Christian elves - (not directly role-play related)

[onikirimaru777]

Meh, that turtle is too much work, lol. And about the discernment, i really can't explain it...I just know. Ya know? *shrug*

 

[Lady_Firehawk]

I did a little bit of semi-serious musing on the subject.

My Journal

 

[Kelly]

I've been out of town and away from internet access but I was reading 2 Timothy this weekend and this stood out to me in terms of this discussion.

2 Timothy 4:1-5
And so I solemnly urge you before God and before Christ Jesus--who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths.
But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don't be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at bringing others to Christ. Complete the ministry God has given you.

 

[Erufailon]

A few thoughts

I just thought I'd jump back in to this discussion with a few little thoughts.

what caught my attention is that people more likely to Awaken were frequently involved in stuff like the occult, Wicca, other pagan stuff, tarot...

This is true. The way I see is that this just gives even more reason why Christian otherkin should be visible and active in sharing their faith in an otherwise hostile environment. There are reasons why otherkin are not generally attracted by the human expression of Christianity. A lot of the reasons overlap with the reasons why wicca is so sucessful at being attractive to young people. I don't think they're primarily theological issues, but rather they represent a huge problem in the Church of how to effectively communicate the Gospel in a way which is attractive to young people.

(Hint: It's important to show how faith interacts with all areas of life, it's not in a compartment for a special time and/or place. Also, emphasis on silence, meditative prayer, reflection, questioning, searching and simplicity of life will get you a lot more mileage and respect than rock bands and flamboyant preachers who fancy themselves as comedians.)

It's the whole reincarnation aspect I don't buy... for it is appointed unto men once to die, and then judgement.

No, I don't go along with the reincarnation thing either. A lot of otherkin seem to say "I remember being an elf in a previous life". I don't. I have no such memory, and what I talk about refers simply to the here and now. There are one or two "feelings" I have which I could imagine being descibed as memories, but I don't think that's what they are. Rather I think of them as being a glimpse, or longing, for the way things should have been, or should be.

The theory of being an otherkin must be taken very lightly [...] .

Agreed.

Looking back further at these discussions of "astral planes" or levels of heaven or hell. I'm afraid I can't really go along with any of that, on the basis of a complete lack of evidence. All I will say is that there is an existance of things outside our physical experience, but the very nature of them makes it impossible for us to understand. We currently live in four dimensional space. One of those dimensions (time) proceeds linearly in one direction beyond our control. These are charactaristics only of our physical existance on earth, and are not constraints when we look at life beyond death, or concepts of Heaven or hell. Also I believe that God is not bound by these constraints - as he made them he ultimately is more powerful, and exists beyond them.

So my thinking is that there could be other "dimensions", but we can't really know about them, beyond the occasional influence on the ones which are observable to us. As such it is futile to speculate about them, and concepts such as "astral plane" are merely a flawed human over-simplification of what is beyond our knowledge, based merely on the occasional incidents where there is influence from these other dimersions.

<geek mode>For the maths / engineering geeks out there, I think of it like complex numbers, which consist of a "real" and an "imaginary" part. (the imaginary part being a multiple of i (or j for engineers), where i equals the square root of minus one. Now what we see in this world is only the "real" part of that number. For most purposes it is as if that is all that exists. We can add and subtract complex numbers, and the observation of only the "real" part shows nothing unexpected. However the interesting stuff happens when we multiply ... we cross-multiply the components, and imaginary times imaginary becomes real (and negative), whereas real times imaginary becomes imaginary. This is like the points where unobservable dimensions have a visible effect in the observed ones. It's my understanding of what humans tend to call "supernatural". However by nature of these limited observations it's impossible to tell the unobservable mechanisms behind it.</geek mode>

Anyway, my point was just that we can't know about these things, and we don't need to. And my opinion is that talk of a specific, named "astral" plane or such things is futile and far from accurate.

