Christianity and Abortion Don't Mix

[kiwimac]

Kiwimac, what does the Bible say about the ones who would intentionally lead Gods people astray?

Which passages in the Bible refer to Abortion? I'll help you here, there is ONLY ONE and that one treats it as an civil problem to be settled by payment of a fine.

 

[The Penitent Man]

The spirit of the law covers the abortion issue even if the letter of the law does not.

 

[kiwimac]

Ah well that was an easy out wasn't it?

 

[Cassidy]

The "tragedy" is the millions of aborted babies.

Yes but should we create even MORE tragedy by limiting women's choices? My grandmother died because she wanted to save her children from an abusive father, a father who got drunk, beat her and raped her and she already had 6 children and was pregnant with twins. Being as how there was no support or help for her and her children, she did what she feel she had to do and gave herself an abortion which killed, not only her twins but also herself...leaving 6 children motherless and a father who threw them in an orphanage! THIS is the tragedy!!!!

Adoption is a more civilized solution to unwanted pregnancies.

I agree, but I can't put my beliefs onto someone else and to force women to go through 9 months of pregnancy and all the trauma that goes with it, and the trauma of an adoption...that's not my call.

Instead of funding $millions to Planned Parenthood the money would be better spent to help provide poor, neglected women with an education and a safe place to live.

The money should be better spent to rid this society of the notion that women are no more than objects....and the rest.

Question - do you believe an abortion takes the life of the child?

Yes

Furthermore, do you think a wealthy woman who is using abortion as a form of birth control is justified to have the abortion?

That's not my call to make. I don't have the right to decide what is or isn't justified for someone else.

 

[FG21]

<b>Originally Posted by FG21

Kiwimac, what does the Bible say about the ones who would intentionally lead Gods people astray
​

</b>

Which passages in the Bible refer to Abortion? I'll help you here, there is ONLY ONE and that one treats it as an civil problem to be settled by payment of a fine.

Are you unable to answer the question I asked or are you unwilling to admit what the Bible says about the ones who intentionally lead Gods people astray?

It seems you do not want to answer the question as it speaks about you.

 

[kiwimac]

Are you attempting to suggest someone here is doing this?

 

[FG21]

Kiwimac, what does the Bible say about the ones who would intentionally lead Gods people astray?

 

[steadfastchristian]

Yes but should we create even MORE tragedy by limiting women's choices? My grandmother died because she wanted to save her children from an abusive father, a father who got drunk, beat her and raped her and she already had 6 children and was pregnant with twins. Being as how there was no support or help for her and her children, she did what she feel she had to do and gave herself an abortion which killed, not only her twins but also herself...leaving 6 children motherless and a father who threw them in an orphanage! THIS is the tragedy!!!!



I agree, but I can't put my beliefs onto someone else and to force women to go through 9 months of pregnancy and all the trauma that goes with it, and the trauma of an adoption...that's not my call.



The money should be better spent to rid this society of the notion that women are no more than objects....and the rest.



Yes



That's not my call to make. I don't have the right to decide what is or isn't justified for someone else.

You say "The money should be better spent to rid this society of the notion that women are no more than objects..." You also agreed that abortion takes the life of the child.

Then how can you justify treating the child as an object by justifying abortion if things aren't working out for the mother. Two wrongs don't make a right. The child is innocent and has done no wrong to justify being killed.

I feel your pain and am deeply sorry this happened to your family member.

My Great Grandmother had 16 children with several of them dying at birth. The difference being, these were natural deaths. Although their life on Earth was brief, their souls live on forever.

Our life on Earth is also brief, "a passing shadow" and therefore we cannot place too much emphasis on the now, rather, we have to focus on the eternal. God will find a way for us to endure our sufferings no matter how hard it becomes, this is His promise to us. This is something that is definitely harder to practice than to preach but regardless, it is the truth. It is also clear through God's commandments that He does not want us to unnecessarily kill no matter how hard our struggles become. Therefore, as Christians, abortion cannot be justified.

 

[FG21]

Our life on Earth is also brief, "a passing shadow" and therefore we cannot place too much emphasis on the now, rather, we have to focus on the eternal. God will find a way for us to endure our sufferings no matter how hard it becomes, this is His promise to us. This is something that is definitely harder to practice than to preach but regardless, it is the truth. It is also clear through God's commandments that He does not want us to unnecessarily kill no matter how hard our struggles become. Therefore, as Christians, abortion cannot be justified.

Beautiful post, Steadfast

 

[Cassidy]

You say "The money should be better spent to rid this society of the notion that women are no more than objects..." You also agreed that abortion takes the life of the child.

