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burden them, to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

Sin has purpose in helping willing humans in fulfilling their objective. God does not like it but allows it.

Unfortunately, I, along with others, needed to see and know the brevity of life in order to respond sooner than later. Time is not on our side, since we do not get better, but worse. If everyone had at least 60 years, there would be no rush to repent and repenting does not get easier with time. We all tend to spiral down into the pigsty of life (like the prodigal son) and that does help if when we do come to our senses we turn to the Father, but that does not take 60 years.

Let me just give you an example of How God works to help willing individuals.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

If the nonbeliever had knowledge of God's existence that person would not need faith in God's existence, but faith is needed for humility and humility is needed to humbly accept pure charity and the only way to get Godly type Love is through accepting it as pure charity in the form of forgiveness.

This also shows a “need” for man to sin.

That is an introduction to the huge topic of Love.

 

[TedT]

Or if you disagree that Christianity is on the decline, why?

The religion of Christ is not in decline but the number of elect is waning due to the fact that most of His elect have already been sanctified and passed on, leaving the churches and so called Christian culture to the goats and the few stubborn rebellious elect who still need a harsher discipline: Heb 12:5-11.

 

[Andrewn]

Last Sunday I listened to a preaching in local church and it was about Wisdom and basically atheistic and logical, very practical, but nothing truly spiritual at all. To me, it was dead boring. No, the preacher was a very talented speaker, young and truly humorous and sensitive, an intelligent, likeable person. His message was just not what you go to church for at all. Passionate vision is absent completely.

This gloom and doom, and negativity everywhere here is killing my soul. A positive and elevated look at human beings is lacking badly here.

Instead of the seekers getting uplifted by the message of Christ, you are the one providing an uplifting message. Shame on Christians. Unfortunately, I completely understand the type of sermon you heard last Sunday because it seems quite similar to the sermons I hear every Sunday and on TV. It is like stale bread, not bread of life. Initially, I attended many churches and many denominations and heard the same type of sermon. The message of Christ is absent. Pessimism is everywhere, probably related to certain types of theology and to end-of-the-world fetish, which has become widespread.

I just can’t reconcile the urgent, persistent and loving call of Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament and this lack of initiative and such indifferent and complacent acceptance of the current situation.

I bet that in early Christianity they preached about the Spirit of Christ, which you seem to understand well.

 

[Albion]

You belong to the Anglican Church of Canada, I take it.

 

[Andrewn]

Pentecostalism was alive years ago, when I left the Presbyterian church I was attending. As a person who occasionally attends Pentecostal churches, I can tell you that the movement is dead as a door nail. What killed it was not science but anti-science. Dispensationalism acted it and turned it into a pessimistic, end of the world, all is going to destruction movement with the only hope in a speedy rapture!

 

[Andrewn]

I’m a seeker. Looking at different religions, trying to find the truth

Mat 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

You're not looking for religion, you're looking for God. You can find some truth in many religions. But Jesus Christ is himself Truth. His Church is alive and well, even if many churches are not. I see Him glorified daily in interdenominational services for the poor and the socially marginalized. His friendship is life-giving.

 

[hedrick]

Pentecostalism was alive years ago, when I left the Presbyterian church I was attending. As a person who occasionally attends Pentecostal churches, I can tell you that the movement is dead as a door nail. What killed it was not science but anti-science. Dispensationalism acted it and turned it into a pessimistic, end of the world, all is going to destruction movement with the only hope in a speedy rapture!

I don’t think that is true globally. However the whole topic of this thread is really about the US and Europe, which is what you’re referring to.

 

[Andrewn]

You belong to the Anglican Church of Canada, I take it.

Yes. My church prides itself on having a traditional service and an evangelical service on Sundays. I attended there regularly when we had a wonderful Charismatic pastor. The current pastor is still not liberal. But he is more or less a baptist in Anglican clothes.

 

[Faithful777]

Hello.
I’m observing Christianity and looking at the past history of it, recent and more distant, I can see Christian religious institutions across the board are waning. The traditional values are decaying, the strength of faith is crumpling. The most affected are the young generation, which is especially aided by the digital world of gadgets and the Internet (yes, I’m typing it on my device screen )

What I see as the baseline of the problem is anything real is disappearing, and only profiteering is remaining. This shocks me as it comes in a stark contrast with the essence of Jesus Christ’s teaching, love. Instead of emanating and teaching love, Christianity became introverted and utilitarian.