-----

At this point I must leave the discussion as at the weekend I'll be heading off into the forest for a blissful month without internet, phone, running water, etc. (such luxury it almost feels sinful - LOL!) I'll be back online for a few days in the middle of August, so I might drop by them and see how things have developed.

- Erufailon.

 

[VigilanteHamster]

<geek mode>For the maths / engineering geeks out there, I think of it like complex numbers, which consist of a "real" and an "imaginary" part. (the imaginary part being a multiple of i (or j for engineers), where i equals the square root of minus one. Now what we see in this world is only the "real" part of that number. For most purposes it is as if that is all that exists. We can add and subtract complex numbers, and the observation of only the "real" part shows nothing unexpected. However the interesting stuff happens when we multiply ... we cross-multiply the components, and imaginary times imaginary becomes real (and negative), whereas real times imaginary becomes imaginary. This is like the points where unobservable dimensions have a visible effect in the observed ones. It's my understanding of what humans tend to call "supernatural". However by nature of these limited observations it's impossible to tell the unobservable mechanisms behind it.</geek mode>

Wow... I understood that! I remember working with imaginary numbers in Algebra II and Pre-Calc. Hehe... geeks are cool.

A month without technology?! I'd never survive! (Actually I probably would, I've just never tried... sounds fun!)

I'm not too sure what to say about Otherkin... I'm definitely not discounting the possibility, though!

 

[vlinder]

I am Otherkin too

To Life Immortal

Wow, I am glad to have found this thread. I google Christian otherkin and found this. I have been looking for Christians who are otherkin.

I am dragon and I have been trying to reconcile being a dragon with being Eastern Orthodox Christian. I have never really felt human and I have these weird feelings that I should have wings, tail and stuff. I belong to draconity and other dragon groups, but this is the first time I've met other Christian otherkin.

I would like to know what do you think is the bible view on us. How do you deal with being otherkin. Thank you

Peace and Long Life
** Vlinder **

 

[onikirimaru777]

Glad to have found another one out there I'll post more when I get back from my cruise.

 

[onikirimaru777]

The bible isn't very specific about the otherkin, so its a no news is good news kinda thing. God made the spirits that dwell in us, so our heritage is something to be proud of. We are made in His image, but His image takes on many different forms throughout Scriptures, so dont take anything from anybody saying that the otherkin don't exist. I think your referring to the account of Satan taking on the form of the Great Red Dragon in Revelations. It is my person belief that the dragon represents the strongest beast that has ever, and will ever, walk the earth. Why else would there be so many stories and such about them. Dragons represent power, and Satan will take the most powerful form he knows in efforts to defeat Michael, but he will fail. But, we dragons are not the dragons of the stories, in my opinion. We dragons dwell on the Astral. I personally don't see myself as a scaly being walking on all fours. I see myself as something like an angel, as well as a demon. Im talking about the stereotypical view of angels/demons. I think the dragons of the Astral are glorious beings with the bodies of the angels and with wings similar to bats (usually seen on demons in pictures). But do realize this view on dragons is based on the perfect dragon, the form God takes when ministering to our kind. In human for, God is perfect in Christ. But what about all the other forms He takes?

Dealing with my kin-ness has been alot easier then expected. Its turned from a whole new frontier of spirituality, to an accepted part of my life. Wondering why I never fit in for so many years and finally finding out why will always be an interesting thing, sometimes even hard to accept, seeing as it is so far from the "normal" teachings of anything. But, as time passed, life just became ritual. I was the dragon of the group, and the friends that I could trust always knew me as such. I feel like a dragon the most is when I start thinking/pondering on deep, spiritual things, as well as when I'm doing something in a group and I can never just fit into what they are doing. Like public dances. I went to a dance with my gf because, well, girls like dances. So I went because of her. I didn't really have a great time, but it was better because she was there. I just didn't click with the whole scene. There are times when all otherkin just don't click with normal humans, its natural.

