Christianity and Abortion Don't Mix

[Cassidy]

I understand what you are saying, but tend to try to change things from a different angle. Rather than just scream and shout 'murderer murderer' or...'don't kill don't kill' or...forcing women to backyard abortionists and killing themselves and their babies, I prefer to change things via the gospel. Christ is the ONLY answer, not man's law! You wish to lean on man's law to save babies, I wish to lean on Christ.

I can gaurantee which one will succeed

And you haven't answered my question re: my philosophy on the unborn that you find so troubling. Please tell me what is it about my philosophy that troubles you so much?

 

[steadfastchristian]

I understand what you are saying, but tend to try to change things from a different angle. Rather than just scream and shout 'murderer murderer' or...'don't kill don't kill' or...forcing women to backyard abortionists and killing themselves and their babies, I prefer to change things via the gospel. Christ is the ONLY answer, not man's law! You wish to lean on man's law to save babies, I wish to lean on Christ.

I can gaurantee which one will succeed

And you haven't answered my question re: my philosophy on the unborn that you find so troubling. Please tell me what is it about my philosophy that troubles you so much?

As Christians, we have a moral obligation to protect life using all possible (peaceful) avenues. I agree that prayer and evangelism are the highest priority in stopping abortion - without Christ there is no hope. However, there are many different sides to this story:

Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done? (Proverbs 24:11-12 NIV)

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy." (Proverbs 31:8-9 NIV)

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (James 2:14-17 NIV)

As you understand, we cannot turn a blind eye to this great injustice taking place. We are a Christian nation yet we have legalized abortion through our action or inaction. Christians cannot continue to vote for candidates that support ideologies that are in direct opposition to our Lord’s commandments. We cannot continue to ignore the cries of the innocent blood of children being shed. We have to look at abortion for what it really is. The best way to do this is through education. The director of one LifeGuard chapter stated that “Over 90% of women who see the ultrasound of their unborn baby decide against it.” This is an incredible life saving statistic. We need to make sure that every pro-life center has access to a portable ultrasound machine.

As you are stressing, we need to comfort and show compassion to those who are contemplating an abortion or those who have already had one.
In other words, this problem has to be hit from all peaceful angles.

Your philosophy of wanting to keep abortion legal despite the consequences to the unborn troubles me. You keep saying that more abortion will occur if it becomes illegal. IMO, your statement is irrational. Yes, there will still be abortions taking place and yes, some desperate women will take their own lives along with their child’s, but this will be the minority of women.

Just like robbing a bank is illegal but it still continues despite the consequences. If robbing banks became legal, a lot more would occur as this is only common sense. I understand that bank robbery and abortion are two completely different subjects; however, the law of the land is the common denominator here.

You say that I only want worldly laws to stop abortion. To clarify, I want all laws including those from God and by man (if they are consistent with Scripture) to stop the practice of abortion.

 

[PROUD2LOVEJESUS]

"Thou shalt not Murder" does not apply to children in utero and never did. The verse in Psalms is David speaking to God not the other way around and Jeremiah applies SOLELY to Jeremiah. Try again.

And where is your reference or proof for such a blanket statement? You claim to know what God meant by "Thou Shall Not Murder" I don't see Him making any exemptions. Also, if he knew us in our mother's womb, we were ALIVE. So, thou shall not murder would of course be in effect.

 

[PROUD2LOVEJESUS]

As Christians, we have a moral obligation to protect life using all possible (peaceful) avenues. I agree that prayer and evangelism are the highest priority in stopping abortion - without Christ there is no hope. However, there are many different sides to this story:
Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done? (Proverbs 24:11-12 NIV)
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy." (Proverbs 31:8-9 NIV)

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (James 2:14-17 NIV)

As you understand, we cannot turn a blind eye to this great injustice taking place. We are a Christian nation yet we have legalized abortion through our action or inaction. Christians cannot continue to vote for candidates that support ideologies that are in direct opposition to our Lord’s commandments. We cannot continue to ignore the cries of the innocent blood of children being shed. We have to look at abortion for what it really is. The best way to do this is through education. The director of one LifeGuard chapter stated that “Over 90% of women who see the ultrasound of their unborn baby decide against it.” This is an incredible life saving statistic. We need to make sure that every pro-life center has access to a portable ultrasound machine.

