Christian Question - Please Answer :)

[timothyu]

The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

I would like to explain why, but I'm afraid it might take things off topic and get my hand slapped by the moderators for doing that. How about if you start another thread and I will be more than happy to explain why. Agree?

 

[Robban]

Ex 33:19 The LORD said, “I will make all My goodness pass in front of you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD in your presence. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy.” 20 He said, “You cannot see my face, for no human may see me and live.”

In the Hebrew Scriptures, several people saw the LORD. How is it that no human may see the LORD and live?

Who?

He has no shape or form.
The brightness would be too much to withstand.
He is outside of everything we would have go outside of Him.

 

[JackRT]

Who?

He has no shape or form.
The brightness would be too much to withstand.
He is outside of everything we would have go outside of Him.

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ (emphasis my own)

 

[Robban]

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ (emphasis my own)

There is nowhere He is not.

That does not mean we are able to see Him physically,

"At Sinai you saw no shape or form, you heard a voice".

 

[timothyu]

for in Him we live and move and have our being

We are extensions of God as is all His creation. That is why when we do something to another, we have done it to ourselves.

 

[Robban]

Hi Robban,

No, what I said was "some of this" we cannot comprehend with our finite minds.

Hi,
so glad I found this post,
I wanted you to know that I was not being mean,

I thought it was amusing.

Not in a nasty way.

Hoping diplomatic relations are not disturbed,

 

[Kris Jordan]

Yes! My question is what is the difference between a divine being vs a distinct person?

But the guys who originated the concept had finite minds; if they can comprehend it, why can’t we?

The Trinity didn’t come from the Bible, it was originated and voted upon by the Catholic Church.

The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

Hi Ken-1122,

I appreciate your forthrightness and willingness to ask questions on things that confuse you. To answer them:

1. The difference between God (who is a Divine Being) and us (who are distinct people) is that God is holy and perfect in every way (in nature, character, action, deed, thought, word, motive, etc.) and we are not.
2. There were no "guys" who originated the concept of God. God tells us about Himself in His Word, the Bible, which was written by men of God as the Holy Spirit (God) led them to write what they did.
   
   
   "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16 (NASB)​
   
   
   "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB)​
   
   
3. The Trinity and the teaching about it comes from God's Word (the Bible), not any church.
4. God's Triune Being doesn't have to make sense for us to believe Him. We don't understand exactly how electricity works but we put our trust in it to work every day when we turn on the light switch. We don't understand the concept of gravity, but we know it exists based on various factors.

What else about God doesn't make sense to you?

 

[Kris Jordan]

Hi,
so glad I found this post,
I wanted you to know that I was not being mean,

I thought it was amusing.

Not in a nasty way.

Hoping diplomatic relations are not disturbed,

Hi Robban,

Thanks for clarifying your post. No worries, no harm, no foul.

 

[muichimotsu]

This kind of analogy would be akin to modalism: 3 different states.

Which is practically the only way it isn't an utter contradiction of saying they are somehow 3 entities that share in the same essence, effectively saying A is B and C while also being A, entirely violating a basic logical principle

 

[muichimotsu]

Hi Kenn-1122,

You asked about the difference between God as a Being and a Person. God is a Divine Being as opposed to a human being (with the exception of Jesus, who is both 100% God and 100% man; i.e., God manifested in the flesh), and each Member of the Trinity is a distinct Person.

Some of this we're not able to comprehend with our finite minds. It requires faith on our part in what God says about Himself in His Word, the Bible. As the Scriptures say, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6

What is your struggle with believing (in) God?

If I may chime in briefly: you're basically encouraging one not to actually pursue answers at all because otherwise it would be utterly contradictory and engaging in massive compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance

My struggle with believing in any god, especially the Abrahamic iterations, is that it doesn't value reason in the slightest, only as a means to an end for "faith", rather than an end in itself of finding a rational worldview instead of rationalizing with faith as the excuse when your standards end up speculative on something transcendent and bordering on imaginary

 

[muichimotsu]

I agree with you that the concept of God as presented by a lot of Christians doesn't make sense. If you want, you can use their faulty answers as an excuse for your unbelief.

Oh, don't try to victim blame in any sense here, as if having high standards means one will just take a definition at face value and not investigate further. And it's even more disingenuous to shift responsibility onto the "fake" Christians, as if your explanation will somehow be adequate in contrast, which is presumptuous on your part

I don't use their "faulty" answers as an excuse, because 1) I don't assume there is an accurate definition of God as an essentially imaginary and incoherent entity and 2) I prefer to place belief on something based on the merits of the argument, not how many people may advocate it

 

[Kris Jordan]

If I may chime in briefly: you're basically encouraging one not to actually pursue answers at all because otherwise it would be utterly contradictory and engaging in massive compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance

My struggle with believing in any god, especially the Abrahamic iterations, is that it doesn't value reason in the slightest, only as a means to an end for "faith", rather than an end in itself of finding a rational worldview instead of rationalizing with faith as the excuse when your standards end up speculative on something transcendent and bordering on imaginary

Hi Muichimotsu,

Christianity does not throw reasoning out the window by any means, nor is it based upon "blind faith." I encourage you to check out the books, "The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith."