Hello, do we agree that Christianity since the examples in the scriptures, of love by sincerity, by those great teaching examples of the good Samaritan, being unlike the religious people of the time, helped, was neighbour.

Then, Christianity ran into certain difficulties, that the faithful ones were gone, and who was left, could begin churches, like Constantine began ( as soldiers killing in the name of the cross)

Then we see Catholic and Protestant wars, and nobody such as Jesus Christ was around to stop that perversion of the faith, because it never was intended to be preserved.


In some, persecuted, outcast, such as Jesus and His own Holy Apostles, the faith would hide away in a remnant, until these last days, when even that remnant ran out. The revivals were a great opportunity to have fulfilled what God spoke of and shown on the thread, of love waxing cold and many false prophets) teachers) rising to deceive even many more.


What you have now is a repeat of the scene in the days of Noah, it happened in the time of Noah, because nobody was around to teach by example of God ( because the old world was destined to be destroyed)


That was why Christ went away, why Paul spoke of th wolves entering the flock when he died, and why things went away from goodness even then, and why they are so apparently evil now, nobody will miss it, and they all knew somehow then, that it was the end of all things.


Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.


Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[aiki]

Hello.
I’m observing Christianity and looking at the past history of it, recent and more distant, I can see Christian religious institutions across the board are waning.

Oh? I don't. In Africa, southeast Asia and South America, Christianity is on the rise.

The traditional values are decaying, the strength of faith is crumpling. The most affected are the young generation, which is especially aided by the digital world of gadgets and the Internet (yes, I’m typing it on my device screen )

Cultures rise and fall, grow to power and then collapse. It's human nature to succeed and then in the midst of success grow complacent, careless and self-destructive. Out from under God's control, whatever human beings touch they corrupt, or are corrupted by.

What I see as the baseline of the problem is anything real is disappearing, and only profiteering is remaining.

No, the root problem is the wicked human heart. The wickedness of the human being taints everything human beings touch. What you describe here is just the symptom of, the manifestation of, human wickedness.

This shocks me as it comes in a stark contrast with the essence of Jesus Christ’s teaching, love. Instead of emanating and teaching love, Christianity became introverted and utilitarian.

For some perhaps it has, but not for all - or even most.

Mind you, the core of Christ's teaching wasn't love but holiness. It is God's perfect holiness and our profound unholiness that required Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Love prompted the sacrifice as a solution to the rift between us and our holy Maker, but our unholiness was what caused the rift in the first place. Until we solve the holiness problem, we are all of us doomed to an eternity apart from our holy Creator. But all may find God's perfect holiness in Jesus. They can take on his perfect righteousness and so stand accepted by God. This is the essential teaching of Christ of which God's love is a part.

Or if you disagree that Christianity is in decline, why?

I have lived within the Christian community all my life. It is not, as far as I can see, in decline. There are liberal, strongly culturally-influenced communities within Christianity that are in decline because they are not truly Christian, but this is what God says will always happen to such communities. He is not among them; His power is absent from their community and so they are, in time, simply absorbed into the darkness of the world around them.

 

[Faithful777]

Christianity has turned into loving your own self, lover of pleasure...


2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Carbon]

Christianity will evolve or die. Just as it has always been.

Christianity has been most successful when it is crypto-liberal. That is, when it adapts with the times but, through clever sleight of hand, convinces itself that the new version was actually the original intent.

For example, Jesus and Paul thought the world was going to end within their contemporaries’ lifetimes. Indeed their entire moral program only makes sense in light of this assumption. But later Christian generations, noticing the world was very much still around, softened and allegoricalized the original apocalypticism into a version palatable for their day. Had these late first century reformers not been willing to reinvent their religion it would have died on the vine.

Likewise King Josiah “found” the deuteronomic history, unifying 2 different Levantine religions. The northern religion of El and the southern religion of Yaweh came together for the first time as one Jerusalem cult. Their books were beautifully woven together to form the Torah. Without Josiah’s “discovery” there would be no Judaism, and thus no Christianity. But according to Josiah's framing, t'was always thus.

Likewise Christianity’s various Bibles are uniformly supportive of, or indifferent to, slavery. But 19th century abolitionists “found” anti-slavery arguments in their scriptures which proved vital for levelling-up Christianity into the 20th century.

