Christianity... and the fact of evolution

[Jamie Lee]

I would like to point out, though, that less than a century ago the scientific consensus was that the earth was 400,000 years old, and they had a good case for it, until they discovered radiation. The science is never really final.
Although I do accept the current estimate.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont think thats necessarily true. In certain seasons in Alaska, for instance, the nights can last only a few seconds.
Also, there are different periods of time in Earths history, the tropical era, the ice age, the molten era... it would take more in depth research to figure out how that would all work though and I dont have that kind of expertise. But, all the same, God could have created the world in a much different way than we might have thought, and we cant really know what he did. He could have done it any way he wanted, he has control over time and space and physics.
I believe Adam was a literal person. He was the first fully evolved modern man.
I dont understand the reference to Armageddon though.

So you believe ALL the animals would be able to survive along with the plant life for thousands of years? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Also, there was no "man" before Adam. Adam was the first man. For God had formed him out of the dust of the ground.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).​

In other words, if God wanted to keep mankind on the Earth, surely he could have kept one man or person alive or have a baby start the new generation without having to form Adam out of the dust of the ground. Also, what about the salvation of the previous race of men before Adam? Why are they not mentioned or hinted at in Scripture? Did these Pre-Adamic men sin?


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[Jamie Lee]

So you believe ALL the animals would be able to survive along with the plant life for thousands of years? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Also, there was no "man" before Adam. Adam was the first man. For God had formed him out of the dust of the ground.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).

In other words, if God wanted to keep mankind on the Earth, surely he could have kept one man or person alive or have a baby start the new generation without having to form Adam out of the dust of the ground.


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Like I stated, I dont know how it happened exactly, but I dont think a day and night cycle requires an equal amount of night as day. There are extremely long days in Alaska during the summer. It depends on how the earth was tilted. Maybe it was rotating in such a way that Pangaea was in the north (the land mass was one so the other side of earth wouldnt need light) and experiencing nights that only lasted a couple hours and days that lasted billions of years. Its too complex to know really.
If I took some tin and made a can, thats a tin can, right? Now assume I smash the can andmake it into a necklace. Ask me what its made of and I will say I made it out of tin. The fact that I first turned it into a can doesnt change the fact that it made out of tin, and if God took some dust and made animals out of it which evolved into humans, they are still made of clay.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Like I stated, I dont know how it happened exactly, but I dont think a day and night cycle requires an equal amount of night as day. There are extremely long days in Alaska during the summer. It depends on how the earth was tilted. Maybe it was rotating in such a way that Pangaea was in the north (the land mass was one so the other side of earth wouldnt need light) and experiencing nights that only lasted a couple hours and days that lasted billions of years. Its too complex to know really.
If I took some tin and made a can, thats a tin can, right? Now assume I smash the can andmake it into a necklace. Ask me what its made of and I will say I made it out of tin. The fact that I first turned it into a can doesnt change the fact that it made out of tin, and if God took some dust and made animals out of it which evolved into humans, they are still made of clay.

No. It is mumbo jumbo. The text says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:5). That is the context. The evening and the morning were literal days. These are DAY cycles of morning and evening as we are aware of it because night time was not introduced until day 4 with the creation of the sun, the stars, and the moon. Light would have been everywhere up until that point. But after that point, you cannot have long cycles of night on Day 4 having an evening and morning lasting thousands of years (because it would be a cause of trouble for all life). Nowhere in Scripture is an evening and morning used as reference for a long period of time when talking about a day. Evening and morning is the CONTEXT of the word day.

The Bible says love not the world. This is talking about the world system. Macro Evolution (Not Micro-Evolution) is a theory (not fact) taught by the world. Macro Evolution is the theory used to try and disprove a belief in God and belief in the Bible. The Bible and Macro-Evolution are not in agreement with each other.


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[Jamie Lee]

No. It is mumbo jumbo. The text says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:5). That is the context. The evening and the morning were literal days. These are DAY cycles of morning and evening as we are aware of it because night time was not introduced until day 4 with the creation of the sun, the stars, and the moon. Light would have been everywhere up until that point. But after that point, you cannot have long cycles of night on Day 4 having an evening and morning lasting thousands of years (because it would be a cause of trouble for all life). Nowhere in Scripture is an evening and morning used as reference for a long period of time when talking about a day. Evening and morning is the CONTEXT of the word day.

The Bible says love not the world. This is talking about the world system. Macro Evolution (Not Micro-Evolution) is a theory (not fact) taught by the world. Macro Evolution is the theory used to try and disprove a belief in God and belief in the Bible. The Bible and Macro-Evolution are not in agreement with each other.