As you are stressing, we need to comfort and show compassion to those who are contemplating an abortion or those who have already had one.
In other words, this problem has to be hit from all peaceful angles.

Your philosophy of wanting to keep abortion legal despite the consequences to the unborn troubles me. You keep saying that more abortion will occur if it becomes illegal. IMO, your statement is irrational. Yes, there will still be abortions taking place and yes, some desperate women will take their own lives along with their child’s, but this will be the minority of women.
Just like robbing a bank is illegal but it still continues despite the consequences. If robbing banks became legal, a lot more would occur as this is only common sense. I understand that bank robbery and abortion are two completely different subjects; however, the law of the land is the common denominator here.

You say that I only want worldly laws to stop abortion. To clarify, I want all laws including those from God and by man (if they are consistent with Scripture) to stop the practice of abortion.

I agree with you.

 

[kiwimac]

And where is your reference or proof for such a blanket statement? You claim to know what God meant by "Thou Shall Not Murder" I don't see Him making any exemptions. Also, if he knew us in our mother's womb, we were ALIVE. So, thou shall not murder would of course be in effect.

Because the ONE time abortion is mentioned in scripture it is mentioned as a civil offence worthy of the payment of a fine.

 

[Cassidy]

As Christians, we have a moral obligation to protect life using all possible (peaceful) avenues. I agree that prayer and evangelism are the highest priority in stopping abortion - without Christ there is no hope. However, there are many different sides to this story:

Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done? (Proverbs 24:11-12 NIV)

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy." (Proverbs 31:8-9 NIV)

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (James 2:14-17 NIV)

As you understand, we cannot turn a blind eye to this great injustice taking place. We are a Christian nation yet we have legalized abortion through our action or inaction. Christians cannot continue to vote for candidates that support ideologies that are in direct opposition to our Lord’s commandments. We cannot continue to ignore the cries of the innocent blood of children being shed.

Can I just tell you that I agree with you when you say that we need to speak up for the unborn, that is not in question here. What IS in question is how we do that. Now, taking away of wome's choices, I believe ISN'T the way to do this because it causes MORE DEATH! Not only does it cause more death but it also puts us on a very slippery slope re: women's right to autonomy over their own bodies in other areas as well...rape, birth, pregnancy etc etc Do you understand this?

I don't wish to take even MORE choices away from women, I want to give them the ultimate choice....CHRIST. He is the be all and end all. And I believe by doing this you not only protect and speak up for the unborn but you also speak up for ALL those who are weak.

We have to look at abortion for what it really is. The best way to do this is through education. The director of one LifeGuard chapter stated that “Over 90% of women who see the ultrasound of their unborn baby decide against it.” This is an incredible life saving statistic. We need to make sure that every pro-life center has access to a portable ultrasound machine.

This isn't the BEST way. Christ is the best way, but I agree that it is important to educate.

As you are stressing, we need to comfort and show compassion to those who are contemplating an abortion or those who have already had one.

In other words, this problem has to be hit from all peaceful angles.

Most certainly, but may I add that comfort and compassion should be shown to all not just those contemplating or having abortion. It needs to be wide spread...we need to get rid of the REASON of all murder.

Your philosophy of wanting to keep abortion legal despite the consequences to the unborn troubles me.

That's because you don't understand it.

You keep saying that more abortion will occur if it becomes illegal. IMO, your statement is irrational. Yes, there will still be abortions taking place and yes, some desperate women will take their own lives along with their child’s, but this will be the minority of women.

You are wrong. What will also happen is that women will be forced to have unwanted children and abuse and neglect and murder will go up. It will cause MORE tragedy to take away a woman's choices. Can you not see that?

The ONLY answer is Christ...that's it! Anything else and it will have holes in it.

Just like robbing a bank is illegal but it still continues despite the consequences. If robbing banks became legal, a lot more would occur as this is only common sense. I understand that bank robbery and abortion are two completely different subjects; however, the law of the land is the common denominator here.

The difference is that robbing a bank doesn't mess with anyone's body. That rape and abuse and violence against women doesn't cause one to rob a bank. That you're forcing women to rob a bank in an unsafe manner by making it a law to not rob a bank. Apples and Oranges.

You say that I only want worldly laws to stop abortion. To clarify, I want all laws including those from God and by man (if they are consistent with Scripture) to stop the practice of abortion.