Steven Colbert’s America Again illustrates the point brilliantly - by the way he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this. The critical move is in the subtitle: “Re-become the greatness we never weren’t”. “Re-become” because the new version is genuinely novel and necessary to stay relevant in an ever-changing world. At the same time you must vehemently deny that the new version is new because admitting you have changed the religion for the better implies that the original version was flawed. Can’t have that.

How specifically does Christianity need to level-up to survive the 21st century?

1. Abandon the deadends of teleology, science-denialism, and sanctity-of-life nonsense.
2. Get on the right side of history. Become a voice in the wilderness fighting for truly marginalized people: children, the elderly, sex slaves, and colonial people around the world including colonists of America. Seriously, do this quickly while we secular liberals are distracted with our cosmetic snowflake Twitter crusades.
3. Embrace psychedelics. Transcendent experiences are available legally now folks, get on the bandwagon. Imagine an ayahuasca trip where the acolyte relives the transfixiation. Actually you don’t have to. Santo Daime and the União do Vegetal have already done it.
4. “Find” Jesus version 6.0 - A Jesus that sacralizes true human connection above social media, holds leaders accountable, and champions the free exchange of ideas.

Will this happen? I am confident Christianity will evolve and survive this century. Whether it evolves as I have predicted or finds better ways, time will tell.

 

[James_Lai]

Christianity will evolve or die. Just as it has always been.

Christianity has been most successful when it is crypto-liberal. That is, when it adapts with the times but, through clever sleight of hand, convinces itself that the new version was actually the original intent.

For example, Jesus and Paul thought the world was going to end within their contemporaries’ lifetimes. Indeed their entire moral program only makes sense in light of this assumption. But later Christian generations, noticing the world was very much still around, softened and allegoricalized the original apocalypticism into a version palatable for their day. Had these late first century reformers not been willing to reinvent their religion it would have died on the vine.

Likewise King Josiah “found” the deuteronomic history, unifying 2 different Levantine religions. The northern religion of El and the southern religion of Yaweh came together for the first time as one Jerusalem cult. Their books were beautifully woven together to form the Torah. Without Josiah’s “discovery” there would be no Judaism, and thus no Christianity. But according to Josiah's framing, t'was always thus.

Likewise Christianity’s various Bibles are uniformly supportive of, or indifferent to, slavery. But 19th century abolitionists “found” anti-slavery arguments in their scriptures which proved vital for levelling-up Christianity into the 20th century.

Steven Colbert’s America Again illustrates the point brilliantly - by the way he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this. The critical move is in the subtitle: “Re-become the greatness we never weren’t”. “Re-become” because the new version is genuinely novel and necessary to stay relevant in an ever-changing world. At the same time you must vehemently deny that the new version is new because admitting you have changed the religion for the better implies that the original version was flawed. Can’t have that.

How specifically does Christianity need to level-up to survive the 21st century?

1. Abandon the deadends of teleology, science-denialism, and sanctity-of-life nonsense.
2. Get on the right side of history. Become a voice in the wilderness fighting for truly marginalized people: children, the elderly, sex slaves, and colonial people around the world including colonists of America. Seriously, do this quickly while we secular liberals are distracted with our cosmetic snowflake Twitter crusades.
3. Embrace psychedelics. Transcendent experiences are available legally now folks, get on the bandwagon. Imagine an ayahuasca trip where the acolyte relives the transfixiation. Actually you don’t have to. Santo Daime and the União do Vegetal have already done it.
4. “Find” Jesus version 6.0 - A Jesus that sacralizes true human connection above social media, holds leaders accountable, and champions the free exchange of ideas.

Will this happen? I am confident Christianity will evolve and survive this century. Whether it evolves as I have predicted or finds better ways, time will tell.

Very interesting analysis, thank you

 

[bling]

Christianity will evolve or die. Just as it has always been.

Christianity has been most successful when it is crypto-liberal. That is, when it adapts with the times but, through clever sleight of hand, convinces itself that the new version was actually the original intent.

For example, Jesus and Paul thought the world was going to end within their contemporaries’ lifetimes. Indeed their entire moral program only makes sense in light of this assumption. But later Christian generations, noticing the world was very much still around, softened and allegoricalized the original apocalypticism into a version palatable for their day. Had these late first century reformers not been willing to reinvent their religion it would have died on the vine.

