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Christianity... and the fact of evolution

Paul of Eugene OR

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That is a hardly an argument!
Show me where Jesus and the apostles questioned the accuracy of the Scriptures?
Examples of figurative speech (like sunrise, sunset etc) are not errors.

You really do need to address the issue of Adam & Eve in the NT because the evolution of humans from animals depends on you discrediting all these NT references.

The evolution of humans from animals does not rest on what people think the bible says about it. The evolution of humans from animals is established on hard won, extensive, available scientific evidence.

Just like the question of the movement of the sun as the cause of day and night. It is actually the rotation of the earth, contrary to the literal words of scripture.
 
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dad

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The evolution of humans from animals is established on hard won, extensive, available scientific evidence.
Nothing but a demonic religion with actually no basis in fact at all. The fact that we have some slow evolving in nature today does not mean that every ape skull that somewhat resembles a man's is related.
Just like the question of the movement of the sun as the cause of day and night. It is actually the rotation of the earth, contrary to the literal words of scripture.
Baloney.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Nothing but a demonic religion with actually no basis in fact at all. The fact that we have some slow evolving in nature today does not mean that every ape skull that somewhat resembles a man's is related.
Baloney.

Oh, you replied again with nothing but a denial! Well, I'm glad to present a little more evidence for evolution that you can deny.

You and I share a coccyx. It is clearly a remnant of a tail.
 
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ken777

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The evolution of humans from animals does not rest on what people think the bible says about it. The evolution of humans from animals is established on hard won, extensive, available scientific evidence.
The fossil record, structural & DNA similarities, adaptation and vestigial organs are evidence that is interpreted to support evolution as the most logical conclusion because God cannot be a part of any scientific explanation. Christians have a different perspective.

Just like the question of the movement of the sun as the cause of day and night. It is actually the rotation of the earth, contrary to the literal words of scripture.
When critics have to use "the going down of the sun" as an example of errors in the Bible then we know they are really desperate.
 
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mmksparbud

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Just like the question of the movement of the sun as the cause of day and night. It is actually the rotation of the earth, contrary to the literal words of scripture.


The bible does not say anything about the sun in regards to day and night as the 1st 4 days were without a sun. Light and darkness without the sun for 4 days--it is because of the rotation of the earth, not because of the sun. As for what is meant by light and darkness---go back over some of these posts.
 
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mmksparbud

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Oh, you replied again with nothing but a denial! Well, I'm glad to present a little more evidence for evolution that you can deny.

You and I share a coccyx. It is clearly a remnant of a tail.

What was the function of coccyx?
The coccyx serves as an attachment site for tendons, ligaments, and muscles. It also functions as an insertion point of some of the muscles of the pelvic floor. The coccyx also functions to support and stabilize a person while he or she is in a sitting position.
Coccyx Area, Anatomy & Function | Body Maps - Healthline
www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/coccyx
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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The fossil record, structural & DNA similarities, adaptation and vestigial organs are evidence that is interpreted to support evolution as the most logical conclusion because God cannot be a part of any scientific explanation. Christians have a different perspective.

Yes, all that happens happens due to the actions of God. What we call the laws of science are the actions that God always does in the same way time after time. What we call miracles are when God acts differently on rare occasions for His purposes.

When critics have to use "the going down of the sun" as an example of errors in the Bible then we know they are really desperate.

The transition of theologians from believing that the sun went around the earth to believing that the earth rotates as the cause of day and night is complete. It is recorded in history, however, that this required a struggle, as does now the struggle of some against evolution.

Should our Lord tarry, the deniers of evolution will become as rare as the flat earth society members of today.
 
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AV1611VET

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ken777

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Yes, all that happens happens due to the actions of God. What we call the laws of science are the actions that God always does in the same way time after time. What we call miracles are when God acts differently on rare occasions for His purposes.
The transition of theologians from believing that the sun went around the earth to believing that the earth rotates as the cause of day and night is complete. It is recorded in history, however, that this required a struggle, as does now the struggle of some against evolution.
Should our Lord tarry, the deniers of evolution will become as rare as the flat earth society members of today.
The rotation/revolution of the earth is not a theological issue (though some in a rather vicious church made it so) but the creation of humans and the fall and redemption of humankind is all linked together. There is a need to discredit the NT writers so the evolution of humans from animals can thrive. And those who hold to NT teaching are indeed becoming rare.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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The picture of an embryo....can you identify the species?
 

