Christian morals

[Mahammad]

Because we are all at a different stage of our journey of faith. A new Christian will have particular challenges that will be very different from those of a Christian who has been following the Lord all his life. I cannot see how anyone can follow the Lord and be without any morals, however. That seems rather unlikely.

What happens to someone who lived a sinful life until their death without repenting or finishing their stage/journey of faith?

It is not for any of us to criticise anyone else's journey. Most of us have far too much to do in sorting out our own sins, to have the time to worry about other people's.

Isn't that work?

 

[Catherineanne]

What happens to someone who lived a sinful life until their death without repenting or finishing their stage/journey of faith?

I don't know. I hope for God's mercy on them.

Isn't that work?

Good question.

If we try to do it on our own, yes. If we accept that we cannot do it on our own, and ask for the Grace of God to help, then no.

Anything that any Christian does on their own will fail and be meaningless. We must always allow God to work through us, and accept that if we pray, it is because God leads us to pray, if we do good, it is because God leads us to do good. In other words, any morality is nothing to do with me, and everything to do with God working through me. The immorality is mine, the morality is a gift from God.

This is why we can't share the Moslem belief about the good and bad angels, and the weighing of deeds. My good deeds are not mine; they belong to God. All I have that is mine are my sins. This is why it is important for a Christian to repent of sin, and to offer all unworthy acts in penitence before God. He then takes them from us, so that all that remains is his Grace.

 

[Mahammad]

]
Good question.

If we try to do it on our own, yes. If we accept that we cannot do it on our own, and ask for the Grace of God to help, then no.

What happened to freewill? It seems everything leads to "God's plan" If God planned hell for me and I died I'll confront him with that!

Anything that any Christian does on their own will fail and be meaningless. We must always allow God to work through us, and accept that if we pray, it is because God leads us to pray, if we do good, it is because God leads us to do good. In other words, any morality is nothing to do with me, and everything to do with God working through me. The immorality is mine, the morality is a gift from God.

If we infidels go to hell, because God leads us to hell.

This is why we can't share the Moslem belief about the good and bad angels, and the weighing of deeds. My good deeds are not mine; they belong to God.

My bad sins aren't mine, they belong to God as well.

All I have that is mine are my sins.

If God is the one who leads and has a plan for us, it's his sins as well.

This is why it is important for a Christian to repent of sin

What if God didn't offer me help and didn't make me repent? Not my fault.

 

[drich0150]

Why?

Because no matter how "moral" we think we are we still can not meet the minimum requirements that God demands of us. Your judgment will not consist of a set of big scales where God weighs the Good against the Bad. One bad deed, one Sin is enough to earn us Hell, no matter what Good we think we have done. This is why we can not earn salvation through religion or morality. Salvation is a gift. one we must accept through/in love.

Let's say a poor man loves a woman more than any man has before. He can not buy her nice things, but he still finds away to give all that he has from is heart. If one where to catalog his "works" the list might look something like:
hand picked wild flowers from the side of the road,
1/2 of his sandwich
a re-purposed greeting card with the mother's day message scratched out with a new message written inside.
an engagement ring from a gum ball machine.

For a woman looking for true love these items, these "works" mean the world to her. Not because of their intrinsic value, but because of the reason these gifts were given.

Now take these same gifts/works and attached to someone simply looking for a pass or a good time. what do you think they will mean to the woman looking for true love?

Do you think the acceptance or denial is in the gift/work, or the gift giver/ worker's intention? would you accept a shotty gift from someone looking to use you or take advantage of you?

Would you accept the same exact gift from some one who loves you with all that they have, but simply can not give anymore than what they are presenting?

Let's say you commissioned a professional artist and advanced Him thousands of dollars to do a portrait of you and your family in front of your house. let's say he comes to you with his finished work and says he went way over budget and needs several thousand dollars more for his finished work. When you see the work, you note a series multi colored crayola stick figures on a few paper plates with a Popsicle stick boarder. Would you give him the money he asked for. Why not? Now take that very same artwork and let it be by your son's hand. Now ask yourself what wouldn't you give him? I'd almost be willing to bet if he needed a heart to live your's would be available..

It's not just what you do that God looks at and judges, it why.

This is why Christ said all of the law and commandments of the prophets can be summed up with this: Love the Lord God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit and Strength. Then Love your neighbor as yourself.

We can not earn our way into heaven because nothing we can do is worthy of Heaven. We are Saved through faith not of works so no man can boast. However we do works because we love God with all of our being. With a love like that we can't, NOT show it. Just like the poor man will find a way to express his love, we being poor in spirit also will find away to show our love.. Just do not be so proud to think your wild flowers or gum ball machine ring earns you the right to salvation.

