Christianity... and the fact of evolution

[SeventyOne]

...or Moses, even though fully cognizant of the Egyptian, polytheistic worldview in which he was educated, wrote the early portions of Genesis to function as a basic repudiation of that very same Egyptian and/or other Early Bablyonian polytheism, to make way for the basic affirmation of faith in the ONE true God whom he had come to know since his encounter with the Lord in the Burning Bush.

So, assuming that Moses would have "included" a mish-mash of Egyptian tenets within his own worldview is a non sequitur ...

2PhiloVoid

The claim is the creation account was just a restatement of early creation thought in a way early men could understand such a thing and not based in reality, as an attempt to give evolutionary theory some credibility, based on his worldview at the time. The point is that if it was all made up to appease the masses, there would have been some bleeding of the Egyptian thought and mindset into the Torah.

So, I appreciate you agreeing with me in the first part of the post of an outside influence of his writings, but your conclusion doesn't seem to follow your own line of logic.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The claim is the creation account was just a restatement of early creation thought in a way early men could understand such a thing and not based in reality, as an attempt to give evolutionary theory some credibility, based on his worldview at the time. The point is that if it was all made up to appease the masses, there would have been some bleeding of the Egyptian thought and mindset into the Torah.

So, I appreciate you agreeing with me in the first part of the post of an outside influence of his writings, but your conclusion doesn't seem to follow your own line of logic.

Maybe, but see the 'edit' I placed on my previous post, and let me know what you think.

 

[dms1972]

.

 

[Colter]

What about these? Are they, also, just the opinion of the person who wrote it?

Matthew 28:6

"He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying.

Acts 1:3

To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How do you know the difference?

That's a good question, for me Jesus is believable and validated by the Father within.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The discussion seems like it is a set up, please stop wasting your time people. Thanks

Hi DMS,

I don't think this discussion is a set up, rather just a reflection of the discussion that has already been taking place in society at large for the last 150 plus years. It is also a reflection of the kind of discussion that can be seen among legitimate Christians who disagree about the way in which the concepts of Creation and Evolution come to bear upon our evaluations and understanding of the Bible. One such "discussion" can be seen in the book, Three Views on Creation and Evolution (Eds. J.P. Moreland & John Mark Reynolds), with another side of this discussion seen in the book, Four Views on the Historical Adam (Eds. Matthew Barrett, Ardel B. Caneday, & others).

Peace
2PhiloVoid

 

[JacksBratt]

That's a good question, for me Jesus is believable and validated by the Father within.

So, if Jesus is believable, where do you get your solid information on His words, teaching and life? What is your source of believable information.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, if Jesus is believable, where do you get your solid information on His words, teaching and life? What is your source of believable information.

The Urantia Book, written in Detroit by unknown authors.

 

[Colter]

So, if Jesus is believable, where do you get your solid information on His words, teaching and life? What is your source of believable information.

Well, there are the NT books as well as the Urantia Book.

Its funny, I grew up in a moderate Methodist church and always believed in Jesus even though I didn't believe a lot of the Old Testament stuff.

 

[JacksBratt]

Well, there are the NT books as well as the Urantia Book.

Its funny, I grew up in a moderate Methodist church and always believed in Jesus even though I didn't believe a lot of the Old Testament stuff.

Do you consider the OT to be just the words of men while the NT is God breathed scripture?

Do you put the Urantia book ahead of the OT?

 

[Colter]

Do you consider the OT to be just the words of men while the NT is God breathed scripture?

No, I believe the Bible books were written, edited, redacted and rewritten by Holy men, some more holy than others. The Bible gets better as it goes forward. The Book of Revelation is unfortunate.

 

[JacksBratt]

No, I believe the Bible books were written, edited, redacted and rewritten by Holy men, some more holy than others. The Bible gets better as it goes forward. The Book of Revelation is unfortunate.

So, it's up to us to figure out what is truth and what is myth and what is just someone's opinion?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Jesus believed the Genesis account ... and so should His followers.

I believe in an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God who created the Universe and all things that were created. Not only do I believe in Him, but I know Him rather well. He is certainly more real to me than any of you, as I haven't seen any of 'you' and have not done any background research.

I do believe the Genesis account. I fully and totally believe God designed, engineered, constructed (using current terminology in human terms) and maintains the Universe and anything else we humans don't know about.

What I don't believe is your underlying assumption that only you have the correct understanding. I do not believe the Genesis account directs us to totally ignore anything and everything that you don't like or understand. At the same time, you are - as far as I know - a Christian brother and I love (agapeo) you. We don't agree, but in the grand scheme of God's will, it's pretty minor. We probably don't agree on color schemes for houses and automobiles, either. So what?

 

[Colter]

So, it's up to us to figure out what is truth and what is myth and what is just someone's opinion?

To thine own self be true. I'm not going to be a phony and pretend something is true that I don't believe is true. And the men of the church government have been every bit as corrupt as the men of politics!!!! So I have to let my heart be the guide, the spirit o truth and just a little bit of common sense.

