Christian Wicca

[Tytan]

I know I am late in this thread, but just wanted to point out that…

Didn't witchcraft originally translate as "poisoner" or something though?

In the ancient Greek writing of Hesiod and Homer are the earliest known text that specifically refers to Witches (Streghe) and identifies a witch using the Greek word “pharmakis”.



This is where the term pharmacist was derived. A Witch was later called a poisoner by bias zealots.



Richard Gordon in his “Imagining Greek and Roman Magic”, states that pharmakis became one of the standard words for wise-woman/Witch used as a substantive. This word expressed an association with drugs and incantations.



It is translated in Latin as “venefica”.



But in addition, “magick” or “magic” (whichever you want to use) is also the practice of what we call today..."metaphysical".

 

[HadouKen24]

It's nice to see an on-topic post once in a while...

Do you know of anywhere besides that book we could find information? Any web links or anything?

Sounds fascinating.

 

[Lifesaver]

Catholicism is its own religion, and Christianity is another Reigion.

That's quite wrong. The more someone is different from Catholicism, the less Christian they are.

Now I know why so many catholics disregard much of the bible that I show to them, since they also believe in other additions to Gods word made by the Church.

Yes, the Church which Jesus estabilished (and that's in the Bible...) and made inerrant and indefectible.
Not only are Catholics the Christians with the broadest Bible support, but also one of the few who can justify using the Bible in the first place.
Something that Jack Chick's and Crispie's brandr of Christianity, can't.

So no more shall I debate against Catholic beliefs, since Catholics dont even use the Bible in its purest form as the Truth of God, the only scripture to be given by God.

You will not debate anymore, that I believe in. However, to me the reasons seems to be that you have fallen into your own contradiction: claimed no extra-biblical authority and then relies your faith on men who "weeded" the books "very carefully".

I can only say this, I hope you realize your beliefs are on an addition created by the Church

Now, now. The only two pieces of anti-biblical creation we saw came from non-Catholic Jack Chick.

And remember, the Church is under the authority of Christ

Correct. Therefore, who is under the authority of the Church is under the authority of Christ. And who isn't... isn't.

 

[Crispie]

The reason I say Christianity is different from Catholicism is this. Christianity is defined in the bible clearly, then the definition is changed when Catholicism came in with new additions, this change created a new Religion. Mormons added to the bible, now its called Mormonism. And yes I KNOW mormonism is nothing like christianity, but it still added to the bible thus making it a new religion. The reason I disagree with Catholicism is because for example no where in the bible does it say that bread and wine transform into God then you eat God(durring communion), but merely for remembrance and symbolic for the new covenant. If this was in fact truely transformed into Gods body and blood when you ate it, well then Jesus would be eating his own blood and and body at the last supper. This is merely something thought up by Catholics many years after the completion of the bible.

 

[Lifesaver]

The reason I say Christianity is different from Catholicism is this. Christianity is defined in the bible clearly, then the definition is changed when Catholicism came in with new additions, this change created a new Religion.

Catholicism is the first and original form of Christianity! St. Peter was the first pope. It is protestantism which only came 1500 years later.

The reason I disagree with Catholicism is because for example no where in the bible does it say that bread and wine transform into God then you eat God(durring communion)

John 6:51-58
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

Like you do today, the Jews back then also found it very "weird" to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus (the Son of Man). Maybe it was symbolic? Maybe He meant something other than the literal meaning?
But no, Jesus made himself clear again, so that no-one would think He was not speaking literally.
Please, don't do like some disciples present at the scene who stopped following Jesus because this teaching was too "shocking" for them.

 

[Crispie]

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.


Jesus was showing his audience that he was the only spiritual food that would sustain their souls. He’s not talking about physically eating something he would provide. He’s not even talking about the Lord’s Supper in which we eat and drink his body and blood in a miraculous way. He’s talking about faith. He wants our souls to eat the bread of life, to feed on him, to be nourished and strengthened by the gospel.


"‘Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give you. (Anything we eat physically wont last so far as to still be in us in our new bodys in heaven)

This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Jesus indeed gave his body as a sacrifice, his perfect body, so that we may have life again, instead of death in sin.


