Christian Homophobia

[EnemyPartyII]

He said, if you love me follow my commandments. That encompasses everything, I think!

You might like to read the commandments, they don't mention homosexuality

 

[Melethiel]

The personal attacks will stop. Now. This goes for everyone.

 

[Jase]

The Book of Isaiah is nearly identical to that found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, so in the 2,000 years which would have been most inclined to mis-copy the book, it has NOT changed. Does that not allow us to trust that God has protected it? I think so!

Why? The Illiad is pretty impressive in terms of copying accuracy too. Does that mean the Greek gods exist?

 

[Dave01]

I'm going to leave it at this because the mods are getting somewhat upset on how this thread is going,..

9 ¶ (LIT) Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,

10 (LIT) nor thieves, nor covetous ones, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor plunderers shall inherit the kingdom of God.

That is in our bible. Look up the word in the greek and you will find that it correctly translates over to homosexual. There is nothing here to leave one not understanding the context.

The mods can erase this if they like, but the greek is exact on it.

Good day.

 

[sunlover1]

Why? The Illiad is pretty impressive in terms of copying accuracy too. Does that mean the Greek gods exist?

You cannot compare Homor to God.
Well, I guess you can if you like, but there's no comparison.
One is an epic, the other is Holy Scripture.
Besides, we don't know how accurate the Illiad was passed down by word of mouth.

FWIW
sunlover

 

[MercyBurst]

I think it's really sad how homophobic many Christians are. Whether or not you believe that the practise is right or not, why must many Christians treat them like their less of people, and call them such derogatory names and such? I think that Jesus would treat them the same as any other sinner (which is everybody), and so should we.

I also find it weird that when people are seen doing other things that are sinful, they go unnoticed, but when attention is drawn to the fact that someone is gay, people seem to go out of their way to say rude things about them, more so then any other "type" of sinner.

Bibliophobic gays are the saddest people I know of.

 

[MercyBurst]

You might like to read the commandments, they don't mention homosexuality

Lev 20:13 "detestable"

 

[Jase]

You cannot compare Homor to God.
Well, I guess you can if you like, but there's no comparison.
One is an epic, the other is Holy Scripture.
Besides, we don't know how accurate the Illiad was passed down by word of mouth.

FWIW
sunlover

Genesis was passed down by word of mouth too. Oral tradition was far more common back then, then written.

And to the Greeks, the Illiad was their holy scripture. Just because you view the Bible as scripture and not the Iliad, doesn't mean the Greeks agree with you. What makes you right, and not the greeks?

 

[MercyBurst]

Just wanted to put this out there.

I truly do not think certain parts of the Bible can be interpreted like they have been in this topic. Truthfully, the Bible was most likely written by a group of men from the time period - one which included a stifling amount of hate. Refer to other parts of the Bible - there are numerous references to colored people being used as slaves, and such. I also seriously doubt you all follow every rule in the Bible - so why pick-and-choose? What gives one the authority to decide which parts of the Book they will follow?

Have you trimmed the hair around your temples lately?

Worked on the Sabbath?

Wear clothes made of two separate types of thread?



These are all offenses, according to Leviticus. Offenses punishable by death.

Not quite -- disregarding the sabbath was the only capital offense under the OT:


According to the Old Testament of Bible, these are the offenses which may have merited the death penalty for those living under the Jewish covenant and the Mosaic law.

1. Murder (Exodus 21:12, Exodus 21:15)
2. Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
3. Disobedience to parents (Exodus 21:17, Deuteronomy 21:18)
4. Juvenile delinquency - incorrigibility (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
5. Bestiality (Leviticus 20:15)
6. Violations of the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15)
7. Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
8. Abominations (Leviticus 20:2)
9. Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16)
10. Incest (Leviticus 20:11)
11. Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13)
12. Witchcraft (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)
13. False prophecy (Deuteronomy 13:5)
14. Worshipping a false god (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
15. Sacrificing to false gods (Exodus 22:20)
16. Sodomy (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13)
17. Sex with a woman betrothed to another (Deuteronomy 22:25)
18. False witness in a capital crime (Deuteronomy 19:16-20)
19. Fornication by daughters of priests (Leviticus 21:9)
20. Failure to abide by a decision of the High Court (Deuteronomy 17:12)
21. Unchastity (Deuteronomy 22:21-24)
22. Cursing someone (Leviticus 24:14)
23. Negligence resulting in death (Exodus 21:29)

These are all also evidence that the Bible is outdated, a relic from the past. It offers truly revolutionary advice in certain sections. It documents the times wonderfully. And it gives us a material representation of God.

Unfortunately, some people, often called fundamentalists, overly interpret the Bible. And give a bad name to Christianity.

And Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

so why pick-and-choose? What gives one the authority to decide which parts of the Book they will follow?