Then how can you justify treating the child as an object by justifying abortion if things aren't working out for the mother. Two wrongs don't make a right. The child is innocent and has done no wrong to justify being killed.

I'm not justifying abortion. What I'm trying to do and to redirect our efforts off of what the mother is doing wrong and onto trying to save the mother.

Don't you get it? Had my grandmother been treated with respect by her husband or....been given the help she needed, or if abortion was legal, two things would be apparant today...#1 - I would have met my grandmother, or #2 - I would know my grandmother and two extra uncles or aunts. But I don't. Why? Because this society let my grandmother and her babies down!!!

What would have happened if someone had come to her aid and brought her to christ? 3 lives would have been saved!!!!

Judging and taking away choices aren't going to save babies....it WILL cause MORE tragedy!!!

I feel your pain and am deeply sorry this happened to your family member.

My Great Grandmother had 16 children with several of them dying at birth. The difference being, these were natural deaths. Although their life on Earth was brief, their souls live on forever.

No the difference being was that perhaps your grandmother had love and support.

Our life on Earth is also brief, "a passing shadow" and therefore we cannot place too much emphasis on the now, rather, we have to focus on the eternal. God will find a way for us to endure our sufferings no matter how hard it becomes, this is His promise to us. This is something that is definitely harder to practice than to preach but regardless, it is the truth.

Sure...but you forget the great commision. We are not called to judge but rather to preach the gospel. What is the gospel? Christ! We are to bring souls to Christ not judge them or take away their choices. Judging and dictating to them isn't going to save them...Christ is!

Our focus should always be about bringing souls to his kingdom...this is the ONLY way that we can save lives. Disallowing abortion is NOT going to save lives...but rather create more death and destruction and I for one will not have that on my head.

It is also clear through God's commandments that He does not want us to unnecessarily kill no matter how hard our struggles become. Therefore, as Christians, abortion cannot be justified.

But we're not talking about Christians (I hope) these women aren't Christians...THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!!

Our job isn't to judge what is justified and what is not...our job is bring more souls to Christ and legalising abortion isn't going to do that.

 

[kiwimac]

Kiwimac, what does the Bible say about the ones who would intentionally lead Gods people astray?

It condemns them, now what are you suggesting?

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, our job is to speak God's truth regardless if it's popular or not. The unborn have no voice of their own and it would be an injustice and great sin to not speak on their behalf. Babies are being killed by the millions &#8211; how can we possibly sit back and say nothing!
I agree with you that we do not want to create more violence by not keeping our protest against abortion civilized. The peaceful, loving, compassionate approach is always the best way to help others.
You have a tremendous amount of compassion for women who are struggling in life and God will bless you for this. However, I do not see you share this same compassion for the unborn.
You stated, &#8220;What I'm trying to do and to redirect our efforts off of what the mother is doing wrong and onto trying to save the mother.&#8221;
What about saving the life of the child? Do you really think that a mother ending the life of her own flesh and blood (her unborn child) will make her life any better? It&#8217;s not all about what&#8217;s best for us, Jesus was clear about only thinking about ourselves, (Luke 17:33 NIV) &#8220;&#8230; Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.&#8221;

The sin of abortion does not rest only with the person having the abortion. We have all made abortion possible through our vote, silence, and lack of support to help those who are struggling with this issue. This is a societal sin and it appears we are suffering the consequences today. Which is worse, a scared teenager struggling with the decision to have an abortion or a society who has legalized this barbaric act that actually encourages women to have the abortions?
(Luke 17:1-3 NIV) Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him&#8230;&#8221;

We are to Love the sinner and show forgiveness but hate the sin. You are correct that we need to take care of women in need. We can&#8217;t just tell them to keep their child if we don&#8217;t follow up and support them. This is exactly what LifeGaurd is doing right now. Recently, they offered to pay for a young woman&#8217;s rent and food if she would decide against abortion. The young woman accepted their offer and she had the baby. This is the answer that I think you would agree with. In this way both the mom and baby are saved.

 

[Lively Stone]

Cassidy, Our job is to speak God's truth regardless if it's popular or not. The unborn have no voice of their own and it would be an injustice and great sin to not speak on their behalf. Babies are being killed by the millions – how can we possibly sit back and say nothing!
I agree with you that we do not want to create more violence by not keeping our protest against abortion civilized. The peaceful, loving, compassionate approach is always the best way to help others.
You have a tremendous amount of compassion for women who are struggling in life and God will bless you for this. However, I do not see you share this same compassion for the unborn.
You stated, “What I'm trying to do and to redirect our efforts off of what the mother is doing wrong and onto trying to save the mother.”
What about saving the life of the child? Do you really think that a mother ending the life of her own flesh and blood (her unborn child) will make her life any better? It’s not all about what’s best for us, Jesus was clear about only thinking about ourselves, (Luke 17:33 NIV) “… Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.”