The laws of man will fail...only God will succeed. Your best bet is to deal with the illness and not the symptom. What you want to do is put a bandaid solution on a spiritual problem and I'm afraid that it's not going to cut it.

What we SHOULD be doing is trying to make a difference in people's lives. Giving them hope. Ridding the world of rape and violence. Saving souls. This in turn will save babies. If you want to save babies, then put your words into action and get out there and save women!!!!! Go out there and lobby against this patriachal society we live in and give women hope....thus taking away the reasons for abortion and making it moot.

 

[Cassidy]

Because the ONE time abortion is mentioned in scripture it is mentioned as a civil offence worthy of the payment of a fine.

That may be the case but abortion IS murder and murder is wrong so therefore abortion is wrong.

 

[kiwimac]

Murder is a legal term referring to the unlawful taking of a life. Abortion is NOT illegal ergo it is not murder.

 

[WannaWitness]

I ran across this link recently, which I find to be excellent food for thought when it comes to this matter. It seems to me to be from a fairly moderate point of view; while I don't think the writer is excusing abortion (which is a very important issue) in any way, he is also pointing out other factors to consider (and I'll add that the first initial response to the article was well-written and thought-provoking, as well).

I'm not wishing to debate, nor to change anyone's honest convictions; I'm simply presenting a different perspective. If anything, it makes for some interesting reading.

The Solomonic Cynic: Can a pro-life Christian vote Democratic in good conscience?

God bless.

 

[Lively Stone]

Muder is a legal term referring to the unlawful taking of a life. Abortion is NOT illegal ergo it is not murder.

It is murder to God and it is to His own children. They know His voice and that is precisely what He calls it.

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the Lord hates—
no, seven things he detests:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that kill the innocent,
18 a heart that plots evil,
feet that race to do wrong,
19 a false witness who pours out lies,
a person who sows discord in a family.

 

[kiwimac]

You are entitled to your opinion but the scripture does not support your contention.

 

[steadfastchristian]

I ran across this link recently, which I find to be excellent food for thought when it comes to this matter. It seems to me to be from a fairly moderate point of view; while I don't think the writer is excusing abortion (which is a very important issue) in any way, he is also pointing out other factors to consider (and I'll add that the first initial response to the article was well-written and thought-provoking, as well).

I'm not wishing to debate, nor to change anyone's honest convictions; I'm simply presenting a different perspective. If anything, it makes for some interesting reading.

God bless.

I agree that we shouldn’t be partisan in our political choices. It doesn’t matter if it’s democrat, republican, or independent, As Christians, we belong to God’s party and our vote should reflect that which is most consistent with His commandments. Yes it is true that there are no perfect candidates so we must take the lesser of two evils when deciding. We have a moral obligation to do our homework and base our decision on what’s best for furthering God’s Kingdom, not our own desires.
One thing we cannot do is water down our faith to conform to the world and its views. Our views come from God and should be steadfastly followed (peacefully) no matter the consequences.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy,Your compassion for women will go a long way towards helping to prevent abortions. God bless you for this. On the other hand, IMO, your insistence on defending legal abortion will keep you at odds with Holy Scripture.

 

[Lively Stone]

You are entitled to your opinion but the scripture does not support your contention.

Scripture certainly defies yours.

 

[PeterAV]

Until there is a candidate who fits my beliefs, I will not vote for the lesser of all evils.

Good for you dinonum. Take that stand for truth regardless of evil oppositions.
After all, now, it is not about right versus left any more. That is only a smoke screen.
It is about those big bankers and big pharma and big business and big religion all taking over the country. Introducing the new world order and causing havoc and emergency so they can be the saviors.Ha!
Few politicians will fight against those evils. Let alone take a stand for righteousness.

 

[Cassidy]

Murder is a legal term referring to the unlawful taking of a life. Abortion is NOT illegal ergo it is not murder.

This is a very weak argument. 'Killing' then....splitting hairs just shows me that you are desperate to prove you are right when you are, in fact, wrong.

Cassidy,Your compassion for women will go a long way towards helping to prevent abortions. God bless you for this. On the other hand, IMO, your insistence on defending legal abortion will keep you at odds with Holy Scripture.

