Christian Nudists

[A Catholic Friend]

If anyone wants a nudist pen pal I have skype.

 

[A Catholic Friend]

If anyone wants a pen pal I have skype. A skype pal?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

If you see me naked, look the other way. If it offends you, think of what it is you do that might offend others. You talk of “rather than considering others, self indulgence....”, but aren’t you being rather judgmental about this?

"Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame." [Revelation 16:15]

"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings." [Genesis 3:7]

"Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard. He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father’s nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. So he said, 'Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants he shall be to his brothers.'" [Genesis 9:20-25]

"And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it." [Exodus 20:26]

"Your nakedness will be uncovered, Your shame also will be exposed." [Isaiah 47:3]

"Therefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God, 'Because your lewdness was poured out and your nakedness uncovered through your harlotries with your lovers and with all your detestable idols, and because of the blood of your sons which you gave to idols, therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, even all those whom you loved and all those whom you hated. So I will gather them against you from every direction and expose your nakedness to them that they may see all your nakedness.'" [Ezekiel 16:35-40]

"And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs." [Luke 8:27]

"Because you say, 'I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,' and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." [Revelation 3:17]

Matthew 7 – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”

Luke 6:37 – “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”

You can't use "Judge not, lest ye be judged" to try and excuse your own sinfulness.

"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." [1 Corinthians 15:12-13

I bothers me when people endorse, such as you have done, the use of violence because we disagree. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Yep, that's exactly why I said "I'm not calling for violence. I'm saying Calvin and Knox would most likely have gotten pretty angry." in post #220 [found here].

 

[Eudaimonist]

Speaking of pools, if your friends knew that you were a nudist and they said go ahead and swim nude we don't mind, would you do it or be too reserved to try it?

I would swim nude.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[toramei]

Shame = feeling guilty for improper behavior.
That is what Adam and Eve had when they disobeyed.
When JESUS died on the cross and took our guilt and shame away have we forgotten?
Improper behavior is it when someone takes off his clothes to jump in the water to save a drowning victim?
Is it when working out in the fields where women and men take off there clothes to keep working to be more comfortable?
Is it improper behavior for em technicians at an accident scene to cut your clothes off to administer first aid?
Is it improper for a mother out in a public venue to strip off her child's clothing because the child had disturbed a nest of ground bees and are stinging her child?
All these scenes contain public nudity so for onlookers does this cause lust?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Shame = feeling guilty for improper behavior.
That is what Adam and Eve had when they disobeyed.
When JESUS died on the cross and took our guilt and shame away have we forgotten?
Improper behavior is it when someone takes off his clothes to jump in the water to save a drowning victim?
Is it when working out in the fields where women and men take off there clothes to keep working to be more comfortable?
Is it improper behavior for em technicians at an accident scene to cut your clothes off to administer first aid?
Is it improper for a mother out in a public venue to strip off her child's clothing because the child had disturbed a nest of ground bees and are stinging her child?
All these scenes contain public nudity so for onlookers does this cause lust?

None of these cases bear semblance to the practice of nudists. Nudists walk around naked just because they "feel like it."

As for Jesus taking away the shame of nudity, you forget what He says in Revelation: "Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame." [Revelation 16:15]

 

[toramei]

Revelations 16 starting at 14 Theses miracle-working demons conferred with all the rulers of the world to gather them for battle against the LORD on that great coming Judgment Day of GOD Almighty."Take note:I will come as unexpectedly as a thief ! Blessed are all who are awaiting me,who keep their robes in readiness and will not need to walk naked and ashamed. "
According to this verse in reality we must be clothed at all times,swim with our clothes on,take showers with our clothes on,Never go see a doctor for a physical to have our prostate checked.Women must not get mammograms or see gynecologist.Just in readiness for the Judgment Day.
I myself will be naked and have my robe in readiness.

 

[toramei]

So Adam and Eve sinned the first sin.Original sin.
Then came JESUS who died on the cross and took our sins and washed our sins away all of them not just some.That included the original sin also.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Revelations 16 starting at 14 Theses miracle-working demons conferred with all the rulers of the world to gather them for battle against the LORD on that great coming Judgment Day of GOD Almighty."Take note:I will come as unexpectedly as a thief ! Blessed are all who are awaiting me,who keep their robes in readiness and will not need to walk naked and ashamed. " [...] I myself will be naked and have my robe in readiness.

Close, but no cigar.