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Days are based on revolutions around the sun. Without the sun the word is completely relative. Why on earth do you think a day must mean 24 hours when on other planets a day can mean 58 days of earth time?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Days are based on revolutions around the sun. Without the sun the word is completely relative. Why on earth do you think a day must mean 24 hours when on other planets a day can mean 58 days of earth time?

The text only mentions one evening and one morning. Not multiple evenings and mornings.

Try watching the following videos. I know Eric Hovind is a bit hard to watch for people because he is a little sarcastic, but the info in his videos is helpful none the less for those who struggle with believing the Genesis account as it is plainly written.

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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, it is bad theology when you try to fit man's way of thinking with God's Word. Never try to cram outside ideas into the Bible. It just never works. True Science is something you can observe, test, and repeat. You cannot prove Maco-Evolution because it is simply a theory that requires lots of time (that we cannot observe) in order to make it work.

So where is your faith? In worldly scientists who propose theories or is it in God's Word as it is plainly written?


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, check out this chart within the link below. It shows how Creation and Evolution are not compatible.

http://clearviewbaptist.us/faith/CreationVsEvolutionChart.htm


(Please take note: This does not mean I endorse or believe everything this website teaches; I am merely in agreement with their chart).


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[Bible Highlighter]

The following verses (below) is a very clear indication the bible is in direct opposition to the false lie of evolution.

(1 Corinthians 15:38-41 (KJV))
"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."


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[pat34lee]

If evolution is one of the strongest explanatory theories in any academic field, I mean, the evidence is simply overwhelming, how do Christians reconcile this?

As facts don't say anything, and the evidence has to be interpreted,
what you're saying is that you have faith in the scientists who support
evolution. I have faith in the God who created us.

 

[pat34lee]

Days are based on revolutions around the sun. Without the sun the word is completely relative. Why on earth do you think a day must mean 24 hours when on other planets a day can mean 58 days of earth time?

Because the scriptures were written to us, not to someone on Mercury
or Jupiter. Don't you think the one who created time knows exactly how
much passed at any given point?

 

[Jamie Lee]

Also, it is bad theology when you try to fit man's way of thinking with God's Word. Never try to cram outside ideas into the Bible. It just never works. True Science is something you can observe, test, and repeat. You cannot prove Maco-Evolution because the it is simply a theory that requires lots of time (that we cannot observe) in order to make it work.

So where is your faith? In worldly scientists who propose theories or is it in God's Word as it is plainly written?


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In Gods word all the way. Like I stated, it is based on Genesis that I started believing in Evolution. When I first started believing in an old earth-and Ive seen those videos by Eric Hovind, btw, I used to be totally for the young earth interpretation of creation-it was when I sat down and decided to write an article against Evolution. I started with Genesis, of course, but my search ended there because I noticed something funny about Genesis.
The sun wasnt created until day 4. So what were the days based on? God defines what He means by a day when it says in Genesis 1:5:
God called the light "day," and the darkness He called "night."
So where was the light and darkness coming from, if not the sun?
On day 4, we see why God created the sun: to mark days.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.

I also noticed that God used very specific wording: "let the earth produce living creatures". Not that He created them all individually-He told the earth to produce them, and it brought them forth.

It was based on Genesis that I began to doubt my previous 6 24 hour days interpretation, which is only a human tradition of interpretation. Previous generations have been so stuck on their traditions that they considering believing in a round earth the same as heresy-but thats the kind of devotion to human traditions Jesus warned us about. Aprocyphal texts also, I found later, agreed with my new interpretation.

Im not trying to reconcile science with the Bible, In trying to understand what Genesis actually means. Im basing my opinions completely on Gods word, and this is the conclusion Ive reached after reading what it actually says several times.

 

[Jamie Lee]

Because the scriptures were written to us, not to someone on Mercury
or Jupiter. Don't you think the one who created time knows exactly how
much passed at any given point?

God defines days in verse 5 as light and darkness night. If the sun wasnt created until day 4 what did he mean when he said light and day and morning?
It WAS a literal day based on light and dark cycles, but they lasted longer than they do today because our orbit around the sun wasnt established yet.

 

[Jamie Lee]

The following verses (below) is a very clear indication the bible is in direct opposition to the false lie of evolution.

(1 Corinthians 15:38-41 (KJV))
"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."


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That doesnt say anything about evolution at all. Thats talking about how we will die and be ressurrected in a spiritual body. All bodies are different, but that doesnt mean they didnt proceed from the same origin. Now if a celestial or spiritual body is different than a terrestial body, and yet a celestial body proceeds from a terrestial body when it dies, why cant the flesh of man proceed from the flesh of animals?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

God defines days in verse 5 as light and darkness night. If the sun wasnt created until day 4 what did he mean when he said light and day and morning?
It WAS a literal day based on light and dark cycles, but they lasted longer than they do today because our orbit around the sun wasnt established yet.