Now, all those who say that the otherkin are merely people who aren't psychologically able to accept their position in society, let me just tell you that you are wrong. Alot of the otherkin are the wisest people I know and accept their place in society, a place of other people of their wisdom and open-mindedness. The reason some may see us as psychologically imbalanced will never understand our perspective. Why, because they fit in with humans. Psychologists have set and standerd for "normal" and anyone who doesn't fit into that has a "psychological problem". You will never understand our perspective, because you are human.

Hope the ramblings of a teenage dragon has helped you out in some way...

 

[Lady_Firehawk]

Hmmmm... I wonder how people would react to a thread like this posted in either Unorthodox or Liberal Theology... Nooooo, on second thought, that's one can of worms that should probably not be opened.

At any rate, I'm rather glad I've read this thread-- it's made me aware of a few things I otherwise never would be and led me to ask questions I otherwise wouldn't... and questioning is a way to greater faith, is it not? I don't think there are cut and dried answers for all things...

 

[onikirimaru777]

I don't think there are cut and dried answers for all things...

that is why God gave us a Mind, and the free will to use it...

 

[CJF]

I agree with Kelly 100%. Kelly has been hitting it right on.



I don't understand anything that has been said about the otherkin at all, so I'm not even going to try. I read your posts, tried to understand what you were saying and it didn't work. You've all explained it time and time again to others who have asked, and if I can't get it when you explained it earlier, I wont get it now. lol. But, I do still have one more thing to say because this thread has put a lot of questions in my mind.

Okay, let's just say for a minute that you're right and there is a such thing as the Awakened and the otherkin; why is it that big of a deal? It's not. If you're right, then some of us are elves, etc. and some of us aren't. Not too much to gain, not too much to loose. Maybe we can have a little fun, who knows? Being an elf would be cool.

Now let's say that you're wrong. In this case, it is a big deal. You all have clearly stated that you believe you(or your souls) are mythical creatures. You believe it. Which means it's apart of your life. When you believe in something it becomes a religion. So now we have Christians beliveing that some part of them is a mythical creature. Wow! That's huge and, please forgive, disturbing. I was told once to take the Bible litterally. If the Bible says that, with the faith of a mustard seed, I can move a mountain, I'll believe that if I have the faith of a mustard seed, I can move a mountain. So, the Bible says that God created man. Nowhere did he say that he created men with souls of elves, or dragons. So, I take it litterally.

Please forgive me if I offend you(I highly doubt my post will be read anyways) but I think all of this is going too far. I'm going to be straigh-forward: the enemy(Satan) comes to steal, kill and destroy. What I see here is the enemy stealing your common sense of understanding the scripture. Soon, he'll kill your spiritual eyes altogether, and you'll be destroyed. When you start believeing that your soul(or even you, physically) are a mythical creature, Satan can lodge his foot into you. He'll begin to put other thoughts in your mind. Basically, I say you're being decieved and you're not wiling to see it. I think that deep down, you know who you really are, but you like this figure better. Please realize that your wlking on dangerous ground.

 

[romancatholicdragon]

onikirimaru777 - your faq is wonderful - thank you for answering so many questions so well.

If I have offended anyone then I'm truely sorry. It is not my intention to stir up uncomfortable feelings. I can very much understand sceptical responses. I've been there.

Those who feel they are elven understand it in different ways. Some find it a conveient way to express their values, others believe more literally in elvish forebearers. I'll be honest and say I don't know exactly where I fit on that scale, and my understanding may vary. However I would say that being "elven" is far from incompatible with being a Christian.

Well in our faith we have to accept that God made people of a sexual
orientation ( all those priest abuse scandals) and then called them to
the priesthood.If God can do that
then accepting God making elves and dragons is no biggy

 

[romancatholicdragon]

I've been out of town and away from internet access but I was reading 2 Timothy this weekend and this stood out to me in terms of this discussion.