Ἰδοὺ ἔρχομαι ὡς κλέπτης μακάριος ὁ γρηγορῶν καὶ τηρῶν τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ ἵνα μὴ γυμνὸς περιπατῇ καὶ βλέπωσιν βλέπωσιν βλέπωσιν αὐτοῦ [Revelation 16:15]​

A more word-for-word translation would be:

Ἰδοὺ [look, behold] ἔρχομαι [I come] ὡς [as, like] κλέπτης [a thief] μακάριος [blessed] ὁ [the, one who] γρηγορῶν [watching] καὶ [and] τηρῶν [keeping] τὰ [the] ἱμάτια [outer garment] αὐτοῦ [here, of him] ἵνα [in order that, so that] μὴ [not] γυμνὸς [naked, bare] περιπατῇ [he walk] καὶ [and] βλέπωσιν [they see, they look at] τὴν [the] ἀσχημοσύνην [unseemliness, shame, nakedness] αὐτοῦ [here, of him].
​

Thus, without the Greek, you're left with this:

(Look / Behold) I come (as / like) a thief. Blessed (the / one who) watching and keeping the outer garment (here / of him) (in order that / so that) not (naked / bare) he walk and (they see / they look at) the (unseemliness / shame / nakedness) (here / of him).
​

However, you said Revelation 16:15 was:

"Take note: I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are awaiting me, who keep their robes in readiness and will not need to walk naked and ashamed."
​

Now, now, Toramei, be honest, what translation did you use? Was it The Living Bible? Yeah, it was The Living Bible. So what's wrong with The Living Bible?

Well, Toramei, it's a paraphrase. In the words of the "translator", Kenneth N. Taylor:

"The children were one of the chief inspirations for producing the Living Bible. Our family devotions were tough going because of the difficulty we had understanding the King James Version, which we were then using, or the Revised Standard Version, which we used later. All too often I would ask questions to be sure the children understood, and they would shrug their shoulders—they didn't know what the passage was talking about. So I would explain it. I would paraphrase it for them and give them the thought. It suddenly occurred to me one afternoon that I should write out the reading for that evening thought by thought, rather than doing it on the spot during our devotional time. So I did, and read the chapter to the family that evening with exciting results—they knew the answers to all the questions I asked!" ["Ken Taylor, God's Voice In The Vernacular," Christianity Today, 1979]
​

So, really, Toramei, you can't use a paraphrase-based Bible to try and prove the exact meaning of a Biblical verse, because it's not a real translation.

How about some alternatives? You say on your profile that you are Christian, but give no denomination, so I'll go through the most significant:

1] If you're Catholic, you'll most likely use the RSV-Catholic Edition:

"Lo, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is he who is awake, keeping his garments that he may not go naked and be seen exposed!" [Revelation 16:15, RSV-CE]
​

2] If you're a mainline Protestant, you'll probably use the NRSV:

"See, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and is clothed, not going about naked and exposed to shame." [Revelation 16:15, NRSV]
​

3] If you're a Confessional Protestant, you'll likely use the ESV:

"Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!" [Revelation 16:15, ESV]
​

4] If you're a practitioner of a KJV-only movement, you'll use the AV:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." [Revelation 16:15, AV]
​

5] If you're a Biblical scholar, you'll likely use the NASB:

"Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame." [Revelation 16:15]​

 

[Archivist]

A very long post--longer than I would have time to write--that ignores the fact that Jesus died on a cross for our sins. We are washed clean.

BTW, still waiting for any explanation as to why St. Peter fished nude.

Also if nudity is so evil why were baptisms in the early church performed in the nude?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

A very long post--longer than I would have time to write--that ignores the fact that Jesus died on a cross for our sins. We are washed clean.

Yet Christ does not impart cheap grace, the grace that allows us to keep on sinning freely because Christ died, but rather the costly grace that forces us to become His disciples and walk willingly in His ways and commands.

 

[Archivist]

Yet Christ does not impart cheap grace, the grace that allows us to keep on sinning freely because Christ died, but rather the costly grace that forces us to become His disciples and walk willingly in His ways and commands.

Nothing wrong with going nude in public. I've been in nude beaches many times.

Perhaps you would like to respond to the two questions I raised in my previous post. The fact that you did not respond indicates to me that you do not have answers.

 

[toramei]

I study different bibles except the catholic bible.New international version has Revelations 16 verse 15 as follows "Behold, I come like a thief ! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him,so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
At least one thing is for certain these discussions are getting us closer to GOD by the word of GOD with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Another interesting reading is 1 Peter 3 verse 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment , such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes.4 Instead,it should be that of your inner self,the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit,which is of great worth in GOD'S sight.
We have many different bibles in this world many different translations from one language to another.So we trust GOD and have faith that HIS word is true.Some translators want the verses to bring more clarity.The bottom line is I pray that whoever reads the bible in whatever language or translation that GOD'S most important command of " Love the LORD with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself."
I pray dear GOD that I do not cause hatred or stir up emotions in others to become angry.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

BTW, still waiting for any explanation as to why St. Peter fished nude.

Also if nudity is so evil why were baptisms in the early church performed in the nude?