Likewise King Josiah “found” the deuteronomic history, unifying 2 different Levantine religions. The northern religion of El and the southern religion of Yaweh came together for the first time as one Jerusalem cult. Their books were beautifully woven together to form the Torah. Without Josiah’s “discovery” there would be no Judaism, and thus no Christianity. But according to Josiah's framing, t'was always thus.

Likewise Christianity’s various Bibles are uniformly supportive of, or indifferent to, slavery. But 19th century abolitionists “found” anti-slavery arguments in their scriptures which proved vital for levelling-up Christianity into the 20th century.

Steven Colbert’s America Again illustrates the point brilliantly - by the way he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this. The critical move is in the subtitle: “Re-become the greatness we never weren’t”. “Re-become” because the new version is genuinely novel and necessary to stay relevant in an ever-changing world. At the same time you must vehemently deny that the new version is new because admitting you have changed the religion for the better implies that the original version was flawed. Can’t have that.

How specifically does Christianity need to level-up to survive the 21st century?

1. Abandon the deadends of teleology, science-denialism, and sanctity-of-life nonsense.
2. Get on the right side of history. Become a voice in the wilderness fighting for truly marginalized people: children, the elderly, sex slaves, and colonial people around the world including colonists of America. Seriously, do this quickly while we secular liberals are distracted with our cosmetic snowflake Twitter crusades.
3. Embrace psychedelics. Transcendent experiences are available legally now folks, get on the bandwagon. Imagine an ayahuasca trip where the acolyte relives the transfixiation. Actually you don’t have to. Santo Daime and the União do Vegetal have already done it.
4. “Find” Jesus version 6.0 - A Jesus that sacralizes true human connection above social media, holds leaders accountable, and champions the free exchange of ideas.

Will this happen? I am confident Christianity will evolve and survive this century. Whether it evolves as I have predicted or finds better ways, time will tell.

I would say the opposite.

The liberal transitioning of the “Christian” Church does not create sincere devout (willing to die for the cause) Christians. The Church in the West is dying and will continue to die off, but the Church in the East China, N. Korea, India and Vietnam, the Church in Muslim nations and in Africa are growing strong in: number, Spiritually, and trying to be more first century.

 

[Carbon]

I would say the opposite.

The liberal transitioning of the “Christian” Church does not create sincere devout (willing to die for the cause) Christians. The Church in the West is dying and will continue to die off, but the Church in the East China, N. Korea, India and Vietnam, the Church in Muslim nations and in Africa are growing strong in: number, Spiritually, and trying to be more first century.

The whole "conservatives save religion, liberals ruin it" trope is obviously psychologically necessary in conservative circles but it is not historically defensible. As the examples above and countless others illustrate, each religious innovation is an act of liberal thought. Everything conservatives believe today about their religion comes from what was, at the time of its creation, a liberal innovation. An idea that did not exist, until it did.

Josiah liberally created proto-Judaism from disparate Levantine faiths. Jesus liberally remixed Judaism. Paul liberally remixed Jesus. Were Jesus and Paul not "liberals willing to die for the cause?" Perhaps you will say Josiah, Jesus, and Paul were not liberal. They were simply reaffirming what was always there. But then our interpretation of Christian history will have fallen into self-parody via the Colbert trap: "Re-becoming the greatness it never wasn't"

 

[James_Lai]

Christianity will evolve or die. Just as it has always been.

Christianity has been most successful when it is crypto-liberal. That is, when it adapts with the times but, through clever sleight of hand, convinces itself that the new version was actually the original intent.

For example, Jesus and Paul thought the world was going to end within their contemporaries’ lifetimes. Indeed their entire moral program only makes sense in light of this assumption. But later Christian generations, noticing the world was very much still around, softened and allegoricalized the original apocalypticism into a version palatable for their day. Had these late first century reformers not been willing to reinvent their religion it would have died on the vine.

Likewise King Josiah “found” the deuteronomic history, unifying 2 different Levantine religions. The northern religion of El and the southern religion of Yaweh came together for the first time as one Jerusalem cult. Their books were beautifully woven together to form the Torah. Without Josiah’s “discovery” there would be no Judaism, and thus no Christianity. But according to Josiah's framing, t'was always thus.