The sin of abortion does not rest only with the person having the abortion. We have all made abortion possible through our vote, silence, and lack of support to help those who are struggling with this issue. This is a societal sin and it appears we are suffering the consequences today. Which is worse, a scared teenager struggling with the decision to have an abortion or a society who has legalized this barbaric act that actually encourages women to have the abortions?
(Luke 17:1-3 NIV) Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him…”

We are to Love the sinner and show forgiveness but hate the sin. You are correct that we need to take care of women in need. We can’t just tell them to keep their child if we don’t follow up and support them. This is exactly what LifeGaurd is doing right know. Recently, they offered to pay for a young woman’s rent and food if she would decide against abortion. The young woman accepted their offer and she had the baby. This is the answer that I think you would agree with. In this way both the mom and baby are saved.

Excellent!

 

[Cassidy]

Cassidy, our job is to speak God's truth regardless if it's popular or not. The unborn have no voice of their own and it would be an injustice and great sin to not speak on their behalf. Babies are being killed by the millions &#8211; how can we possibly sit back and say nothing!

How is preaching the gospel saying nothing? Yes babies are being killed but making abortion illegal won't stop this, in fact it will cause more death....do you want to cause MORE death? I don't.

I agree with you that we do not want to create more violence by not keeping our protest against abortion civilized. The peaceful, loving, compassionate approach is always the best way to help others.

The best way to protest against abortion is to take away the reasons for abortion.....thus making abortion unnecessay in this society.

You have a tremendous amount of compassion for women who are struggling in life and God will bless you for this. However, I do not see you share this same compassion for the unborn.

Yes I do as matter of fact. Have you not read my posts? It's the women who choose to abort is it not? Then doesn't it make sense that we should be focussing our compassion on women? Do you not see that by saving the women we ARE saving the unborn?

Imagine if someone had preached the gospel to my grandmother. Imagine it, steadfastchristian. Close your eyes and picture a women being beaten by a drunkard and raped, and someone coming to her and taking her in their arms and telling her all about Christ and how he can save her. Now imagine my grandmother coming to Christ. Now imagine my grandmother knowing, through the Holy Spirit, that abortion is wrong. What do you think my grandmother would have done differently had she been a christian and/or been taken out of the hopeless situation she was in?

You stated, &#8220;

What I'm trying to do and to redirect our efforts off of what the mother is doing wrong and onto trying to save the mother.&#8221;
What about saving the life of the child? Do you really think that a mother ending the life of her own flesh and blood (her unborn child) will make her life any better? It&#8217;s not all about what&#8217;s best for us, Jesus was clear about only thinking about ourselves, (Luke 17:33 NIV) &#8220;&#8230; Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.&#8221;

You're not reading my post. You ask "What about saving the life of the child?" And I say Saving the life of the mother IS saving the life of the child. Can you not see that?

Making abortion illegal will NOT save babies. Let me say it again...MAKING ABORTION ILLEGAL WILL NOT SAVE BABIES.


However....


Preaching the gospel and saving the mother WILL!!!!!!!!


Do you want to save babies or not? The choice is yours...not theirs. They are the unsaved...you are not! You have what they need!

The sin of abortion does not rest only with the person having the abortion.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. It rests on us NOT preaching the gospel and saving the women having the abortions.

We have all made abortion possible through our vote,

Abortion was always possible long before the vote. The vote has merely made it that the women who have the abortions aren't dying too.

silence, and lack of support to help those who are struggling with this issue.

The best way to support those struggling is to preach the gospel and bring them to Christ. In fact, it's the ONLY way.

This is a societal sin and it appears we are suffering the consequences today.

The sin is that we are focusing on the symptom and not the illness that causes the symptom.

Which is worse, a scared teenager struggling with the decision to have an abortion or a society who has legalized this barbaric act that actually encourages women to have the abortions?

Neither....it's us not preaching the gospel to the scared teenager and saving them thus making abortion void.

(Luke 17:1-3 NIV) Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.

2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him&#8230;&#8221;

That verse is talking about your fellow christians (If your BROTHER sins). Mothers who have abortions aren't christian. Our job is to change this.

We are to Love the sinner and show forgiveness but hate the sin.

I have no problem with that.

You are correct that we need to take care of women in need. We can&#8217;t just tell them to keep their child if we don&#8217;t follow up and support them.

We need to save them not just support them.

This is exactly what LifeGaurd is doing right now. Recently, they offered to pay for a young woman&#8217;s rent and food if she would decide against abortion. The young woman accepted their offer and she had the baby. This is the answer that I think you would agree with. In this way both the mom and baby are saved.