For more information read this http://www.gloria-dei-belmont.org/sermons/sermon.2003.08.24.html


Matthew 13
9He who has ears, let him hear."
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

 

[Dark_Lite]

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.


Jesus was showing his audience that he was the only spiritual food that would sustain their souls. He’s not talking about physically eating something he would provide. He’s not even talking about the Lord’s Supper in which we eat and drink his body and blood in a miraculous way. He’s talking about faith. He wants our souls to eat the bread of life, to feed on him, to be nourished and strengthened by the gospel.


"‘Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give you. (Anything we eat physically wont last so far as to still be in us in our new bodys in heaven)

This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Jesus indeed gave his body as a sacrifice, his perfect body, so that we may have life again, instead of death in sin.


For more information read this http://www.gloria-dei-belmont.org/sermons/sermon.2003.08.24.html


Matthew 13
9He who has ears, let him hear."
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Obviously you don't see this, but your argument is extremely weak you know. Chick _is_ a nutcase, no matter how'd you like to get around it. He may quote scripture, but the way he uses is in no way Christian.

I also love how you are coming up with revisionist history. It's rather interesting. You seem to be paralleling Mormonism here, the Catholic Church took over Christianity and the Church fell into apostacy....

Next I'll bet you're going to counter with "God keeps his word alive" and such. Then I will say "This would most likely be through the historical church right? Or.. The Catholic Church."

Then you'll most likely counter with "God doesn't look at religion, he looks at the heart." Then I'll say "What is the purpose of God establishing a church and then having it go corrupt. He keeps his word and church alive right?"

Then you might say "Free will." Then I will probably say "But it's the Church that God established. Why would God let his church falter?"

It's going to go back and forth... I highly doubt you'll change your views about Chick either. You're like this guy I debated with in the witnessing forum. He kept coming up with extremely nutty and/or bad explanations to explain away every bit of evidence we threw at him . It was rather funny.

 

[Crispie]

Alright, your opinion, though that is all that I see it to be. By the way, if you actually take many things of Jesus literally, such as his parables, then you will be interpeting Jesus wrong.


Example


Luke 14:25-35 Now great multitudes were going with him. He turned and said to them, "If anyone comes to me, and doesn’t hate his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can’t be my disciple.


This doesnt mean to HATE your own family, but a disciple's preference for Jesus makes their preference for their family seem like hatred in comparison. Got it?

 

[Lifesaver]

Alright, your opinion, though that is all that I see it to be. By the way, if you actually take many things of Jesus literally, such as his parables, then you will be interpeting Jesus wrong.

Do you think Jesus was telling a parable when He said "whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life"?

He even made a point to be literal, whe He repeated it emphatically, making some disciples even leave Him because this teaching was too shocking for them.

 

[Crispie]

I dont believe Jesus wants us to eat his blood and flesh, Im not a cannibal, you are just interpetering in the wrong manner. Remember, Jesus had human blood and human flesh(born a human), but was also God and was also the Sacrifice for our sin. He is my saviour.

 

[Lifesaver]

Very well. If you find it shocking (and akin to cannibalism), you free to leave, like some disciples did. You are better off not partaking of communion at all, for, as Paul told us:

1 Corinthians 11:27
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.

I'll pray for our pious, pure and always Virgin Mary, mother of our Lord, that you are given the grace necessary to accept Jesus's difficult and shocking, but still necessary, teaching, so that one day you too may partake of this Holy Sacrament.

 

[Crispie]

Hey, you believe your churchs teachings Ill believe my Lords teachings, alright? This is why I dont like debating this to a catholic. Jesus didnt come for us to drink his physical blood and flesh in order to have everlasting life! He came for us to receive the truth and forgiveness. His truth and forgiveness shall stay with us forever, for everlasting life, it goes beyond physical food that can rot and decay, for Gods word does not do this.

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

I keep reading that Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity and that they do not add anything to scripture. So where to these indulgences, and large factor in the Reformation, come from? Where in the Bible does Christ command the Church to sell forgiveness? Also, where does He tell you that Mary should be prayed to and worshipped? Same for all of the Saints. Seems like borderline idol worship to me. Please explain to me how Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity.