2 Timothy 4:1-5
And so I solemnly urge you before God and before Christ Jesus--who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths.
But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don't be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at bringing others to Christ. Complete the ministry God has given you.

What does the Good Book say about the possibility that God is remaking
people into new critters against their will?

Most serious players never wanted the ton of bricks that flattened them
to the ground when they " awakened"

General impression I have is it goes like this

You're a normal and happy christian

Some traumatic event occurs in your faith ( the ton of bricks)

You're flattened,confused dazed

Some christian kid will come along and tell you the ton of bricks don't exist

The christian kid needs new glasses

You get the vision/dream/logic process telling you you're part of a loving
family of non human entities.The newborn faith has got a ton of bricks
for the foundation

You're left wondering if you're one of the good guys or bad guys
and where God fits in all this

 

[romancatholicdragon]

I agree with Kelly 100%. Kelly has been hitting it right on.

Okay, let's just say for a minute that you're right and there is a such thing as the Awakened and the otherkin; why is it that big of a deal? It's not. If you're right, then some of us are elves, etc. and some of us aren't. Not too much to gain, not too much to loose. Maybe we can have a little fun, who knows? Being an elf would be cool.

That commentary would either get you a F on a Otherkin test or more likely
booted from the examination room.

Let use a metaphor to describe the situation.The various christian sects
are the Roman Emperor.According to most Otherkin the Emperor tossed
them into the arena with the lions.After a severe mauling they staggered
out grim faced ,dazed and bleeding.And the Emperor just said
" Maybe we can have a little fun,who knows?Being an elf would be cool."


I don't understand anything that has been said about the otherkin at all, so I'm not even going to try. I read your posts, tried to understand what you were saying and it didn't work. You've all explained it time and time again to others who have asked, and if I can't get it when you explained it earlier, I wont get it now. lol. But, I do still have one more thing to say because this thread has put a lot of questions in my mind.

Otherkin is just a theory to explain certain visions dreams and phemonena.
You,ve got the phenomena,the human psychology and the theories,of which the Otherkin theory is the current pop culture one.Just like all the
miracles ,visions and saintly things that happened over the last 2000 years
were explained in a christian context,the current batch of stuff( since WW2 I believe) gets explained with the Otherkin context.The serious
players are well aware that they might be loonies,but if its a choice between
spirituality or checking in the local lunatic asylum spirituality seems the better choice



Now let's say that you're wrong. In this case, it is a big deal. You all have clearly stated that you believe you(or your souls) are mythical creatures. You believe it. Which means it's apart of your life. When you believe in something it becomes a religion. So now we have Christians beliveing that some part of them is a mythical creature. Wow! That's huge and, please forgive, disturbing. I was told once to take the Bible litterally. If the Bible says that, with the faith of a mustard seed, I can move a mountain, I'll believe that if I have the faith of a mustard seed, I can move a mountain. So, the Bible says that God created man. Nowhere did he say that he created men with souls of elves, or dragons. So, I take it litterally.

And apparently the world was created around 4500 BC.I'd be giving
some leeway to the bible if I were you.


Please forgive me if I offend you(I highly doubt my post will be read anyways) but I think all of this is going too far. I'm going to be straigh-forward: the enemy(Satan) comes to steal, kill and destroy. What I see here is the enemy stealing your common sense of understanding the scripture. Soon, he'll kill your spiritual eyes altogether, and you'll be destroyed. When you start believeing that your soul(or even you, physically) are a mythical creature, Satan can lodge his foot into you. He'll begin to put other thoughts in your mind. Basically, I say you're being decieved and you're not wiling to see it. I think that deep down, you know who you really are, but you like this figure better. Please realize that your wlking on dangerous ground.

I'm sure that the older otherkin crowd,the 30/40/50 somethings have
enough experience to known when Satan is yanking their chains.