But did anyone bother to preach the gospel to the young woman? What happens next time, are they going to pay the rent again? Is she now saved?

The ONLY way to save both mother and child is to save them through the gospel...anything else is merely a bandaid.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, showing acts of love is the highest form of sharing Christ&#8217;s Word. Without love you have no message. Of course the Gospel was shared to the young woman but not by thumping the Bible over her head. This was a scared woman who needed help at that moment, and help she received. Only after the relationship of trust is established, would she be open to the Word. You pull the lamb out of the pit first, just as you care for the wounded man lying on the road as scripture clearly teaches us. Your compassion for women is a good example of this yet your philosophy toward the unborn is troubling for me.

Moreover, you don&#8217;t legalize drugs, murder, or any other crime just because everyone isn&#8217;t saved yet or because people continue to do it anyways. Law and order is mandatory for a civilized society. Yet you say that making abortion illegal won&#8217;t save babies. Of course it will! Yes, abortions would still occur but on a limited level and society would stop sending the false message that abortion on demand is acceptable, and more importantly, we would be following God&#8217;s will.

Again, shedding innocent blood is never acceptable. Until we change our barbaric ways, our country and world will endure due judgment.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all&#8230; .This includes the unborn!

 

[Cassidy]

Cassidy, showing acts of love is the highest form of sharing Christ’s Word. Without love you have no message. Of course the Gospel was shared to the young woman but not by thumping the Bible over her head. This was a scared woman who needed help at that moment, and help she received. Only after the relationship of trust is established, would she be open to the Word. You pull the lamb out of the pit first, just as you care for the wounded man lying on the road as scripture clearly teaches us.

I'm glad that you recognise that being the gospel is still preaching the gospel. I had a woman that I only met once, come to me because somehow, through zero conversation, she knew my stance against abortion and wanted my views. I talked to her about what I believed and why, I told her what I stood for and she decided not to have the abortion.

And guess what? Abortion is still legal and yet I was able to stop this woman from having one.

Your compassion for women is a good example of this yet your philosophy toward the unborn is troubling for me.

Do you even know my philosophy toward the unborn? What is it? And why does it trouble you?

Moreover, you don’t legalize drugs, murder, or any other crime just because everyone isn’t saved yet or because people continue to do it anyways. Law and order is mandatory for a civilized society. Yet you say that making abortion illegal won’t save babies. Of course it will! Yes, abortions would still occur but on a limited level and society would stop sending the false message that abortion on demand is acceptable, and more importantly, we would be following God’s will.

No it won't save babies, I don't have the resources now but I've seen statistics that could tell you that taking away women's choices like that, really does cause more death and destruction on a greater scale.

Again, shedding innocent blood is never acceptable. Until we change are barbaric ways, our country and world will endure due judgment.

The only way we are to do that is to preach the gospel to every creature which is the great commission we are here for.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all… .

This includes the unborn!

I agree with you, but taking away women's choices in a climate that objectifies and persecutes women, isn't the way! It's not!

Not allowing women autonomy over their bodies, is a very slippery slope and it will pave the way to other things.....choices in regards to birth, what a women can do or eat during pregnancy..the lise goes on.

You will have authorities bashing in doors of a mother who is in the throes of labour, binding her in handcuffs and dragging her to the hospital for a c-section....all in the name of 'fetal rights'.

And if you don't believe me.....look it up, it's already happened!

 

[Duckybill]

How can a Christian justify voting for a pro-abortion candidate? Polls show that Christians vote this way on a regular basis. After all, aren't we all held accountable for the choices we make in life?

Abortion is murder, IMO!

 

[Duckybill]

"Voting doesn’t guarantee that we will get who we want; rather, it allows us to make a public statement before God and society what we believe in, and that we are willing to make a conscious effort to preserve these values." (Source - Steadfast Christian)

Your vote is powerful and much needed today. God Bless

Yes indeed! Vote for the Lawyer/Liar of your choice.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Those that think abortion isn't murder also believe that punching a pregnant women in the stomach and killing her unborn baby is murder.

Mother kills unborn baby, that's some how ok.
But if anyone else does it when she doesn't want to, that's murder.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, God Bless you for helping the woman make the right decision. However, we are still miles apart regarding a woman's right to choose.

God is the author of life; therefore, the unborn child belongs to God. We are only caretakers in this world - the decision for life and death does not belong to us. God has entrusted us with our children to promote their life, not end it. It's as simple as that.
Your justification to keep abortion legal has no merit if you take it from a Christian perspective. It only makes sense from a worldly view. But God has told us to live "in the world, not of the world."

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is&#8212;his good, pleasing and perfect will. (Romans 12:2 NIV)