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Christian values

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by zephcom, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Right off the top let me admit that this is one article from a newspaper which is left leaning and it is one community in America. It is hardly what one would call comprehensive.

    For those in the Party of Trump, the Republicans — not the president — are to blame

    These are people who identify as Christian and if one assumes the quotes are accurate, and there is no reason to believe they aren't since I don't see outrage over them at this point, I don't see anything there that resembles Jesus and especially His second commandment.

    Should Christianity as a religion continue to remain silent and allow people in America and the rest of the planet to assume silence is agreement?
     
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  2. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you could be more specific as to what in this article troubles you. I am a devout Christian who voted for Donald Trump, so how can I help you?
     
  3. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    It's time for a Holy March to take place as protest against injustice, poverty, abuse
    criminality, the possession of weapon as guns. Enough is enough. Is time to awaken.
    Our God does not sleep nor slumber.
     
  4. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    It would be interesting to hear what these folks consider "christian values".
     
  5. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    How do you reconcile the teachings of Jesus...and just to be specific...found in the Sermon on the Mount and His Second Great Commandment with the goals, ambitions and consistent behavior of Trump?
     
  6. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I did notice in the article the reporter asked what she meant by Christian Values and the lady sidestepped the question.
     
  7. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I don't so much worry about God sleeping or slumbering as much as I am concerned that what is known as 'Christianity' in this country has left Jesus completely and is now wandering aimlessly in the proverbial desert without any moral compass.
     
  8. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    Reading between the lines, their view of christian values includes:

    1. kicking brown people out of the US.
    2. kicking people off their health insurance so rich people can get a tax break.
    3. talk about christian values, even if you don't follow them.
    4. keep your mouth shut if blacks are killed by police.
     
  9. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Elections come down to two candidates. I found Trump the least objectionable of the two. Some of his ideas I agree with; some I do not.

    Something else we need to keep in mind is that none of us is perfect. We are all sinners and all fall short of the glory of God. To think that Christians can or should only vote for people who perfectly represent the teachings of Jesus Christ (when none of us do) is unrealistic.
     
  10. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    There is something in American politics called 'dog whistle' words. These are the words politicians use...and they have fallen into general use...which convey a message to those who (wink, wink) understand them. I suspect that 'Christian Values' is one such word.

    Those who don't (wink, wink) hear the 'dog whistle' think people are talking about the values of Jesus and His two commandments. Those who understand know that what is really being talked about is a return to the way America functioned in the 1950's before all the Civil Rights things happened.

    People of Color knew their place, women were good with being house wives and considered too stupid to be anything else, and men were always the studs who could brag about getting laid while the women who laid them had to sneak out of town for an abortion.
     
  11. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, now I understand your post. Not that it's the least but factual, but now I see the distorted lens through which you view Christianity.
     
  12. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    So you really didn't apply any of Jesus' teachings to your decision making process? A woman who messed up her e-mails was more objectionable than a man who is a womanizer, fake Christian, spends his morning hours tweeting hateful messages to anyone and everyone, and may well have committed treason?

    Getting back to my specifics, how do you reconcile the teachings of Jesus with having voted for that particular candidate? I don't recall Jesus ever teaching that His followers -had- to cast a ballot even if it were for the least objectionable.

    I suspect that some Christians...and I'm not pointing fingers at you or anyone in particular...keep their religion compartmentalized in a way which allows them to be devout sometimes and secular other times.

    That is not something I've been able to do. I think the big world should operate exactly like my personal world. IOW, I think my country should behave as I behave. I think I should behave the same whether I'm in church or in a tavern.
     
  13. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    From the article:

    Strickland said that he has never seen the country so racially divided, and he blames Obama for “causing trouble” and widening “the gap between the races” by getting involved when black teenagers were shot by white police officers, which Strickland views as rare occurrences that the media blows out of proportion.

    Odds are that white police officers are going to shoot and kill more unarmed black people than people of all races will be killed by terrorists. I am betting that Strickland doesn't think terrorism is being blown out of proportion.

    How is this a christian value?
     
  14. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    When Trayvon Martin was killed, Obama went on television and said if he had a son he'd look just like Trayvon. When Michael Brown was killed (while attacking a police officer nonetheless) Obama sided with Brown by sending a white house contingency to his funeral. Obama did these things long before any due process was afforded the shooters, neither of whom were found guilty of any wrongdoing. For the last few years of his presidency, Obama made his contempt for law enforcement very well known.

    And yes, statistically speaking, unjustified shootings of black people by white officers is a very rare occurrence.

    I agree with Strickland regarding the media. Every time a police shooting is reported I can immediately tell if the person shot was black or not by whether his/her race is mentioned in the headline. If you don't think our media fans the flames of racial discord, please look again.
     
  15. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    The concept of Dog Whistle Politics is certainly factual:

    Dog-whistle politics - Wikipedia

    You could well be one of those who don't hear that in the term 'Christian Values'. That would bode well for you in my eyes, but it doesn't mean that there are not others out there for whom the message comes through loud and clear.

    You are right, however that is the lens I see Christianity through, regardless of whether we can agree on whether it is distorted or not. As I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums, Christianity refuses to defend its 'brand'.

    Christianity allows anyone total freedom to use Christianity for whatever purpose they see fit. And when people who truly see Jesus and His teachings as the driving force of Christianity sit by quietly while others take over the religion and drag it through the mud, those people should not be upset when people like me denigrate what could have been a truly great religion.

    Returning America to the ways of the 1950s does nothing to advance Jesus in this world. Jim Crow, White Supremacy, male patriarchy and the KKK diminishes Jesus and tarnishes His teachings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  16. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Are you familiar with the term "strawman?"

    Tell me what you know about the teachings of Jesus that you think precluded me from voting for the least objectionable candidate.

    I'm sure "some" people do. Is it now acceptable to cast aspersions on entire groups of people based on their lowest common denominator? Seems a little prejudicial to me.
     
  17. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    This is the biggest lie in American politics. If people didn't have this attitude, then third party candidates would actually have a chance. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the two evil aliens run for president, one as a Republican and the other as a Democrat, even though they both want to enslave the human race. One of them ends up getting elected because no one will vote for a third party candidate.
     
  18. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say the term "dog whistle" wasn't factual. What lacked a factual basis was your opinion about Christian values.

    And who here is disagreeing with you on that point? But for you to state this is what is meant when Christians talk of Christian values in the context of politics has about as much validity as Hillary running across the tarmac as she landed under sniper fire in Bosnia.

    Look, at some point in time the extreme left is just going to have to realize that screaming "RACIST!!!" at everyone with whom they disagree isn't a viable means of persuasion anymore. They should have gotten the memo by now. It was dated November 8th.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  19. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    He made his contempt of wrongful shootings well known. That's not the same as contempt for law enforcement.

    So are most of the things on the nightly news.

    So you don't think we should be mad when police shoot unarmed people? Is that a christian value?
     
  20. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    And neither of those shootings were found wrongful.

    Were either of the people who pulled the trigger in my examples found guilty of any wrongdoing?
     
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