Most of the teens and twenty somethings have a innate sense of what is
right and wrong,possibly to a higher extent then amongst christian
teens and twentysomethings

There are some bad apple antisocial otherkin,probably being courted by
Satan but I suspect Hell will fill up with more christian clergymen
then antisocial goth otherkin.

rcd

 

[romancatholicdragon]

I haven't seen too much of that, Mega. Just remember that Jesus is the only way to heaven! Over analysis of heaven, hell and discussion of planes, dragons and such is fun but ultimately frivilous. We'll know the truth when we die or when Jesus returns.

I suspect if you do the statistics you'll find that the Father,the Holy Ghost
and the Blessed Virgin Mary are a bit more active then Jesus in getting people
to heaven,

Which then leads to the question about their involvement with
Otherkin.

Basically I'm draconically oriented because of someones involvement in
the BVM apparitions in Yugoslavia more than a decade ago,

So I suppose I can lay this one on the BVM indirectly.Essentially someones
faith went haywire and set in motion events no one could have
seen happening back then.

 

[romancatholicdragon]

I agree with Kelly 100%. Kelly has been hitting it right on.

I don't understand anything that has been said about the otherkin at all, so I'm not even going to try.

[QUOTE

Actually when it comes to the otherkin phenomena neither of you really grasp just what

you're staring at.You talk about how the faith of a mustard seed can move mountains,yet when raw faith in the making walked up and shook your hand,you didn't recognie it.

I've cooled off a little since yesterday,so I'll see if I can keep the anger down.

-this thread should never have been posted to a RPG in the first place.First

thing to do is chuck the notion that otherkin are RPG'g a wannabe character.

and will return to Jesus when the fun and games are over.

-chuck the words reincarnation,awakening,etc.Basically " otherkin " is

a generic term used to describe thousands of people who each have a

individual theory to describe the phenomena.Though the reincarnated

alien soul is the current popular theory,its not what unifies this diverse

group of people.

Unlike christians,who are more or less unified by the concept of

" Christ' ,there is no central theological figure binding the otherkin.Pull

Christ out of the christianity and see what happens as a billion or so people

create a billion or so new theological theories to explain the phenomena.

Just like christianity,the movement has its shysters,true believers and everything

in between.You'll have RPG'g teens and you'll have people who's faith could

easily hurl the Earth across the galaxy at warp speed.

The faith-usually a stressed person has a mystical experience with a ' we love you

mother/father spirit figure".Christians who go the stressed out>jesus loves you route

have a billion other believers,2000 years of tradition,stacks of Jewish tradition, and a massive

base of printed materials,holy relics and churches to back up their faith.

The reborn otherkin usually only has their raw faith in the mythical creature,no past

miracles,no massive support base to back up the faith.The otherkin faith is

probably closer to the real deal then the fat lazy kind practised by most christians.

So what we have here is a fully fueled otherkin Mack truck,just raring to go and with a

faulty imperfect Otherkin theory about Awakening and reincarnation.

The cab of this otherkin truck might be described as having the following situation

1) Jesus has moved over to the passenger side and a father/mother entity is behind the steering wheel

2) Jesus has put on a halloween mask and is sitting behind the steering wheel

3) the cab is empty

4) Satan is sitting behind the steering wheel

5) Neither Jesus or Satan is in the cab and someone else is sitting behind the steering wheel

6) No doubt other possibilities exist

So to some up

Otherkin have a raw unsupported faith far more deserving of respect than the kind most

christians exhibit.There is no unifying theological figure to explain the phenomena

such as memories,mystical experiences,dreams and visions of the grouping of otherkin.

Hence there is no theological theory to indicate who's sitting in the cab of the

truck,just that its fuelled and the motors running.

 

[Kelly]

I suspect if you do the statistics you'll find that the Father,the Holy Ghost
and the Blessed Virgin Mary are a bit more active then Jesus in getting people
to heaven,

The ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Wow, I can't beleive this discussion is still going on, btw.

