Christian Wicca

[Lifesaver]

Hitokiri, Luther considered the epistle of James a "letter of wick", so opposed this man was to good works (he said it was more important to avoid good works than sin!).

He then claimed the deuterocanonicals were not inspired, and took them out of the Bible.

And then protestants accuse Catholics of accepting the authority of men...

 

[ravenwolf]

You cant start making up stuff and call it truth unless you for for example an apostle.

So you are saying the apostles made stuff up?...cuz the way you wrote that sentence sure sounds like thats what your saying..that if your an apostle you can make stuff up and call it truth but if you arent than you cant do that.

 

[Crispie]

Hhaha wrote it in the wrong way my bad, Ill put, Come up with things, and claim it to be Gods word, thnx for pointing that out

 

[Lifesaver]

Crispie, the Jewish canon was that until 100 AD, when the Jews decided to take books away, only to give them the basis to deny Jesus Christ.
Why do you choose to follow the tradition of these men instead of the complete Bible, the inspired written word of God?

 

[Crispie]

I choose to follow the true bible, and refuse to believe a creation of the Catholic Church that claims it is the Word of God.

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

Interesting, that there still haven't been any verses provided...

 

[Crispie]

lol

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

Regardless of what Book of the Bible they come from, I want some verses.

 

[Lifesaver]

Verse for what, man?

Intercession of the saints? I'm yet to hear one valid objection against it.

St. Paul asks for people to pray for Him. St. James tells that the prayer of the righteous are very powerful. There is even a passage in the OT about God working a miracle through one dead man's relics (in this case, his bones). What else do you need? Will you only accept it if I showed you that Luther practiced it?

Keep repeating your "verses please" won't take all the points already made away. Luther indeed took Biblical books away, Jack Chick did invent many false things, and both of them created their own personal brand of Christianity, in opposition to the Church.

 

[Atomagenesis]

The Catholic Church didn't create the deuterocanon, the books were considered inspired when the Bible was put together by the Catholic church in 397 A.D., which was the only church for 1500 years until the reformation, they could have just as easily decided the Gospel of Luke wasn't inspired. They put the deutorocanon in the Bible because it was inspired, and then about 1100 years later one guy decided he didn't like some of the books so he took them out. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

Verses about Mary being sinless her entire life. Verses about paying the church to reduce "temporal punishiment."

You say that Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity. You seem to think that the Catholic church cannot make mistakes. Am I correct in assuming this?

 

[Crispie]

. St. James tells that the prayer of the righteous are very powerful.





Romans 5
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.




If you read this you can see this applys to every Christian, not just "special" christians. Adam through his sin made many generations of men sinners, but Christ through his sacrifice made many generations of men Rightioues for accepting him and becoming Saints.

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

And? Does it say that some believers are so righteous that you should pray to them?

 

[Atomagenesis]

The Church's clergy can make mistakes, the church's teachings will have no mistakes. There are no verses for buying indulgences, those were the sins of certain avaricious clergy members.

Mary being sinless her entire life:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

and www.catholic.com go to Mary on the left under library for quotes from early church fathers. from 80 A.D.+

 

[Lifesaver]

And? Does it say that some believers are so righteous that you should pray to them?

You have not read my link with enough attention, did you?
This is answered there.

 

[Atomagenesis]

By praying to them we mean asking them to pray for us, not worshipping them or considering them higher than God in any way.

You can also go to:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

for the intercession of Saints and to www.catholic.com for that as well

 

[Lifesaver]

If you read this you can see this applys to every Christian, not just "special" christians. Adam through his sin made many generations of men sinners, but Christ through his sacrifice made many generations of men Rightioues for accepting him and becoming Saints.

So, before proceeding, let's make this clear:
Do you believe that the prayer of all Christians is equally powerful?

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

So, before proceeding, let's make this clear:
Do you believe that the prayer of all Christians is equally powerful?

Yes.

 

[Lifesaver]

Yes.

Then why James even brought it up? Why did he say "righteous" (who was he differentiating against, seeing as his letter is directed only to Christians), and why did he cite the example of Elijah?

More reading material on intercession and communion of the saints (do read it)
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2004_06_20_socrates58_archive.html#108794430774197871

 

[peaceful soul]

So, before proceeding, let's make this clear:
Do you believe that the prayer of all Christians is equally powerful?

Excuse me, but I have to interrupt by saying, Yes, but when done in the way that our Father told us. There is no intercession for our prayers except Christ. Mary is not any more special than I am before Christ. Praying to Mary, for example, takes the personal relationship away that we are supposed to have with Christ only. It is a direct violation of intercessory prayer per Bible.

Mary is no more of a saint that I am. All people who have accepted Christ on His terms are saints. God sent some apostles, teachers, etc.......... for the perfecting of the saints. Get the context of saints down properly. Mary being a special saint?? Who are we to boast, but boasting in the works of Christ. Since when did our works become elevated to the works of Christ done through us by the Holy Spirit. So what special works did Mary do that the Holy Spirit does not do through every true Christian?

In all honesty, we should make a thread for this stuff. It is not fair to continue, let alone, start this off-topic discussion to begin with.

Please consider. I will not further comment on this off-topic portion but will be happy to discuss this in another thread or PM.