Likewise Christianity’s various Bibles are uniformly supportive of, or indifferent to, slavery. But 19th century abolitionists “found” anti-slavery arguments in their scriptures which proved vital for levelling-up Christianity into the 20th century.

Steven Colbert’s America Again illustrates the point brilliantly - by the way he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this. The critical move is in the subtitle: “Re-become the greatness we never weren’t”. “Re-become” because the new version is genuinely novel and necessary to stay relevant in an ever-changing world. At the same time you must vehemently deny that the new version is new because admitting you have changed the religion for the better implies that the original version was flawed. Can’t have that.

How specifically does Christianity need to level-up to survive the 21st century?

1. Abandon the deadends of teleology, science-denialism, and sanctity-of-life nonsense.
2. Get on the right side of history. Become a voice in the wilderness fighting for truly marginalized people: children, the elderly, sex slaves, and colonial people around the world including colonists of America. Seriously, do this quickly while we secular liberals are distracted with our cosmetic snowflake Twitter crusades.
3. Embrace psychedelics. Transcendent experiences are available legally now folks, get on the bandwagon. Imagine an ayahuasca trip where the acolyte relives the transfixiation. Actually you don’t have to. Santo Daime and the União do Vegetal have already done it.
4. “Find” Jesus version 6.0 - A Jesus that sacralizes true human connection above social media, holds leaders accountable, and champions the free exchange of ideas.

Will this happen? I am confident Christianity will evolve and survive this century. Whether it evolves as I have predicted or finds better ways, time will tell.

There’s so much you can adapt a text to new ideas though… And if the new ideas require a greater stretch of the text, then it becomes harder to widely accept. Great fragmentization of Christianity is the proof of that I think. Very hard to unify the fragments. So even if some of the denominations evolves, it would be hard to influence others to follow suit. Some Christianities could be farther away from each other than, say, a form of Christianity and Islam.

You don’t consider purposes though. Replace or modify teachings to fit modern-day thought. Why? Only to survive? To remain relevant? Then Christianity is only a derivative. If we determine purposes then Christianity can truly lead, which is imperative for success I believe.

I would add, to toss away imminent end of the world and the narrow gate for all times ideas. Two of the most destructive poisons for effectiveness and aliveness of Christianity in my opinion. The verses that are interpreted to say there would be a small number of converts or that many in the church would miss salvation are vague or can be taken to mean they were directed at contemporaries of Jesus/Paul etc

Contradicting “push and pull” teachings in general are to watch out for… They are major obstacles for Christianity to be positive and powerful.

About purpose, the big question is, how we approach transcendental/metaphysical vs. existentialist/physical. Also theoretical vs empirical. Truth is a single most definitive and powerful factor. For the material it’s easier for us, as we have perception and logical apparatus of intelligence of the mind. For the idealistic, it’s way harder. Very few are able to master any kind of proficiency there.

 

[James_Lai]

Christianity will evolve or die. Just as it has always been.

Christianity has been most successful when it is crypto-liberal. That is, when it adapts with the times but, through clever sleight of hand, convinces itself that the new version was actually the original intent.

For example, Jesus and Paul thought the world was going to end within their contemporaries’ lifetimes. Indeed their entire moral program only makes sense in light of this assumption. But later Christian generations, noticing the world was very much still around, softened and allegoricalized the original apocalypticism into a version palatable for their day. Had these late first century reformers not been willing to reinvent their religion it would have died on the vine.

Likewise King Josiah “found” the deuteronomic history, unifying 2 different Levantine religions. The northern religion of El and the southern religion of Yaweh came together for the first time as one Jerusalem cult. Their books were beautifully woven together to form the Torah. Without Josiah’s “discovery” there would be no Judaism, and thus no Christianity. But according to Josiah's framing, t'was always thus.

Likewise Christianity’s various Bibles are uniformly supportive of, or indifferent to, slavery. But 19th century abolitionists “found” anti-slavery arguments in their scriptures which proved vital for levelling-up Christianity into the 20th century.

Steven Colbert’s America Again illustrates the point brilliantly - by the way he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this. The critical move is in the subtitle: “Re-become the greatness we never weren’t”. “Re-become” because the new version is genuinely novel and necessary to stay relevant in an ever-changing world. At the same time you must vehemently deny that the new version is new because admitting you have changed the religion for the better implies that the original version was flawed. Can’t have that.

How specifically does Christianity need to level-up to survive the 21st century?