The post Noah flood myth has the Semitic ancestors of the Jews popping out babies of different races. Ironically, those babies grew up and had babies of the same race and migrated to places in the world where we discover archeology of the same people inhabiting the same lands for tens of thousands of years.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Only in technology. Mentally, we're headed downhill.

I agree, people are being taught to be stupid, literally. Many schools - especially at the college/university level - are busy teaching 'answers' but not thought process. Thinking is similar to muscles in that if one doesn't exercise the facility, it atrophies.

I also see the moral decline of humanity. Humans in general are all being taught morality is not universal, and really not all that important.

However, to decry scientific information along with mental and moral decay is illogical and incorrect. As Christians, we do a great disservice to ourselves and others by condemning 'science' as a bloc.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I'm sorry, thought you were trying to be funny. You know, with TOE meaning "the theory of everything".

It DOES mean "Theory of Everything". It is the intellectual descendant of what Dr. Einstein referred to as the "Unified Field Theory".

There are several approaches to the "TOE" and they differ somewhat in perspective and line of reasoning. To which are you referring?

Your question is akin to saying "Christianity is wrong because the Southern Baptists have too many racists".

I suppose I should ask, what do you think "TOE" means?

 

[JacksBratt]

To thine own self be true.

You will quote Shakespeare as a life mantra ?This phrase is actually not a Christian attitude, IMO.

So I have to let my heart be the guide, the spirit o truth and just a little bit of common sense.

You can do that, good luck. Another tactic that is non-christian, IMO.

The post Noah flood myth has the Semitic ancestors of the Jews popping out babies of different races. Ironically, those babies grew up and had babies of the same race and migrated to places in the world where we discover archeology of the same people inhabiting the same lands for tens of thousands of years.

I would need some scripture references in order to even come close to understanding what you just stated here.

 

[JacksBratt]

It DOES mean "Theory of Everything". It is the intellectual descendant of what Dr. Einstein referred to as the "Unified Field Theory".

There are several approaches to the "TOE" and they differ somewhat in perspective and line of reasoning. To which are you referring?

Your question is akin to saying "Christianity is wrong because the Southern Baptists have too many racists".

I suppose I should ask, what do you think "TOE" means?

Anytime I use the abbreviation "TOE" I am referring to the Theory of Evolution. Sorry for the confusion.

I thought Steven Hawking was looking to expand Einstein's Theory of Relativity into the Theory of Everything.

 

[Colter]

You will quote Shakespeare as a life mantra ?This phrase is actually not a Christian attitude, IMO.



You can do that, good luck. Another tactic that is non-christian, IMO.



I would need some scripture references in order to even come close to understanding what you just stated here.

You mean you didn't know? Everyone on earth was killed except an ancestor of the Hebrews who wrote the flood story. So Noah's kids went and founded the black race (Ham) the white race (Jepheth) and the Chinese (Shem). The authors didn't know anything about the Native Americans, Eskimos or Australian Aborigines.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Anytime I use the abbreviation "TOE" I am referring to the Theory of Evolution. Sorry for the confusion.

Probably other less-than-well-read YEC supports do as well. (That is not meant as an insult, merely an observation, by the way.) Much like those who rant about 'evolution' proclaiming the 13.74 billion year age of the Universe and such.

Perhaps it seems inconsequential, but it is as grating as those non-believers who claim 'all religions are the same'; and comes from the same sort of ignorance (they're not stupid, they just don't know and don't care to know).

I thought Steven Hawking was looking to expand Einstein's Theory of Relativity into the Theory of Everything.

That is correct. However, everyone working on 'String Theory' and Cosmology in general are also trying to derive a single set of 'truisms' (my word, not theirs), equations and principles that can be demonstrated to explain 'everything'. Dr. Hawking isn't the only one.

In a nutshell, right now General Relativity 'explains' everything that happens - in terms of movement and interaction of physical bodies - in the macro Universe. Quantum Mechanics 'explains' everything that happens - in terms of movement and interaction of physical bodies - in the micro Universe. The problem is, the two theories are incompatible when they intersect. So the work is on to figure out how to merge the two and have one set of rules for everything.

And I must point out, the 'figuring' is to find the mathematical realities and precepts about 'how' it works, not to determine 'who' is behind it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I believe in an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God who created the Universe and all things that were created. Not only do I believe in Him, but I know Him rather well. He is certainly more real to me than any of you, as I haven't seen any of 'you' and have not done any background research.

I do believe the Genesis account. I fully and totally believe God designed, engineered, constructed (using current terminology in human terms) and maintains the Universe and anything else we humans don't know about.

What I don't believe is your underlying assumption that only you have the correct understanding. I do not believe the Genesis account directs us to totally ignore anything and everything that you don't like or understand. At the same time, you are - as far as I know - a Christian brother and I love (agapeo) you. We don't agree, but in the grand scheme of God's will, it's pretty minor. We probably don't agree on color schemes for houses and automobiles, either. So what?

Archie, we all know that red is Satan's color of choice, so if you live in a little red house, or drive a red car or truck, then we will know (... we'll "all" know because of the unmistakable evidence) what this really says about you!

2Philovoid