 

[bling]

Are these christ like people infallible?

True Christians can sin, but only by quenching the indwelling Holy Spirit first and doing stuff on your own. It is easy to quench the Spirit since we still have free will and strong egos. BUT you do not have to quench the Spirit and while you’re allowing the indwelling Spirit to be active in what you are doing you really cannot sin since the Spirit cannot sin. Christ is our example of deity dwelling inside a human and not sinning. If you do sin you can be immediately forgiven if that is what you want (it is always up to you to accept God’s Love). Sin is not a “problem” for the true Christian and his sins become part of his witness of the change Christ has made in his life.

 

[Catherineanne]

What happened to freewill? It seems everything leads to "God's plan" If God planned hell for me and I died I'll confront him with that!

God can make all things work for good, but this does not mean that all things that happen are good. Far from it.

If we infidels go to hell, because God leads us to hell.

No, it is because you choose not to follow the very clear commandments of Moses and the prophets, and the very clear example of Christ. However, I do not believe in a literal hellfire; it is not a mainstram Anglican belief any more.

My bad sins aren't mine, they belong to God as well.

This is blasphemy. Evil does not derive from God, but from an absence of God. You might compare it with light and darkness. Even a small light can illuminate the darkest of places, and drive the darkness away. You cannot have light and darkness in the same space. But you also cannot say the darkness derives from the light. It derives from an absence of light. The same is true of evil. It derives from an absence of God.

The natural world is not evil, even where death occurs, because there is no moral responsibility. A tiger which eats a deer is not evil; it is just being a tiger and doesn't know any better. It is only where the moral knowledge exists, where people understand what good and bad are, and choose bad, that evil can enter the world. We know the difference, and we choose to reject God's will, and in making that choice, we bring evil into existence in that place and at that time. Without man, there would be no evil.

If God is the one who leads and has a plan for us, it's his sins as well.

No, if we follow God then he does not lead us to sin. The sin is purely optional, and we choose it in spite of God, not because of him.

What if God didn't offer me help and didn't make me repent? Not my fault.

God will always offer us help. We do not always accept it. I think you might find the story of Adam and Eve useful. They knew what God wanted, but chose not to do it. That is the pattern for sin; disobedience of God's will. In the great scheme of things, eating a single piece of fruit is no big deal. But in relation to God, even a small sin is sufficient to separate us from him, and we cannot find our way back without his Grace.

 

[Catherineanne]

True Christians can sin, but only by quenching the indwelling Holy Spirit first and doing stuff on your own. It is easy to quench the Spirit since we still have free will and strong egos. BUT you do not have to quench the Spirit and while you’re allowing the indwelling Spirit to be active in what you are doing you really cannot sin since the Spirit cannot sin. Christ is our example of deity dwelling inside a human and not sinning. If you do sin you can be immediately forgiven if that is what you want (it is always up to you to accept God’s Love). Sin is not a “problem” for the true Christian and his sins become part of his witness of the change Christ has made in his life.

This is true. Christians can and do sin, but their life ought to be one of constantly resisting sin, and pulling it up by the roots wherever it occurs.

We have to constantly return to God, repent, ask his will, and then follow it. Only by doing this can we hope to progress in our Christian life.

Christian saints are not those who have won some kind of great moral victory, and are capable of living without sin for years and years; quite the opposite. They are those who realise quite how steeped in sin they are, and that they cannot escape from it, however hard they try. They submit fully to God and his will, wherever it leads, because they are sinful, not because they are holy.

 

[razeontherock]

Isn't that what hypocrites do? Reminds me of pharoah who repented in the sea.

Responding to post #113:

No, that didn't make Constantine a hypocrite in the least. This was something that was taught at the time, and many followed that practice. It also happens to be wrong.

 

[razeontherock]

Sometimes if they are good believers. For example would a good Christian ignore helping a falling elder on the ground because he has accepted christ as his Savior and works is not important to him?

This is your post #118 and needs to be re-thought as it makes no sense, especially in the context you wrote it.

 

[razeontherock]

What about the millions who do not reflect their faith with the way they dress and behave? Are these false Christians? Or is the holy spirit not working for them?

This is a judgmental attitude, which is THE fastest way to get on G-d's bad side

You don't know what a person's heart is, by looking at how they dress.