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Indent

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The fossil record, structural & DNA similarities, adaptation and vestigial organs are evidence that is interpreted to support evolution as the most logical conclusion because God cannot be a part of any scientific explanation. Christians have a different perspective.


When critics have to use "the going down of the sun" as an example of errors in the Bible then we know they are really desperate.


There's no need for me to "discredit" the NT authors.

If God communicated through these people, it remained within the boundaries of their cultural limitations.

The objections to evolution aren't not based on reasoning, but doctrinaire adherence to fundamentalist principles. There's no shortage of evidence for evolution.
 
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pat34lee

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God defines days in verse 5 as light and darkness night. If the sun wasnt created until day 4 what did he mean when he said light and day and morning?
It WAS a literal day based on light and dark cycles, but they lasted longer than they do today because our orbit around the sun wasnt established yet.

God didn't need the sun or moon or a wristwatch to tell time.
HE CREATED TIME.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Oh, you replied again with nothing but a denial! Well, I'm glad to present a little more evidence for evolution that you can deny.

You and I share a coccyx. It is clearly a remnant of a tail.

ha-ha-ha...
why couldn't the LORD create mankind and animals in just the fashion we now find them and foresee that the theory of evolution would crop up and become a stumbling block for many?
He foresaw all manner of godlessness!

Romans 1:18-20:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

and...

Romans 1:25:
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
 
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pat34lee

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Oh, you replied again with nothing but a denial! Well, I'm glad to present a little more evidence for evolution that you can deny.

You and I share a coccyx. It is clearly a remnant of a tail.

It is no remnant of anything. It is being used by our body as an
attachment site for tendons, ligaments, and muscles.
Just as it should in a body created by God.
 
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klutedavid

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Biblical Christians are able to harmonize the 4 Gospels accounts of the resurrection of Jesus. There really is no need for this sort of misunderstanding in these days of computers.
Hello Ken.

These four accounts cannot be reconciled, Ken, each account is a different description
of the same event. Ultimately, whether there was one or two angels, whether they were
standing or sitting, is in the end, irrelevant. The Gospels are solely about Jesus Christ of
course.

Not all Biblical Christians accept that all the scripture is inerrant.

When God speaks through a prophet, that is inerrant.
When a prophet receives a vision from God, that is inerrant.
Messianic prophecies are inerrant.
When Jesus speaks, that is inerrant.

There is a vast difference between God speaking directly to us or to Israel.
And men describing what happened during Christ's life.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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The bible does not say anything about the sun in regards to day and night as the 1st 4 days were without a sun. Light and darkness without the sun for 4 days--it is because of the rotation of the earth, not because of the sun. As for what is meant by light and darkness---go back over some of these posts.

Oh, I think the whole first chapter is actually a poetic parable. Men at the time of the writing of the Bible were quite unable to take the literal truth about the universe at the time. It was actually a great achievement of God to get His word to say so little about creation so that man's mistaken ideas of the time would not be, later, much of an impediment.
 
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Jamie Lee

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I do not see any co-relation between Alaska's dark times and reading that Gen. means thousands of years of darkness. In Alaska it is not pitch black, without any sunlight at all-- and it lasts a few months---not thousands of years. A day is set by rotation of the earth---everything in the Gen. account is what is happening on earth, not on Jupiter or anywhere else, so we should keep it to the earth. God's universe is not limited to this, and in His realm one day may last a thousand years. but He is talking about this earth, the times He set up for this world and He works with us within those times. He set up light and darkness without the sun---that is obvious. It is also obvious that He chose to offer no explanation for how He accomplished that. How much is the difference between light and darkness? When it is pitch black, there is no light--one candle is a lot of light in comparison. There is also the invisible light, it is still light and is very much real. There is also light that is seeping in from far off quasars. It is enough to know that He set up no light, and light. There is just no way to make this light and darkness that he calls one day--mean 1000's of years for each segment. Was Adam all alone except for animals, for 1000's of years before God finally figured out that He needed Eve? It took 6 days. the vegetation was in day 3---that means that there were several times were that vegetation would have had 1000's of years spend in darkness for each of those other 3 days. And Adam would have been in darkness for 1000's of years after he was formed. It just doesn't add up.
Well, with all due respect, you dont quite seem to be grasping my point about how orbiting around God could affect the worlds light and dark cycle.

