Christian morals

Catherineanne said:

If we truly allowed the Spirit to rule our hearts and minds to the same extent as it did in Christ himself, no doubt we could be infallible. However, that is not possible, because we remain human and therefore prone to making mistakes, and even to sinning.

It is not necessarily a sin to walk naked in public; that would depend on where you were and why you were doing it. But certainly the Holy Spirit is part of the reason why most Christians will try to reflect their faith in the way they dress and behave. No Christian can ever claim to be infallible all of the time, however. Most of us might have flashes of being right some of the time, but nowhere near as right as Christ himself was.

The Holy Spirit does not take away free will.

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Catherineanne said:

It is meaningless to ask any Christian to talk about morality, without us also being able to comment on what morality is, and what it is not.

You have evaded my point several times, so here it is again; Christians cannot achieve their own salvation by being moral. This is what is regarded as works theology, because our salvation is not by work of man, but by work of God.

Therefore, morality is a product of our salvation, not the agent/cause/reason for it.

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Catherineanne said:

You have a habit of making very negative comments about what you do not understand. Can you ask questions without the snide remarks, do you think?

It was a very common practice for the early church for people to delay baptism until late in life, because they believed that after baptism it was important never to sin. If they did happen to sin, they thought that their salvation would be lost, and because nobody can be re-baptised, they would be damned. The problem was, of course, if they died suddenly without being baptised, that was just as bad.

The church eventually realised that we can repent of sin, even after baptism, and that our salvation is not lost. Because of this, far more people were happy to be baptised into the faith at an earlier stage.

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drich0150 said:

So you are saying for one to have accepted "morals" one must exhibit works. rather one must implement the morals they are claiming?

So back to my original comment, Morals= works.

Now back to scripture: No amount of works/morals will ever be sufficient for one to earn their way into heaven.

This means if morality is indeed man's effort/religious effort to implement God's written or perceived will, then Religion/morals (Man's effort) is not needed for salvation.

Do you want to know why?

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drich0150 said:

Now back to scripture: No amount of works/morals will ever be sufficient for one to earn their way into heaven.

This means if morality is indeed man's effort/religious effort to implement God's written or perceived will, then Religion/morals (Man's effort) is not needed for salvation.

Do you want to know why?

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Catherineanne said:

None of us will be perfect until the day we stand before the Lord in eternity. Until then we are works in progress.

The Holy Spirit works with each of us, convicting us of sin and leading us in the right path. He may be working on me to teach me one thing, and with my brother to teach him something else. It is not for me to deride my brother for being less holy than I am in one area of life, because the chances are he is far more holy on a hundred other issues.

Therefore, the only valid concern for me is whether I am right before the Lord or not. I am not concerned to find sin in anyone else.

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Catherineanne said:

It was not a false doctrine. It was the early Christians being overly careful, because they did not want to dishonour their own baptism.

The doctrine was that there is only one baptism. This remains true today for pretty well all Christian denominations, and is included in the Nicene Creed. In my church (and many others) the whole congregation affirms (by reciting) this creed in every single service.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

English versions of the Nicene Creed in current use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Catherineanne said:

I think if you swap the phrase 'working our way to God' for the single word 'work', you may see what is meant.

Man cannot work his way to God. God has to reach towards us.

If we attempt by any behaviour to work our way to God, we will fail, because it simply cannot be done. In that context avoiding illicit sex is a work; it is attempting to reach God by being good. This cannot be done, because the very best of our good is still far short of God's own goodness.

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