What gives anyone the authority to limit God's grace? Why pick and choose which part of the law Jesus did not die for? The law includes Lev 20:13.

 

[MezzaMorta]

According to the Old Testament of Bible, these are the offenses which may have merited the death penalty for those living under the Jewish covenant and the Mosaic law.

1. Murder (Exodus 21:12, Exodus 21:15)
2. Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
3. Disobedience to parents (Exodus 21:17, Deuteronomy 21:18)
4. Juvenile delinquency - incorrigibility (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
5. Bestiality (Leviticus 20:15)
6. Violations of the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15)
7. Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
8. Abominations (Leviticus 20:2)
9. Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16)
10. Incest (Leviticus 20:11)
11. Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13)
12. Witchcraft (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)
13. False prophecy (Deuteronomy 13:5)
14. Worshipping a false god (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
15. Sacrificing to false gods (Exodus 22:20)
16. Sodomy (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13)
17. Sex with a woman betrothed to another (Deuteronomy 22:25)
18. False witness in a capital crime (Deuteronomy 19:16-20)
19. Fornication by daughters of priests (Leviticus 21:9)
20. Failure to abide by a decision of the High Court (Deuteronomy 17:12)
21. Unchastity (Deuteronomy 22:21-24)
22. Cursing someone (Leviticus 24:14)
23. Negligence resulting in death (Exodus 21:29)

Damn, Good thing we don't live under Mosaic law or I'd be put to death a good 11 times over.

 

[sunlover1]

Genesis was passed down by word of mouth too. Oral tradition was far more common back then, then written.

And to the Greeks, the Illiad was their holy scripture. Just because you view the Bible as scripture and not the Iliad, doesn't mean the Greeks agree with you. What makes you right, and not the greeks?

Oh, I'm sorry, I just assumed that you exalted the Word of God.

Disregard my post,
sunlover

 

[UberLutheran]

Bibliophobic gays are the saddest people I know of.

Really? In what way?

Because some of us don't read the Bible literally?

Because some of us don't believe in a literal, six-day creation; or that a literal Adam and Eve just magically "appeared"?

Or that we don't believe that a 480-foot ziggurat fell somewhere in Mesopotamia and that's supposed the reason for the all the languages in the world?

Or we don't believe that water covered the earth to an altitude of 29,070 feet?

Did it ever occur to fundies that if there was enough moisture content in the atmosphere to condense to produce FIVE MILES of water, that the pressure of that atmospheric water would have crushed every living thing even before the Flood ever started?

Did it ever occur to fundies that if water rose to a depth of 29,070 feet, the top two and a half miles would have been solid ice and would never have melted?

You know what I think is sad? Fundies who leave their common sense, their ability to reason, their ability to distinguish between literal fact and metaphor on the the hat rack by the door and assume that since something is in the Bible, it has to be 100 percent, absolutely, infallibly, inerrantly, literally true -- and who insist that everybody MUST believe just as they do or those people are "not Christian".

Sad, sad, SAD.

 

[MercyBurst]

Damn, Good thing we don't live under Mosaic law or I'd be put to death a good 11 times over.

Isn't it great that God's grace covers ALL of it?

 

[MezzaMorta]

Isn't it great that God's grace covers ALL of it?

I was going to say the secular nature of our state and a justice system based on personal liberty. But sure, that too.

 

[UberLutheran]

Aids for one. Two- A tendency to involve minors.
Before I was 16 years of age I had been propositioned 4-5 times by different middleaged homosexuals. Fortunately in a public place each time. I know a few who were forced. The long-term ramifications of those acts are pretty bad. Usually worse then a heterosexual rape.

Sort of like -- the attempted homosexual rape of the two visitors in Sodom?

Of course, "righteous" Lot saved the day -- he offered the men of Sodom his two daughters for them to rape.

I guess Lot's daughters had the last laugh, though. They got good old Dad drunk and Dad's children were also his grandchildren!

Kind of like an episode of Jerry Springer, huh? "Tomorrow on Springer: If I Divorce You, Will You Still Be My Dad?"

Never once got propositioned by an older woman looking to make my day.

Sounds like some women had standards as far as men were concerned!

Aids for one.

Then I'd say that God really has it in for hemophiliacs, since hemophiliacs have a 98 percent rate of HIV infection; but God must love lesbians since they have by far the lowest rate of HIV infection.

 

[MercyBurst]

I'm going to leave it at this because the mods are getting somewhat upset on how this thread is going,..



That is in our bible. Look up the word in the greek and you will find that it correctly translates over to homosexual. There is nothing here to leave one not understanding the context.

The mods can erase this if they like, but the greek is exact on it.

Good day.

It's SIN no matter what way you say it.

When somebody says Jesus didn't need to die for Lev 20:13, they are no different than a legalist that says God's grace doesn't cover part of the law.

