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Christian values

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by zephcom, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I do note that once again you avoid the direct question, "how do you reconcile the teachings of Jesus with having voted for that particular candidate?" And I didn't say that there was a teaching which precluded you from voting for the least objectionable candidate. I said there was no teaching which required to to vote for the least objectionable candidate.

    In fact, the teachings of Jesus are such that they give broad goals and leave how the goals are to be reached up to the Follower. My suggestion is that if NEITHER candidate represents something close to Jesus' teachings, a Follower can choose to not vote for either.

    It has always been acceptable to cast aspersions on entire groups of people based on their lowest common denominator. That is why for decades Black people have all been assumed to be thieves, drug dealers, and criminals in general, why Jews have all been considered hoarders of money, why the Irish are thought of as drunks, it is why Trump got away with calling 'illegal aliens' drug dealers, rapists and criminals, and why Muslims are all considered terrorists.

    Only White people think they should not be judged by their lowest common denominator while they get to do that to everyone else.

    Welcome to equality.
     
  2. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    That's part of the controversy.

    Should they have been found guilty?
     
  3. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I'm good with you not agreeing with me on the idea that my idea of Christian Values isn't factual. I have been on Electronic forums since the days of 300 baud modems and local bulletin boards. I'm completely convinced that my concept of the meaning of the Christian Values dog whistle is completely correct.

    And the fact that it continues to exist is because Christianity itself refuses to deny it and call it out as wrong every time it is used.

    The reality today is that there is no longer any other meaning for Christian Values except that dog whistle. JESUS' values revolve around only one thing...Love.

    Taking people's health care away from them is not loving, defending agents of the state from prosecution when they murder people is not loving, denying women the right to decide what is right for their own bodies is not loving, ordering wars of conquest is not loving, harassing others for their sexual orientation is not loving, supporting capital punishment is not loving, waterboarding prisoners is not loving, and the list goes on and on.

    So just which "value" are Christians talking about when they use the term in regard to politics? Every single one I've come across in some thirty or more years on forums have been designed to harm someone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  4. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    It's only controversial to people who prejudged the situations (like our former president) and didn't get the decisions they wanted.
     
  5. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's ridiculous when people on the extreme right use that line of "reasoning" to promote bigotry against Muslims. It's no less ridiculous when the extreme left uses it to promote their bigotry against Christians.

    At what point do we stop stealing from one group of people in favor of another group? Please tell me where exactly is the line.

    Aside from members of law enforcement, is there anyone else whom you feel entitled to deprive of their constitutional right to due process?

    As opposed to dismembering unborn babies in the womb because their an inconvenience to their "mothers?"

    I have yet to see anyone here disagreeing with that position.

    It's Biblical.
     
  6. Allandavid

    Allandavid Well-Known Member

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    At what point do we stop making a fair contribution to our society as a whole?

    "they're"...and they aren't babies....and there are many reasons for women to make that choice...

    So is the stoning of gays....so what?
     
  7. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    The people stealing from others always seem to feel they're entitled.

    Ah yes, pretending to value human life while refusing to defend the most vulnerable examples of it. How lovely.
     
  8. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    .
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Christian values are clearly set out in 1 Corinthians 13 and Galatians 5:22,23). Any conduct is not consistent with those lists, is not Christian conduct. The scripture says that those who do not have the spirit of Christ are none of His. Therefore, those who conduct themselves according to those two scriptural passages are the only ones who has the spirit of Christ.
     
  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    I found both so objectionable I write-in voted for my daughter.
     
  11. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I've been tempted to write in cartoon characters a time or two.
     
  12. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    You are free to think something is ridiculous if you choose. However the reality is that people's perception of a product or religion is largely based on what they hear and see. But let me make myself really clear on one issue, it is Christianity that I am against. It is NOT Christians I'm against. Far too many people seem unable to grasp that Christianity is a religion and is not them personally.

    Stealing from one group of people in favor of another group?? I've never advocated stealing from anyone. Taxing a population for money to use for the benefit of all is not stealing. And it is disingenuous to suggest that it is.

    Remember, it was Jesus who said, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

    I never suggested that anyone deprive police from their right to due process. If anyone is being denied their right to due process it is the people law enforcement execute on the streets of America. I will suggest that laws which are designed to protect police officers from any prosecution should be modified so that officers are no longer allowed simply recited the phrase, "I was scared for my life" and be excused from even the most obvious case of murder. We have made turned our police into an occupying military force rather than a security force designed to protect us from criminals. Despite your attempts to misrepresent my position, I am not anti-law enforcement. I am in favor of responsible law enforcement.

    And again you resort to inflammatory rhetoric to misrepresent my point with your 'dismembering unborn babies' comment. The abortion issue is not something that justifies denying women the right to control their own health care. It is, however, an issue which American politicians and the Christian religion likes to use to inflame people to support their causes.

    The reality is that taking away a woman's control over their health issues will not stop abortion. It will make more 'criminals' to put into our already over crowded prison, but it will do nothing at all to stop abortion. It never has in the past and never will in the future.

    The reality is that the American culture creates the situation where women are pressured into making the decision to abort a pregnancy. And until those culture issues are changed abortions will continue either legally or illegally. When women can be assured they will be able earn a salary as high as men so they can support a family and when women who choose to not have an abortion are viewed by the males in this culture as desirable for marriage instead of viewed as [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s, the abortion rate will go down. And inflammatory rhetoric will not change that reality.

    It is also Biblical that Jesus said that He fulfilled the Law and that His Two Commandments replaced the Law. It is the fault of Christianity that so many Christians think they are supposed to be both Jews and Christians depending on what suits their fancy.

    In Matthew 5, Jesus said this, "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

    In Matthew 22, right after Jesus gave His Two Commandments He said this, "40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    When one practices His two commandments, they are, according to Jesus, complying with both the Law and the Prophets. Christianity will try to tell you that isn't true but the Bible really does say exactly that.

    For a Follower of Jesus, the entire 'Old Testament' is nothing more than historical information. Nothing in it has any binding control over a Follower. The binding control is Jesus' Two Commandments because EVERYTHING in the Law and Prophets hang from those two commandments.

    Christianity should know that because the Bible IS their religious tome. The religion chooses not to teach that.
     
  13. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Your disdain for Christianity is quite clear. But I do thank you for at least being transparent about it. Most wolves wear sheep's clothing.

    My friend, you don't know how incorrect you are. Jesus didn't replace the Old Testament; He fulfilled it. If you don't understand the Old Testament, you don't understand Jesus.
     
  14. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    How did they prejudge?
     
  15. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Prejudging someone guilty absent due process.
     
  16. Allandavid

    Allandavid Well-Known Member

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    ...says the person who just got through 'valuing human life' by describing the poor and the destitute as thieves...
     
  17. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. When one fulfills a contract, like ones house mortgage, one no longer has an obligation to that contract. It no longer has any binding effect.

    He set up new obligations for those who choose to follow Him. They are His Two Great Commandments.

    One can use the Old Testament as historical information. One can use the Old Testament to learn about the religion Jesus was a part of and why the Jews were looking for a Messiah. But the laws, rules and rituals of the Old Testament no longer carry any obligation on the Followers of Jesus because Jesus fulfilled those obligations. The obligation of Followers is to obey Jesus' Commandments.
     
  18. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Um, no, but nice try.
     
  19. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    You really don't understand Christianity, but I pray that one day the Lord opens your heart to the truth. The fact that He brought you here is encouraging.
     
  20. Allandavid

    Allandavid Well-Known Member

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    Um, no, it was a very accurate "try"...

     
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