This is an oxymoron if I've ever seen one. I wish to prevent abortions by helping women yet I'm defending abortion....sorry....doesn't compute. What I DO defend is women's right to choose, if you take that away then you will send a very dangerous message, that women do not have a right to full autonomy over their bodies and this will cause death and destruction which, in turn, is at odds with scripture.

 

[Cassidy]

Further, a legal fix from the top-down does not even begin to get at the real problem with respect to abortion: the twisted human heart. Law outside of loving relationship embitters and hardens hearts, it does not give transformed life to the woman.

Pro-life Christians can (and do) disagree in good conscience on the best STRATEGY for addressing the atrocity of abortion, and a disagreement in tactics is not necessarily a disagreement in values.

Pro-life Christians can (and do) disagree in good conscience on the best STRATEGY for addressing the atrocity of abortion, and a disagreement in tactics is not necessarily a disagreement in values.

I totally agree. It concerns me when Christians see the government as some sort of "be all end all" when it comes to fixing problems in this country--- moral or otherwise. Like you said, the Church is the most powerful agent for change in the world. It's a travesty that Christians put more faith in Caesar to fix their problems than God.

These are the points I've been trying to make.

And just for the record and so I can make my views clear, I am against abortion, I hate it and believe it's murder. However making it illegal isn't going to change anything, but what it will do is cause more pain, death and destruction in this society and won't stand for that either.

 

[WannaWitness]

I agree that we shouldn’t be partisan in our political choices. It doesn’t matter if it’s democrat, republican, or independent, As Christians, we belong to God’s party and our vote should reflect that which is most consistent with His commandments. Yes it is true that there are no perfect candidates so we must take the lesser of two evils when deciding. We have a moral obligation to do our homework and base our decision on what’s best for furthering God’s Kingdom, not our own desires.

I see what you're saying. However, I just don't believe that there really is a "lesser of two evils" when it comes to politics, for the one is just as guilty as the other for lacking morals, therefore, I don't believe any earthly political party can be called a "Christian party". But in addition to that, I believe both main parties have ideas I agree with when it comes to things that line up with the Bible. I disagree with abortion and gay "marriages" or "unions", or whatever you like to call them, as many Republicans do. But I see nothing wrong with creating programs (within reason, of course) to help some of the more unfortunate people among us to get on their feet, and many of them did not get that way through any fault of their own, simply hitting hard times (losing their jobs, illnesses, etc.) with little chance of getting on their feet, and that is something that Democrats are known for. As a whole, there is such a mixed bag of issues of importance to many Christians, and as a result, I just can't connect any one party with Christianity. Therefore, I am nonpartisan, and realize that we can try all we want to tell others of our values we stand for (hey, I have done it, and received a lot of flak, but will continue to do so regardless), but must also know that there will be those who will not listen, and we can't bop people over the head and make them believe as we do (after all, God doesn't), but we know that everyone will give account of their actions in the end.

Another idea someone put across one time is, rather than bringing politics into Christianity, we should bring Christianity into politics, offering our ideas based on the Bible to try to make a difference for the better... then praying for our leaders (whether we voted for them or not) to make wise, fair, and moral decisions... and let our all-powerful God take care of the rest.

One thing we cannot do is water down our faith to conform to the world and its views. Our views come from God and should be steadfastly followed (peacefully) no matter the consequences.

I fully agree.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, Allowing abortion to be legal for the mom eliminates the legal rights of the unborn. In United States, this is contrary to our constitution where “All men are created equal…”
More importantly, Abortion is contrary to Scripture:

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 18:10 NIV)

Legalized abortion subjects not just the woman to judgment but all in society who make unjust laws:

Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,
to deprive the poor of their rights
and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
making widows their prey
and robbing the fatherless. (Isaiah 10 NIV)
.
The “oppressed” in our society includes the unborn. How then can Christians justify legalized abortion?

 

[Lively Stone]

Cassidy, Allowing abortion to be legal for the mom eliminates the legal rights of the unborn. In United States, this is contrary to our constitution where “All men are created equal…”
More importantly, Abortion is contrary to Scripture:

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 18:10 NIV)

Legalized abortion subjects not just the woman to judgment but all in society who make unjust laws:

Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,
to deprive the poor of their rights
and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
making widows their prey
and robbing the fatherless. (Isaiah 10 NIV)
.
The “oppressed” in our society includes the unborn. How then can Christians justify legalized abortion?

Very well put.