 

[MercyBurst]

oops -- it looks like this thread fell from the apologetics forum into this pit.

uhh ... reading the usual bible-bashing -- I can see why..

 

[UberLutheran]

Lev 20:13 "detestable"

If any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings is eaten on the third day, it will not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed to him who offers it. It will be an abomination, and the soul who eats any of it will bear his iniquity. ‘The flesh that touches any unclean thing shall not be eaten. It shall be burned with fire. As for the flesh, everyone who isclean may eat it; 20 but the soul who eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that belongs to Yahweh, having his uncleanness on him, thatsoul shall be cut off from his people. 21 When anyone touches any unclean thing, the uncleanness of man, or an unclean animal, or any unclean abomination, and eats some ofthe flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which belong to Yahweh, that soul shall be cut off from his people.’”
(Leviticus 7:18-21)

11 1 Yahweh spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the living things which you may eat among all the animals that are on theearth. 3 Whatever parts the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and chews the cud among the animals, that you may eat.

4 “‘Nevertheless these you shall not eat of those that chew the cud, or of those who part the hoof: the camel, because he chewsthe cud but doesn’t have a parted hoof, he is unclean to you. 5 The coney, because he chews the cud but doesn’t have a parted hoof, he is unclean to you. 6 The hare, because she chews the cud but doesn’t part the hoof, she is unclean to you. 7 The pig, because he has a split hoof, and is cloven-footed, but doesn’t chew the cud, he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 “‘These you may eat of all that are in the waters: whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers,that you may eat. 10 All that don’t have fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of all the living creatures that are in the waters, they are an abomination to you, 11 and you detest them. You shall not eat of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. 12 Whatever has no fins nor scales in the waters, that is an abomination to you.

13 “‘These you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the vulture, andthe black vulture, 14 and the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, and the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe, and the bat.

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are an abomination to you. 21 Yet you may eat these: of all winged creeping things that go on all fours, which have legs above their feet, with which to hopon the earth. 22 Even of these you may eat: any kind of locust, any kind of katydid, any kind of cricket, and any kind of grasshopper. 23 But all winged creeping things which have four feet, are an abomination to you.

24 “‘By these you will become unclean: whoever touches the carcass of them shall be unclean until the evening. 25 Whoever carries any part of their carcass shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening.

26 “‘Every animal which parts the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, nor chews the cud, is unclean to you. Everyone who touches themshall be unclean. 27 Whatever goes on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, they are unclean to you. Whoever touches their carcass shall beunclean until the evening. 28 He who carries their carcass shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. They are unclean to you.

29 “‘These are they which are unclean to you among the creeping things that creep on the earth: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, and the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink, and the chameleon. 31 These are they which are unclean to you among all that creep. Whoever touches them when they are dead, shall be unclean until the evening. 32 On whatever any of them falls when they are dead, it shall be unclean; whether it is any vessel of wood, or clothing, or skin, orsack, whatever vessel it is, with which any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the evening; then itwill be clean. 33 Every earthen vessel, into which any of them falls, all that is in it shall be unclean, and you shall break it. 34 All food which may be eaten, that on which water comes, shall be unclean; and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean. 35 Everything whereupon part of their carcass falls shall be unclean; whether oven, or range for pots, it shall be broken in pieces:they are unclean, and shall be unclean to you. 36 Nevertheless a spring or a cistern in which water is a gathered shall be clean: but that which touches their carcass shall beunclean. 37 If part of their carcass falls on any sowing seed which is to be sown, it is clean. 38 But if water is put on the seed, and part of their carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you.

39 “‘If any animal, of which you may eat, dies; he who touches its carcass shall be unclean until the evening. 40 He who eats of its carcass shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. He also who carries its carcass shall wash hisclothes, and be unclean until the evening.

41 “‘Every creeping thing that creeps on the earth is an abomination. It shall not be eaten. 42 Whatever goes on its belly, and whatever goes on all fours, or whatever has many feet, even all creeping things that creep on theearth, them you shall not eat; for they are an abomination. 43 You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creeps, neither shall you make yourselves unclean with them, that you should be defiled thereby. 44 For I am Yahweh your God. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am holy: neither shall you defile yourselveswith any kind of creeping thing that moves on the earth. 45 For I am Yahweh who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
(Leviticus 11)

“‘When you offer a sacrifice of peace offerings to Yahweh, you shall offer it so that you may be accepted. 6 It shall be eaten the same day you offer it, and on the next day: and if anything remains until the third day, it shall be burned with fire. 7 If it is eaten at all on the third day, it is an abomination. It will not be accepted; 8 but everyone who eats it shall bear his iniquity, because he has profaned the holy thing of Yahweh, and that soul shall be cut off from his people.