 

[muichimotsu]

Hi Muichimotsu,

Christianity does not throw reasoning out the window by any means, nor is it based upon "blind faith." I encourage you to check out the books, "The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith."

Being convinced by what you think is sufficient and good evidence is nto the same thing as having intellectual honesty and humility to consider whether those standards you hold are reasonable. Doesn't have to be blind faith to still be a bad justification for beliefs based on faith in supposed "evidence" that's inferring agency and purpose behind events you cannot pretend to have a major understanding of

And Strobel's whole angle, from what I understand, is that it's more probable, not that it's remotely demonstrated even by historical evidence. Him being an editor and such doesn't add more credence to his argument, to say nothing of the atheist turned Christian trope that usually doesn't actually match up nearly as well as one would think (as in he's a misotheist, not an atheist, since he supposedly resented God for bad things happening rather than, as an atheist, being unconvinced by the arguments).

 

[Kris Jordan]

Being convinced by what you think is sufficient and good evidence is nto the same thing as having intellectual honesty and humility to consider whether those standards you hold are reasonable. Doesn't have to be blind faith to still be a bad justification for beliefs based on faith in supposed "evidence" that's inferring agency and purpose behind events you cannot pretend to have a major understanding of

And Strobel's whole angle, from what I understand, is that it's more probable, not that it's remotely demonstrated even by historical evidence. Him being an editor and such doesn't add more credence to his argument, to say nothing of the atheist turned Christian trope that usually doesn't actually match up nearly as well as one would think (as in he's a misotheist, not an atheist, since he supposedly resented God for bad things happening rather than, as an atheist, being unconvinced by the arguments).

Hi Muichimotsu,

So, are you willing to read the books for yourself? Second, why have you chosen to be a Buddhist?

 

[muichimotsu]

Hi Muichimotsu,

So, are you willing to read the books for yourself? Second, why have you chosen to be a Buddhist?

I honestly would prefer to spend my time reading fiction that can enrich my creative side rather than engage with apologists that use a modern construction of evidence to conclude fallaciously that something being probable means it must have happened

And my worldview is not exclusively Buddhist, I consider it a placeholder. But as for why, because it's actually intellectually honest enough to put the responsibility squarely on humans to address our problems instead of shifting everything back onto an outside source to "fix" us and expect obedience like proverbial servants in order to be "rewarded"

 

[timothyu]

What else about God doesn't make sense to you?

The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi Ken-1122,

I appreciate your forthrightness and willingness to ask questions on things that confuse you. To answer them:
The difference between God (who is a Divine Being) and us (who are distinct people) is that God is holy and perfect in every way (in nature, character, action, deed, thought, word, motive, etc.) and we are not.

That is not what I asked. The Trinity defines God as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; 3 (divine) persons one God (being). I’ve always seen a person and a being as the same, but apparently you guys see them as different so I’m asking what is the difference.

were no "guys" who originated the concept of God.

1. God tells us about Himself in His Word, the Bible, which was written by men of God as the Holy Spirit (God) led them to write what they did.

Are you saying men on behalf of the Catholic Church did not coin the term Trinity? If its not in the Bible, yet it is a part of your creed, where did it come from?

The Trinity and the teaching about it comes from God's Word (the Bible), not any church.

So which scriptures in the Bible speaks of the Trinity?

God's Triune Being doesn't have to make sense for us to believe Him.

For me it does.

We don't understand exactly how electricity works but we put our trust in it to work every day when we turn on the light switch. We don't understand the concept of gravity, but we know it exists based on various factors.

We do know how those things work, it’s just there are some things about those things that we don’t know. We may not know everything there is to know about electricity, but how it works with a light switch, that we do know.

What else about God doesn't make sense to you?

Timothyu started a thread where I list my misgivings. Feel free to jump in and respond

The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Ken-1122]

The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

Yes! I am looking forward to your reply

K

 

[Andrewn]

1) I don't assume there is an accurate definition of God as an essentially imaginary and incoherent entity and 2) I prefer to place belief on something based on the merits of the argument, not how many people may advocate it

To me, God is not "an essentially imaginary and incoherent entity." I've quoted views which make sense to me in the following thread:

Godhead vs. Trinity

You're welcome to analyze "the merits of the argument."

And my worldview is not exclusively Buddhist, I consider it a placeholder. But as for why, because it's actually intellectually honest enough to put the responsibility squarely on humans to address our problems instead of shifting everything back onto an outside source to "fix" us and expect obedience like proverbial servants in order to be "rewarded"

Buddhism is a great philosophy / religion. Buddhists would make great Christians if they start to believe the truth.

 

[muichimotsu]

You do realize making sense to you is not indicative of actual truth behind something in reality, right? There isn't merit in an argument if the basis is not an argument, but mere conviction that it makes "sense". And if this boils down to sentiments, it's even less reliable, because we are notoriously fallible in inferring agency and purpose behind general experiences and data; apophenia in particular

~~~~~

Yeah, assuming you have the exclusive truth isn't going to help your case that people should follow you when you've failed to demonstrate it in the first place. Maybe focusing more on some common ground instead of splitting hairs about how they're not in your club might help in some bridging of gaps and not sounding like you're proselytizing