 

[Lifesaver]

Hey, you believe your churchs teachings Ill believe my Lords teachings, alright?

If your Lord is Jesus, you will believe the Catholic Churc's teachings. Is your Lord Jesus?

This is why I dont like debating this to a catholic. Jesus didnt come for us to drink his physical blood and flesh in order to have everlasting life!

The Bible disagrees:

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

His truth and forgiveness shall stay with us forever, for everlasting life, it goes beyond physical food that can rot and decay, for Gods word does not do this.

Are you saying the body of our Lord rots and decays!?!?!? Are you saying it is tainted by sin?
By the way, you are right that his truth and forgiveness will stay with us forever. That's why we have the Church, which unlike Crispie or Jack Chick (both of whom claim to be led by the Holy Spirit), doesn't fall into error.

 

[Crispie]

John 6:27
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."




Jesus clearly is talking about food as in spiritual food, not food that we eat. Yes Jesus physical flesh while he was on earth for 33 years would rot if you were to cut off a piece of his body and throw it in the sun with maggots. But the spiritual food he gives us, cannot spoil nor be destroyed, and will stay with us foerver.




If your Lord is Jesus, you will believe the Catholic Churc's teachings. Is your Lord Jesus?




The only reason you say this is because of additions made by the catholic church, not because of scripture given by God through his people.


And remember, THE MEMBERS OF GODS FAMILY ARE THE CHURCH, NOT SOME BUILDING WITH LEADERS CONTROLLING AND DICTATING GODS WORD!

 

[Lifesaver]

I keep reading that Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity and that they do not add anything to scripture.

You must have been reading good things, then.

So where to these indulgences, and large factor in the Reformation, come from? Where in the Bible does Christ command the Church to sell forgiveness?

Indulgence is not the forgiveness of sin. It is the remission of temporal punishment for sins already forgiven. See? You were dead set against something you didn't have the slightest idea what it was.
Anti-Catholicism, stemming from many sources (protestant literature and socialist literature, mostly) passes on lies as truth.

Also, where does He tell you that Mary should be prayed to and worshipped? Same for all of the Saints. Seems like borderline idol worship to me.

God answers the prayers of His righteous followers than those who are not so good. The saints were particularly Godly, and therefore their prayers (especially those of Mary, who was sinless her whole life) have much more probability of being answered than ours.
You pray for your friends, I'm sure, so you can't have any objection about someone praying for someone else (which is exactly what the saints do for us).
More valuable information here:
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/praying.htm

 

[Dark_Lite]

I keep reading that Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity and that they do not add anything to scripture. So where to these indulgences, and large factor in the Reformation, come from? Where in the Bible does Christ command the Church to sell forgiveness? Also, where does He tell you that Mary should be prayed to and worshipped? Same for all of the Saints. Seems like borderline idol worship to me. Please explain to me how Catholicism is the purest form of Christianity.

Here we go...

Indulgences are not sold.

Mary is not worshipped.

The Communion of Saints is supported by the Bible. Go to www.scripturecatholic.com.

 

[God_of_Mercy]

If your Lord is Jesus, you will believe the Catholic Churc's teachings. Is your Lord Jesus?

If you think the Catholic Church is the only correct church u r sadly mistaken

Crispie has it right
Taking communion alone will not save you

 

[Crispie]

Prayer is a right given to all of us, if it coincides with Gods plan, he will allow it, no Saint has special prayer rights over us, especially since every single christian is a saint! We are not to pray to mary, but to PRAY TO GOD, just like Jesus did!.

 

[Dark_Lite]

If your Lord is Jesus, you will believe the Catholic Churc's teachings. Is your Lord Jesus?

If you think the Catholic Church is the only correct church u r sadly mistaken

Crispie has it right
Taking communion alone will not save you

Crispie has it wrong. Crispie likes to come up with revisionist history and explain away certain facts

Obviously partaking in communion alone does not save you.. I don't even know where you got that from...