No "abominations" here, but if you think it's OK to get rich at the expense of the poor, you might do well to read this:

9 “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 You shall not glean your vineyard, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and for the foreigner. I am Yahweh your God.

11 “‘You shall not steal.
“‘You shall not lie.
“‘You shall not deceive one another.
12 “‘You shall not swear by my name falsely, and profane the name of your God. I am Yahweh.
13 “‘You shall not oppress your neighbor, nor rob him.
“‘The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.
14 “‘You shall not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling block before the blind; but you shall fear your God. I am Yahweh.
15 “‘You shall do no injustice in judgment: you shall not be partial to the poor, nor show favoritism to the great; but you shall judge your neighbor in righteousness.
16 “‘You shall not go up and down as a slanderer among your people.
“‘You shall not endanger the life of your neighbor. I am Yahweh.
17 “‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.
18 “‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people; but you shall love your neighbor asyourself. I am Yahweh.
19 “‘You shall keep my statutes.
“‘You shall not crossbreed different kinds of animals.
“‘you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed;
“‘neither shall there come upon on you a garment made of two kinds of material.

You shall burn the engraved images of their gods with fire. You shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, nor take it for yourself, lest you be snared in it; for it is an abomination to Yahweh your God.
(Deuteronomy 7:25)

(You know, like all that art the U.S. looted from the Iraqi museums at the beginning of the Iraqi War.)

If there be found in the midst of you, within any of your gates which Yahweh your God gives you, man or woman, who does that which is evil in the sight of Yahweh your God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 and has gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, or the sun, or the moon, or any of the army of the sky, which I have not commanded; 4 and it be told you, and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire diligently; and behold, if it be true, and the thing certain,that such abomination is done in Israel, 5 then you shall bring forth that man or that woman, who has done this evil thing, to your gates, even the man or the woman; and you shall stone them to death with stones. 6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall notbe put to death. 7 The hand of the witnesses shall be first on him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall put away the evil from the midst of you. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

18 You shall not bring the hire of a prostitute, or the wages of a dog, into the house of Yahweh your God for any vow: for even both these are an abomination to Yahweh your God. 19 You shall not lend on interest to your brother; interest of money, interest of food, interest of anything that is lent on interest: 20 to a foreigner you may lend on interest; but to your brother you shall not lend on interest, that Yahweh your God may bless you inall that you put your hand to, in the land where you go in to possess it. (Deuteronomy 23:18-20 -- sorry, I guess that means no interest on loans!)

You shall not have in your bag diverse weights, a great and a small. 14 You shall not have in your house diverse measures, a great and a small. 15 You shall have a perfect and just weight. You shall have a perfect and just measure, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you. 16 For all who do such things, even all who do unrighteously, are an abomination to Yahweh your God. (Deuteronomy 25:13-16)

15 ‘Cursed is the man who makes an engraved or molten image, an abomination to Yahweh, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ All the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’ 16 ‘Cursed is he who sets light by his father or his mother.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 17 ‘Cursed is he who removes his neighbor’s landmark.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 18 is he who makes the blind to wander out of the way.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 19 ‘Cursed is he who wrests the justice due to the foreigner, fatherless, and widow.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 20 ‘Cursed is he who lies with his father’s wife, because he has uncovered his father’s skirt.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 21 ‘Cursed is he who lies with any manner of animal.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 22 ‘Cursed is he who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.’ All the people shall say,‘Amen.’ 23 ‘Cursed is he who lies with his mother-in-law.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 24 ‘Cursed is he who strikes his neighbor in secret.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 25 ‘Cursed is he who takes a bribe to kill an innocent person.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ 26 ‘Cursed is he who doesn’t confirm the words of this law to do them.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’” (Deuteronomy 27:15-26)

MercyBurst: since you believe that Jesus Christ died for the Law, so that we can obtain righteousness through Him by obeying the Law -- do you believe that Jesus Christ died for Leviticus 7, Leviticus 11, Leviticus 19, Leviticus 20, Deuteronomy 7, Deuteronomy 12, Deuteronomy 17, Deuteronomy 18, Deuteronomy 23, Deuteronomy 25, and Deuteronomy 27?

Actually -- if Jesus Christ died so that we can obtain righteousness by obeying the Law -- there wasn't much reason for Him to die anyway, was there?

And that's the point of the entire Letter to the Galatians, BTW. Read it, sometime.

 

[UberLutheran]

It's SIN no matter what way you say it.

When somebody says Jesus didn't need to die for Lev 20:13, they are no different than a legalist that says God's grace doesn't cover part of the law.

And how is that different from the legalist who says that Jesus died so that we can be justified by obeying the Law?

 

[Jase]

Oh, I'm sorry, I just assumed that you exalted the Word of God.

Disregard my post,
sunlover

I don't exalt a book.