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Christianity... and the fact of evolution

sparow

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When has Satan not been the god of this world? If he has always been the god of this world and post-Darwinian education is under his control, then who controlled pre-Darwinian education and, if there was a change, how and why did it come about then?


That Satan is the god of this world is possibly misleading; Satan is only god of this world is as far as the world accepts him as such or in as far as the world rejects the God of Israel. Satan has no inherent authority save what the world allows him. The great deception begins in Eden evolving towards a climax in the near future. There is pre and post Darwinian evolution but the change in education (education as a weapon) came with the second war, the UN and UNESCO, communism and scientific dictatorship.
 
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Colter

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I am not able to concur; God has not used His creation to create His creation. Pre-Darwin evolution observed and described the living motion of that created; what is dug up is historical and motionless; the difference is like the living God on one hand and a stone idol on the other hand. As creation moves forward it leaves a trail of entropy behind.

The creation story is an abstraction; the expansion of it would be infinite and outside human faculties. Creation is the foundation of our reality; without it there would be a black hole, hardly a foundation for a reality. Darwinian evolution if it were rational, only addresses part of the spectrum.
Who said God used his creation to create his creation???

Like planting seeds, the primitive life forms that were planted by Gods agents evolved into man conscious of spirit.
 
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Colter

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When has Satan not been the god of this world? If he has always been the god of this world and post-Darwinian education is under his control, then who controlled pre-Darwinian education and, if there was a change, how and why did it come about then?
Lucifer's self delusion, his first great and discredited lie, was that he could ever be "God of this world". Jesus defeated the evil ones, they have been taken into custody.
 
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Colter

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That Satan is the god of this world is possibly misleading; Satan is only god of this world is as far as the world accepts him as such or in as far as the world rejects the God of Israel. Satan has no inherent authority save what the world allows him. The great deception begins in Eden evolving towards a climax in the near future. There is pre and post Darwinian evolution but the change in education (education as a weapon) came with the second war, the UN and UNESCO, communism and scientific dictatorship.
The only thing science does to religious speculation and conjecture is eliminate the superstitious component. Genesis was the creation of holy men in an enchanted age intend for spiritual instruction to the common mind of the age.

Science is forced to modify it's theories when new facts are discovered. Religion is too proud to even acknowledge those facts, it lags behind by about 500 years. Ironically the RCC is way ahead of it's Protestant step child in the area of science.
 
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Biblewriter

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The only thing science does to religious speculation and conjecture is eliminate the superstitious component. Genesis was the creation of holy men in an enchanted age intend for spiritual instruction to the common mind of the age.

Science is forced to modify it's theories when new facts are discovered. Religion is too proud to even acknowledge those facts, it lags behind by about 500 years. Ironically the RCC is way ahead of it's Protestant step child in the area of science.

My faith in "science," in general was greatly shaken when I was a senior in the university. In my biology classes in both high school and the university, we were taught that all human cells contain 24 sets of chromosomes. And when I got to my advanced genetics and cell physiology classes, we were taught the same. It was simply a well known fact. But in my senior year, a lone student in a Japanese school began to insist that the human cell he was inspecting only had 23 sets of chromosomes. The professor finally looked for himself, and found he was right. Then they checked a few more samples, and announced to the scientific community that they had discovered that some human cells only contained 23 sets of chromosomes. And only a few months later, it was announced that it had been discovered that all human cells contained 23 sets of chromosomes, instead of the 24 that had been previously taught.

The thing that shook me so completely was that this is a simple matter of counting, and not to that high of a number. Yet someone, sometime, had published as "fact" that they human cell contained 24 sets of chromosomes. And the entire scientific community had simply accepted this as fact. tens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of students had counted and recounted until they obtained the number 24, and dutifully recorded that they had counted 24 sets of chromosomes.

If the entire scientific community could be wrong about such a simple matter, which anyone with a microscope could check for himself, what else could they be wrong about?

In my later years, as an applied scientist, working in the field of ecology, I observed MANY cases in which "scientists" had fudged their numbers to get the result they desired to obtain. This has been particularly rampant in the fields of evolution and global warming. Facts that do not fit the accepted template of thought are either glossed over or simply ignored.

In the case of evolution, this has been prejudiced by the rule that it is totally unacceptable to even consider the possibility that there was an intelligent designed that planned it all. This has been mocked as "unscientific," and anyone daring to suggest it is immediately drummed out of scientific circles.