Today, the earth revolves around the sun at the rate it does, with the tilt it has, and that is what we base our days on. Scientifically, we base a day on the revolution of the earth. So we have set 24 hour periods to be our definition of a day. However, Biblically, when you read Genesis 1, God calls the light "day". He also tells Israelites to celebrate the Sabbath day on Friday at sundown, til Saturday at sundown. Thus, the Biblical definition of a day is flexible. It doesnt mean exactly 24 hours. We start a new day at midnight. The Jews started a new day when the sun went down. That is why Orthodox churches celebrate the services for the next day the night before. Biblically, the definition of day has always depended on light, not the revolution of the earth or a set period of time. Remember that when the Bible was written, nobody even knew the Earth revolved. This has raised a controversy for some Jews, because in areas where the sun does not set for months at a time, they could be resting for months on a single Sabbath day.

The point I have in raising this point is to explain how a day can last longer than 24 hours in some areas. Other planets like Venus can have a day that lasts more than 200 earth days. It depends on many factors. If the earth was revolving around God like the Book of Enoch says, then the earths day and night cycles could have been drastically different than what we know now. And the nights would not have had to last an equal amount of time like you believe, either. In polar regions, during the summer, the days get longer and longer and the nights get shorter and shorter, until the nights end and the days stretch on for months at a time. If earth was circling God, and Pangaea was a single land mass, only one side of earth would have needed light. That side could have been in a state of day for years and years, depending on how fast the earth was rotating, what tilt the earth was at, and other factors. The nights would not last thousands of years, rather, they would last perhaps only seconds, Im pretty sure. Im not an expert astronomer, but Ive been to Alaska and ive seen how that works. After the 6 days were over, God breathed life into the planet and made them living souls, and set the planet in orbit with the sun. Then the normal 24 hour periods began, and thats when He set Adam in the garden, and made Eve. So, you see, theres no need for thousand years of darkness or Adam living for thousands of years before Eve or living in darkness. If God wanted, He could have done it any way He wanted, including freezing time or making the earth stand still, so, clearly, its impossible to know just what He did when He formed earth.

But ultimately it doesnt matter, really. Its not like God is going to quiz us before He lets us into Heaven and ask us how old the Earth is.
 
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ken777

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There's no need for me to "discredit" the NT authors. If God communicated through these people, it remained within the boundaries of their cultural limitations.
The words "if" and "cultural limitations" are used to discredit the NT authors.

What about Jesus?

“Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning God made them male and female." (Matthew 19:4)

“But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. (Mark 10:6)

The objections to evolution aren't not based on reasoning, but doctrinaire adherence to fundamentalist principles. There's no shortage of evidence for evolution.
The objections to evolution are twofold:
1. The evidence is interpreted according to a godless dogma.
2. The Scriptural evidence, both OT & NT.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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It is no remnant of anything. It is being used by our body.
The coccyx serves as an attachment site for tendons, ligaments, and muscles.
Just as it should in a body created by God.

Well of course, just because its there, its an attachment site. But the tendons and ligaments and muscles don't need their attachment site to look like the remnant of a tail.

And another funny thing . . . . those species who still have tails don't have them, their tails stick out, you know, and don't provide that attachment point you claim to be so important.

And that doesn't bother them. Oh dear, how do they manage, without that attachment point?
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Oh, I think the whole first chapter is actually a poetic parable. Men at the time of the writing of the Bible were quite unable to take the literal truth about the universe at the time. It was actually a great achievement of God to get His word to say so little about creation so that man's mistaken ideas of the time would not be, later, much of an impediment.
Men at the time the Bible was written actually had better understanding and with more sophistication than do we. They lived with God Himself at times and that knowledge was passed down. King David's Psalms testify to the fact that he contemplated the universe...and how great was our God who created it.
Psalm 33:6-9:
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.

7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars;
he puts the deep into storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the people of the world revere him.
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
and thousands of years later...
Hebrews 11:1-3:
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Are you sure your faith is strong enough to keep you from straying and to help you inherit eternal life??
 
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