We might as well be accurate about what science is telling us. According to the science, the earth came about through accumulation of numerous smaller bodies that were circling about an already established central body, our sun. So the earth never existed except at times that its orbit was established around the sun.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

That doesnt say anything about evolution at all. Thats talking about how we will die and be ressurrected in a spiritual body. All bodies are different, but that doesnt mean they didnt proceed from the same origin. Now if a celestial or spiritual body is different than a terrestial body, and yet a celestial body proceeds from a terrestial body when it dies, why cant the flesh of man proceed from the flesh of animals?

Indeed, if one species becomes different from another species through evolution, that would qualify as being of a different kind of flesh, speaking in a general sense as Paul was in making a primarily spiritual point.

 

[Jamie Lee]

Also, check out this chart within the link below. It shows how Creation and Evolution are not compatible.

http://clearviewbaptist.us/faith/CreationVsEvolutionChart.htm


(Please take note: This does not mean I endorse or believe everything this website teaches; I am merely in agreement with their chart).


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The chart is based on their interpretation of what they think Genesis means. But more detailed accounts of Creation as outlined in the Book of Enoch are in total agreement with the theory of Evolution, and thats amazing considering it is supposedly the oldest book ever written. The account in Genesis is simplistic, but Enoch goes into more detail, yet still is compatible with Genesis. Enoch states God used an "aeon" to create the universe-a super dense being a lot like the singularity in the theory of Evolution. God told it to, and it exploded and created the foundation for the universe, a lot like the big bang theory of today.

 

[Jamie Lee]

We might as well be accurate about what science is telling us. According to the science, the earth came about through accumulation of numerous smaller bodies that were circling about an already established central body, our sun. So the earth never existed except at times that its orbit was established around the sun.

Thats their explanation of it, but they probably didnt take into account the possibility that God may have actually taken several planets in his hands and rolled them into a single ball like a potter uses lumps of clay to form a larger piece of pottery. That probably wasnt considered.

 

[Jamie Lee]

Anyway, read Genesis carefully and come to your own conclusion about what it says. Maybe read Enoch as well.
Does it really matter? Not really. As we have demonstrated here, there are many ways that it can be interpretted. One does not need to choose between science and the Bible.
Belief in a 24 hour 6 day creation doesnt save you. Belief in Yeshua, the Christ, does.
Everything else is a matter of debate and speculation.
I think that a new model of Creation based on Genesis, Enoch, and science might be a worthwhile investigation.
But I better get on with my life. Ive spent too much time here.
Nice discussion, God bless!

 

[JacksBratt]

Days are based on revolutions around the sun. Without the sun the word is completely relative. Why on earth do you think a day must mean 24 hours when on other planets a day can mean 58 days of earth time?

Years are based on revolutions around the sun. Days are based on rotations of the earth. The earth rotates once per day. It revolves around the sun once per year.

Other planets rotate much slower than the earth. Many have long days and many have long years. Venus has a day that is equal to 243 earth days. It's year is only 224.7 earth days.

In Genesis, God is speaking of the earth when He speaks of "there was evening, there was morning, the first day". He was not speaking of Jupiter or Saturn or Venus.

The author of Genesis was inspired by God. He penned the words that were God breathed and meant to be written.
If the God used evolution to make all the animals, and mankind, He would have told us.

However, He told us the each animal was created "according to it's kind". He did not say that He created a single organism and all the animals and man were formed from it.

God is explicit. He gives it to you straight. "there was evening, there was morning, the first day". Then, later in the Bible it reminds us that everything was created in six days. The Bible compares it to the week where we work six days and rest for one. Do you believe God or man?

God is explicit. He created each animal in one day according to it's kind. Do you believe God, or man?

There is no place for "all organisms being common ancestors"

Satan is the great deceiver. Evolution is one of his great deceptions. So is the deception that God does not exist and the deception that Satan, himself, does not exist. Be not deceived.

Nobody has observed one species of animal evolve into another species. Bacteria change to different bacteria. Dogs to different dogs. Fowl to different fowl. But never a fish to a lizard or frog. It is not observable.

It is not repeatable. We cannot, with all our technology, make one species evolve into another species that will reproduce, then another. Never has this happened. So it is not repeatable.

Since it is not observable or repeatable it cannot be measurable. The TOE is not science. No matter how hard they try to squeeze it in there. Creation is not science either... it is super natural. Neither is science. Science cannot prove either one. Therefore, we believe one or the other by faith. Each is a religion.