 

[razeontherock]

Christians nowadays say "Jesus died for our sins and fulfilled the laws because nobody else can follow all the laws, and this is what his disciples and their followers believed", oh yes I forgot, the early Chruch fought all the heretics, but now you are telling me that the early church had also a false doctrine, hmmmmmm.

It seems it wasn't me miss understanding, it was me being misinformed.

This is a poorly disguised attempt to avoid personal responsibility.

 

[razeontherock]

While C responded to this already, I think it's SO important I'll do so as well:

What happened to freewill? It seems everything leads to "God's plan"

If you USE your freewill to seek and follow G-d's will, with great determination, against every obstacle including your own nature, you will fit into G-d's plan in a way that benefits you greatly. Even then it is only by His Grace

This is perhaps a concise summary of Christian morality.

If we infidels go to hell, because God leads us to hell.

Wrong:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

My bad sins aren't mine, they belong to God as well.

Again, you are attempting to avoid personal responsibility. This is exactly what BOTH Adam and Eve did. How did that work out for them? That is THE primary point of the story! So what makes you think this tactic will work any better for you?

If God is the one who leads and has a plan for us, it's his sins as well.

NOPE:

"God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

What if God didn't offer me help and didn't make me repent? Not my fault.

Your choice of this bolded word is also an attempt to shirk personal responsibility. G-d doesn't MAKE us do anything. Free will and responsibility go together!

 

[LutheranChick]

Anything can create faith, a near-death experience can create faith. Does that mean near-death experiences can save?

No, 'anything' cannot create faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Only the Word of God creates this faith. If someone had a near-death experience and suddenly believed in Jesus' salvation- it would not have been the experience that created the faith, but rather, the Word of God that this person had already heard, at some point in time.

So no, 'near-death experiences' cannot save anyone. Only faith in Jesus Christ saves.

 

[razeontherock]

Or another way of putting it: the Faith we're talking about, is the gift of G-d.

We get it no other way.

 

[LutheranChick]

Or another way of putting it: the Faith we're talking about, is the gift of G-d.

We get it no other way.

Yes, exactly.

 

[bling]

This is true. Christians can and do sin, but their life ought to be one of constantly resisting sin, and pulling it up by the roots wherever it occurs.

We have to constantly return to God, repent, ask his will, and then follow it. Only by doing this can we hope to progress in our Christian life.

Christian saints are not those who have won some kind of great moral victory, and are capable of living without sin for years and years; quite the opposite. They are those who realise quite how steeped in sin they are, and that they cannot escape from it, however hard they try. They submit fully to God and his will, wherever it leads, because they are sinful, not because they are holy.

I said they can sin, but do not have to.

You make it sound like we are in a losing battle with sin. You might be going about it wrong?

I worked with Christian prisoners that at conversion gave up their hidden weapons, gave up their protection found in the gangs they were in, gave up all their earth possessions to their former gang and were now vulnerable to being beaten to death by their former gang or other gangs they had fought in the past looking for pay back. The only thing they had going for themselves was the fact they were totally committed and would have to be killed before submitting. These gangs were looking for slaves (some sexual slaves) for the gang and not killing a person (that had not value to them). The first few days had some beatings, but the other Christians stepped between them to take the blows and the gangs did not want to kill them and new they might. They let the snoops and snitchers watch them 24/7 looking for the first sign of weakness so they could say that is not Christian and so you’re not committed and would attack him then. Those professional lies could tell when you lied and some would just surprise a Christian by asking what he was thinking and he could not lie. There was no “arguing” about what was or was not sin, but what the snitches had heard about Christ determined what they thought was sin and these new young Christians were at their mercy.

Those Christian prisoners did not go anywhere without other Christians, prayed every chance, studied like med students for a test, witnessed to everyone, protected those that were weak often risking life and limb and everything they had was given or shared with others. They could not afford to hint of sinning and others joined them, because of their unbelievable commitment. I do not know how long some of them went without sinning.

Sin is not the problem. Sin has purpose, but that purpose is no longer needed for the Christian.

The way to keep from sinning is to not have time to sin. We are on the offence (the gates of hell do not attack us). The indwelling Holy Spirit does not take your free will away from you, but is there as a partner to enable you to do what you really want to do, so do that and He is with you.

If you try to defend yourself against sin you loss, but if you try to do good stuff, the Spirit works with you and nothing can stop you. You can keep doing good stuff and not have time to sin. That seems to be the way it works and the way my prison friends taught me. Plan more good than you can do and you will be surprised at how much the Lord can do through you. Don’t worry about sin, but how you can be doing the next good thing.