While it is indeed true that, since the concept of God is beyond the realm of science, science cannot simply assume that there is a God. But, for exactly the same reason, neither is it "scientific" to assume that there is no God. That is, since science can neither prove nor disprove the concept of God, it is fully as unscientific to assume that there is no God, as it is to assume that there is one. But the scientific community had a problem with this simple fact, whose logic is inescapable.

Now the absolute necessity of ruling out any possibility of a God, has blinded most "scientists" to many obvious and undenyalbe facts. Among these are the many fossils that are "out of place" in the evolutionary scale.

Among these are the hominoid footprints that occur all over the eastern United States, that are in strata that simply does not fit the evolutionary time table. When I was still in the university i found an issue of the "Journal of Geology" that discussed these fossils. It came to the conclusion that "If man, of man's early ape ancestor, or that ape ancestor's early mamallian ancestor, existed" that far back, "Then the whole science if geology is so wrong that all the geologists will resign their jobs and take up truck driving. Hence, science rejects the attractive explanation that man made these footprints..."

This is a prime example of "science" simply dismissing evidence that does not fit its pre-conceived concepts.

So don't preach to me about known facts. 500 years ago it was known fact that the earth was the center of the universe, even though 2000 years ago the Greeks Strabo wrote that the only way to draw a truly accurate map of the world was to draw it on a ball, and the only way to tell whether one city was south or north of another was by examining the altitudes of the stars.
 
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hedrick

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My faith in "science," in general was greatly shaken when I was a senior in the university. In my biology classes in both high school and the university, we were taught that all human cells contain 24 sets of chromosomes.
That's just silly. That number came from an early study. Here's a detailed review, The chromosome number in humans: a brief history | Learn Science at Scitable of the situation. The author says he looked at photographs of the evidence used originally, and it just wasn't clear enough to get an accurate count. It is surprising that people kept quoting that number even after it was possible to get good counts. But the good thing about science is that there's a commitment to fixing errors like that, and it was fixed.

I'm sure we'll find that current models of evolution aren't perfect either. And maybe people will hang on to old models a bit too long. But that doesn't mean that we'll return to a young earth.
 
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sparow

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Who said God used his creation to create his creation???

Like planting seeds, the primitive life forms that were planted by Gods agents evolved into man conscious of spirit.

I believe you implied that; I believe the opposite; I believe we are made in the image of a god and if we be good we will one day be resurrected as that god; we are not the product of something lesser but of something greater.
 
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sparow

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The only thing science does to religious speculation and conjecture is eliminate the superstitious component. Genesis was the creation of holy men in an enchanted age intend for spiritual instruction to the common mind of the age.

Science is forced to modify it's theories when new facts are discovered. Religion is too proud to even acknowledge those facts, it lags behind by about 500 years. Ironically the RCC is way ahead of it's Protestant step child in the area of science.


Science is like everything else; it can be good or bad or any stage in between. Religion is another word for paganism so there is also pagan science; God did not give Israel a religion, He gave them a kingdom complete with a system of government; a type of the kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Gods that is to come.
 
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Biblewriter

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That's just silly. That number came from an early study. Here's a detailed review, The chromosome number in humans: a brief history | Learn Science at Scitable of the situation. The author says he looked at photographs of the evidence used originally, and it just wasn't clear enough to get an accurate count. It is surprising that people kept quoting that number even after it was possible to get good counts. But the good thing about science is that there's a commitment to fixing errors like that, and it was fixed.

I'm sure we'll find that current models of evolution aren't perfect either. And maybe people will hang on to old models a bit too long. But that doesn't mean that we'll return to a young earth.

It was indeed silly that this "information" was just swallowed, hook, line, and sinker, by the entire scientific community. But it was, and for many years, everyone "knew" that the human cell contained 24 sets of chromosomes. And NO ONE challneged this "fact" for many years, even though anyone could check it for themselves.

And THAT was my problem with this whole fiasco.

Now many people have, for many years, pointing out MANY flaws in the "evidence" presented for evolution. But all of us continue to be ignored. Why? Because "science" is not willing to even consider the possibility that it may be mistaken on the central concept of evolution.
 
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Colter

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Science is like everything else; it can be good or bad or any stage in between. Religion is another word for paganism so there is also pagan science; God did not give Israel a religion, He gave them a kingdom complete with a system of government; a type of the kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Gods that is to come.
Judaism is a religion.

The religion of Jesus was the practice of his gospel in his life.
 