1] I never once said that nudity was evil, I said that it has a specific place, and that casually walking around naked in public outside of certain necessitous situations is not that place. Do you remember the rest of the verse about St. Peter fishing?

"Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord." So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea." [John 21:7 NASB]​

2] Why were baptisms in the early church performed in the nude?

If you read any Church Fathers [which obviously you haven't], they remark that the idea of stripping nude in baptism was to mirror the shame of the stripped and crucified Christ:

"Having stripped yourselves, ye were naked; in this also imitating Christ, who was stripped naked on the Cross, and by His nakedness put off from Himself the principalities and powers, and openly triumphed over them on the tree. For since the adverse powers made their lair in your members, ye may no longer wear that old garment; I do not at all mean this visible one, but the old man, which waxeth corrupt in the lusts of deceit." [St. Cyril of Jerusalem]​

Nothing wrong with going nude in public. I've been in nude beaches many times.

The only Biblically acceptable times for going nude are [1] sex, [2] sleep, [3] work, and [4] at God's command.

Walking around nude for fun and leisure is sinful, as you uncover your shame before others.

 

[Archivist]

1] I never once said that nudity was evil, I said that it has a specific place, and that casually walking around naked in public outside of certain necessitous situations is not that place. Do you remember the rest of the verse about St. Peter fishing?

"Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord." So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea."​

Yes I remember that--I have asking for an explanation. So it is acceptable to be nude in public if you are working. Using your reasoning it is acceptable for a stripper to be nude because she is working, but one cannot be nude on a beach. Right.

Why were baptisms in the early church performed in the nude? If you read any Church Fathers [which obviously you haven't], they remark that the idea of stripping nude in baptism was to mirror the shame of the stripped and crucified Christ:

"Having stripped yourselves, ye were naked; in this also imitating Christ, who was stripped naked on the Cross, and by His nakedness put off from Himself the principalities and powers, and openly triumphed over them on the tree. For since the adverse powers made their lair in your members, ye may no longer wear that old garment; I do not at all mean this visible one, but the old man, which waxeth corrupt in the lusts of deceit." [\QUOTE]​

No need to throw insults here--"which obviously you haven't"--I have although probably not to the extent that you have. So nudity it acceptable for religious reasons. I don't recall you saying that before. So the nude churches that were spoken about earlier in this thread are fine.

The only Biblically acceptable times for going nude are [1] sex, [2] sleep, [3] work, and [4] at God's command.[\QUOTE]

So I was sinning during my recent visit to my female doctor. Right.

Walking around nude for fun and leisure is sinful, as you uncover your shame before others.

Nonsense. We have already been told that going nude would upset John Calvin. Frankly I think that would be a good thing since he was a murderer

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Frankly I think that would be a good thing since he was a murderer.

And you've never backed up that point a single time.

 

[Archivist]

And you've never backed up that point a single time.

I was never asked to back it up. We already agreed that he murdered Servetus. Isn't that enough?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

I was never asked to back it up. We already agreed that he murdered Servetus. Isn't that enough?

No we didn't agree that he "murdered" Servetus. While Calvin argued for his death in his letter written to William Farel on August 20, 1553 [I should note that Luther and Melanchthon also called for his execution], it was ultimately the strongly anti-Calvinist Libertine party (who argued that Servetus should be burned at the stake rather than beheaded, as Calvin desired) under the guise of Geneva's Council of 25 that sentenced Servetus to death on October 24, 1553. John Calvin had no civil authority and was not a judge in Geneva, and thus, had no power of Servetus' execution, regardless of whether or not he desired it.

It was ultimately Ami Perrin [a Libertine and the chief opponent of Calvinism within the city of Geneva] who killed Servetus.

If we're going to blame John Calvin for his murder, we must also blame Luther and Melanchthon.

 

[Archivist]

No we didn't agree that he "murdered" Servetus. While Calvin argued for his death in his letter written to William Farel on August 20, 1553 [I should note that Luther and Melanchthon also called for his execution], it was ultimately the strongly anti-Calvinist Libertine party (who argued that Servetus should be burned at the stake rather than beheaded, as Calvin desired) under the guise of Geneva's Council of 25 that sentenced Servetus to death on October 24, 1553. John Calvin had no civil authority and was not a judge in Geneva, and thus, had no power of Servetus' execution, regardless of whether or not he desired it.

It was ultimately Ami Perrin [a Libertine and the chief opponent of Calvinism within the city of Geneva] who killed Servetus.

If we're going to blame John Calvin for his murder, we must also blame Luther and Melanchthon.

And I don't have a problem with that. As I said earlier, I do not hold Luther out to be some great role model.

 

[A Catholic Friend]

If a friend found out that you were a nudist and they weren't a nudist but ok with it and they asked you questions would you be open and honest about it? How much about nudism would you share with them?