1. Abandon the deadends of teleology, science-denialism, and sanctity-of-life nonsense.
2. Get on the right side of history. Become a voice in the wilderness fighting for truly marginalized people: children, the elderly, sex slaves, and colonial people around the world including colonists of America. Seriously, do this quickly while we secular liberals are distracted with our cosmetic snowflake Twitter crusades.
3. Embrace psychedelics. Transcendent experiences are available legally now folks, get on the bandwagon. Imagine an ayahuasca trip where the acolyte relives the transfixiation. Actually you don’t have to. Santo Daime and the União do Vegetal have already done it.
4. “Find” Jesus version 6.0 - A Jesus that sacralizes true human connection above social media, holds leaders accountable, and champions the free exchange of ideas.

Will this happen? I am confident Christianity will evolve and survive this century. Whether it evolves as I have predicted or finds better ways, time will tell.

Another level of consideration could be Global focus as opposed to regional or nationalistic.

Nations due to vehicles of transportation being very slow, with small load capacity and incapable or having great difficuoty to traverse physical geographical boundaries such as mountain ranges, oceans or deserts, were established and evolved in isolation of varying degress.

The past 500 hundred years or so for the first time in 2-billion year Homo Sapiens history, have been moving fast to convert the planet into one global society… The process is still very much ongoing. So many clashes and contradictions. “Us and them”. But also mutual enrichment.

For an ideology to be viable, it’s to become more global, unversal across nations. The ideas of the chosen people, of national pride/superiority and national futuristic hopes (Heavenly Jerusalem) are to be re-thought in the truly global and equal terms

 

[bling]

The whole "conservatives save religion, liberals ruin it" trope is obviously psychologically necessary in conservative circles but it is not historically defensible. As the examples above and countless others illustrate, each religious innovation is an act of liberal thought. Everything conservatives believe today about their religion comes from what was, at the time of its creation, a liberal innovation. An idea that did not exist, until it did.

Josiah liberally created proto-Judaism from disparate Levantine faiths. Jesus liberally remixed Judaism. Paul liberally remixed Jesus. Were Jesus and Paul not "liberals willing to die for the cause?" Perhaps you will say Josiah, Jesus, and Paul were not liberal. They were simply reaffirming what was always there. But then our interpretation of Christian history will have fallen into self-parody via the Colbert trap: "Re-becoming the greatness it never wasn't"

It is much more then just an idea.

 

[Albion]

The whole "conservatives save religion, liberals ruin it" trope is obviously psychologically necessary in conservative circles but it is not historically defensible.

Yeh, it is defensible. There are exceptions of course, just as there are bound to be with most historical generalizations, but Conservatism, being built upon religious faith and values, has always been the adversary of all movements which minimize religion or outright oppose it.

 

[Carbon]

if the new ideas require a greater stretch of the text, then it becomes harder to widely accept. Great fragmentization of Christianity is the proof

Fragmentation in Christianity is a feature not a bug. Christianity doesn't need uniformity or even unity to survive. What it needs is to fill as many branches on the religious tree as possible while plausibly self-reporting "Christian".

Some Christianities could be farther away from each other than, say, a form of Christianity and Islam.

Excellent observation. Ironically the Christianities that are closest to each other are most antagonistic to each other. For example, evangelical Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses agree on much more than, say, Baptists and Catholics. Yet Catholics are brothers and sisters and JW are "heretics".

Replace or modify teachings to fit modern-day thought. Why? Only to survive? To remain relevant?

Innovations in religion have both a objectively functional purpose and a subjectively claimed purpose. These two are often different and there is no reason the innovators need even be consciously aware of their idea's functional purpose. The forgers who wrote the pastoral letters in Paul's name may well have thought they were acting morally (the subjective purpose), but the functional purpose (i.e., the result) of their insistence on a church hierarchy, suppression of women, and conservative family values was to change the church so it would survive for the long haul. The apocalyptic moral program of Jesus and Paul was not sustainable because apparently the world wasn't going anywhere any time soon.

toss away imminent end of the world and the narrow gate for all times ideas

Agreed that these can never be a stable feature of any majority party in Christendom. But they are extremely viable niches that will always have a non-trivial subscriber base.

big question is, how we approach transcendental/metaphysical vs. existentialist/physical.

I think whether this dualism adds much to the equation depends on the details, so maybe you could elaborate there.