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Colter

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It was indeed silly that this "information" was just swallowed, hook, line, and sinker, by the entire scientific community. But it was, and for many years, everyone "knew" that the human cell contained 24 sets of chromosomes. And NO ONE challneged this "fact" for many years, even though anyone could check it for themselves.

And THAT was my problem with this whole fiasco.

Now many people have, for many years, pointing out MANY flaws in the "evidence" presented for evolution. But all of us continue to be ignored. Why? Because "science" is not willing to even consider the possibility that it may be mistaken on the central concept of evolution.
You have a point about swallowing assumptions but in the case of science, when new facts are presented then erronious assumptions are dismissed. Both religion and science can be too dogmatic.

We have an overwhelming amount of evidence for evolution. There is NO evidence of a young earth created in 6 days.

I believe celestial beings, the Life Carriers created and planted the seeds of evolved life.
 
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sparow

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Judaism is a religion.

The religion of Jesus was the practice of his gospel in his life.

God did not give the Jews Judaism, Judaism is the continuation of Pharisism, doctrines of men.

Religion is more to do with the manner of the practice rather than what is practiced; in practicing good news, one might practice it religiously or one might practice good news in many other ways.
 
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Colter

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God did not give the Jews Judaism, Judaism is the continuation of Pharisism, doctrines of men.

Religion is more to do with the manner of the practice rather than what is practiced; in practicing good news, one might practice it religiously or one might practice good news in many other ways.
We agree more than not here on this issue. There are positive and negative aspects of religion as a social institution. To consider the life of Jesus and how he lived it is what I call his religion.

Judaism was an evolved religion, it evolved from the agreement between Abraham and God ratified by Abrahams blind faith. Going forward Abraham would have retained aspects of his religion that he learned from his fathers religion from "beyond the rivers". After Abraham still more development took place. The Israelites were in Egypt for 200+years! Before Moses the reformer brought still more changes and development of ritual and tradition.


The truth is most of religion is "the doctrines of men" as man responds to revelations and pursues the values extracted from those revelations.
 
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sparow

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We agree more than not here on this issue. There are positive and negative aspects of religion as a social institution. To consider the life of Jesus and how he lived it is what I call his religion.

Judaism was an evolved religion, it evolved from the agreement between Abraham and God ratified by Abrahams blind faith. Going forward Abraham would have retained aspects of his religion that he learned from his fathers religion from "beyond the rivers". After Abraham still more development took place. The Israelites were in Egypt for 200+years! Before Moses the reformer brought still more changes and development of ritual and tradition.


The truth is most of religion is "the doctrines of men" as man responds to revelations and pursues the values extracted from those revelations.


The nature of the English language is that the user determines what a word means each time he uses the word.

I suspect you use the word "Judaism" differently to me; Judaism is a false religion and I would say it has evolved; If it were not false it could be the perfect Christion faith, as was the Jerusalem church under James. Evolution typically requires predictability; the fulfilment of prophesy could be called evolution, given the artistic skills and competence of the caller. However, evolution can be worked backwards. An unpredictable event or consequence whose history is known could be said retrospectively to have evolved according to it's history.

"The truth is most of religion is "the doctrines of men""; You seem to be saying that because this is common it is acceptable; God's revelations only expand or fulfil, never do they change anything previously given.
 
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sparow

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We agree more than not here on this issue. There are positive and negative aspects of religion as a social institution. To consider the life of Jesus and how he lived it is what I call his religion.

Judaism was an evolved religion, it evolved from the agreement between Abraham and God ratified by Abrahams blind faith. Going forward Abraham would have retained aspects of his religion that he learned from his fathers religion from "beyond the rivers". After Abraham still more development took place. The Israelites were in Egypt for 200+years! Before Moses the reformer brought still more changes and development of ritual and tradition.


The truth is most of religion is "the doctrines of men" as man responds to revelations and pursues the values extracted from those revelations.


How Jesus lived His life is an example for us in how to overcome sin, showing that it is possible. However that is a small part of Jesus's mission or purpose; it is essential that He be the Messiah and do all the works of the Messiah. If Jesus is the Messiah then according to John Judaism is anti-Christ; if Judaism is right then Jesus is a fool as would be those who follow him.

There is much evolution in God's plan as it develops across the measurement in time, yet the plan itself does not change; the plan is still the same as it was in the beginning, God does not change nor does His requirements in the behaviour of men.
 
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