I would suggest that any person who thinks they are a reincarnated entity of a fantasy being is under the influence of the devil and needs to get some good scriptural based, friendly counciling from a pastor.

I fear for anyone who's only connection with fellow christians is the internet.

 

[romancatholicdragon]

Okay, I don't want to offend anyone at all, but I am going to be very blunt. God did not make anyone a dragon or an elf or a farie. Most importantly, God did not make our souls those things. Where would you come up with something like that? Our souls are just that, our souls. No one has a dragon for a soul, or an elf for a soul. Sorry, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that. And, I'm sorry, but until you give me a scripture that says that God made our souls into fantasy creatures, you have nothing to argue with.

Our souls are eternal. Our souls are what goes to Heaven. Our souls are what Satan and Jesus are constantly fighting over. To go so far as to say that our souls are fantasy creatures is insaine. Sorry, I believe that my soul is my soul. It's not an elf, or a dragon or anything of the sort. My soul belongs to Christ.

Then we have to go back to Adam and Eve.Close as I recall she was made from the rib of a MAN.So whether she has the soul of a MAN or the soul of
a WOMAN I suppose needs to be hashed out.

However its a little fact that a lot of the otherkin do a 180 degree
turnaround in their gender identity.Hence normal male guy suddenly
decides he's a female elf.

So we got a male rib that thinks it is female ( the bible)
and male guys doing a gender identity switch ( the Awakening)

 

[romancatholicdragon]

Exactly what I only wish the whole world knew. Not just about DARRIONS, about everyone else in the world. Almost everyones eyes are closed to everyone elses hearts and souls around them, even our christian brothers and sisters. Will you not accept each and every believer for who they are, no matter what they believe or not. I'm not saying that you MUST believe what we do, but if we are christians, then why not at least come to us with open arms, instead of preaching against one or more of our beliefs. So, you may not believe the otherkin for who they are, but believe some of us for being christians. Accept our souls for our choice in faiths, not of our souls origins. I've thanked God thousands of times for my draconity. Not because im weird or overly nerdy, but because it is a part of me and the thought of my soul not being human has helped me out in some dark times, with Christ's help, of course. I have this whole rant on ignorance, but i'll save that for later.[UOTE]=

i think I'm beginning to see how the game works.Basically bringing in a buddhist concept such as reincarnation to a christian forum is a lost cause.
You've got to deal with them with THEIR bible,not the teachings of
buddha,confucious or who'ever.

That said

I'd compare the Awakening to when the Holy Ghost descended on the 12
apostles and they all started babbling in foreign tongues and all
that.



A lot of Christs parables dealt with the Masters relations
with bad people.So if we charge ahead and say otherkin are
swayed by Satan,that does not automatically mean they're
going to hell.I can recall one parable where a cheating servant basically
wrote off all the debts owed to his Master,knowing the Master would give him
the boot.So though the cheat didn't go to heaven,NEITHER did he go to
hell.So if one assumes all them mother/father spirit beings are the ones
owing money to the Master,presumably they'll be looking after the cheating
servant( the otherkin) in the afterlife

Lets accept that you can only get into Heaven thru Jesus.However in the
Catholic faith we were taught that unbaptized babies went to
Paradise.So if one says a otherkin soul is a newborn beasty,there'll be
some funtimes in Paradise sometime in the future.

Theres also limbo,for those not so bad.Basically the cheating servants
go there,and presumably if you've been liberal with your bribes on Earth,the prayers offered up to God might get you into Heaven.( grade
school catholic lessons)

 

[romancatholicdragon]

Oni, what is the difference between a dragon and a wyrm?

worm is probably a better spelling and serpent better yet
Drak is the roman rootword of dragon and refers to the drak head
windsock the roman legions used when they were doing their sporting events
to identify the various teams.I'd suggest checking up on Pontius Pilate and the
the roman soldiers involved in christs crucifixion.As for that lance they cut him with,I believe they hund the dragons head windsock onto spears or
lances when it was used.