Christ had nothing to with Christmas and its a pagan holiday?!? Nimrod related.

katherine2001

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I think Eph's problem is that midnight Mass is too late for him to stay up, and Easter service is too early for him to get up, hence they must be abolished.
The EO usually start the Paschal service at 11:30pm on Saturday night and don't finish until about 2:30pm and then do the blessing of the Pascha baskets and then we feast together after the lenten and holy week fasting are done. Most of us don't get home til 5am and then are back in the early afternoon for Agape Vespers.
 
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Eph4:26

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Reviewing the comments to this topic, nearly all the participates subscribe to the Theology of Christmas.

Theology of Christmas
has the following characteristics:

1. An oral tradition passed down from the previous generation; for Catholics dating back to the mid-fourth century, Protestants back to the mid-nineteenth century.

2. Feelings of melancholy and euphoria at the time of the winter solstice.

3. A faith in Christmas is right because an organized religious institute says so and secular society accepts it.

4. Willful disregard for what Scripture teaches regarding celebrating birthdays or embracing pagan holidays.

The emoticon that best represents this group think is :groupray:
 
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Second Phoenix

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Reviewing the comments to this topic, nearly all the participates subscribe to the Theology of Christmas.


Christmas is not a 'theology'.

Theology of Christmas
has the following characteristics:

1. An oral tradition passed down from the previous generation; for Catholics dating back to the mid-fourth century, Protestants back to the mid-nineteenth century.

It's not an oral tradition and it goes back much father than the 300s. It evolved from early Christian practices.

2. Feelings of melancholy and euphoria at the time of the winter solstice.

That invalidates it somehow? Is misery what you like to feel about things of faith?

3. A faith in Christmas is right because an organized religious institute says so and secular society accepts it.

It's accepted because it has always been practiced. No one needs to say it is 'right' - it just always was. It was the radical protestants that centuries ago decided Christianity was completely wrong and needed to start something new. Joining the ranks of Muslims, JWs, Mormons, etc. Of course, that didn't work out.

4. Willful disregard for what Scripture teaches regarding celebrating birthdays or embracing pagan holidays.

The bible doesn't teach against birthdays- and Christmas is not about "Jesus' birthday". It is a celebration of a profound miracle. It's also not a pagan holiday.
 
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Eph4:26

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Christmas is not a 'theology'.

It's not an oral tradition and it goes back much father than the 300s. It evolved from early Christian practices.

The first Christ-Mass didn't hit any calendars until after the Nicean Council made it official around 355 A. D. If you have a primary source earlier that counters my claim, now's your opportunity to post it here.
 
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prodromos

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The EO usually start the Paschal service at 11:30pm on Saturday night and don't finish until about 2:30pm and then do the blessing of the Pascha baskets and then we feast together after the lenten and holy week fasting are done. Most of us don't get home til 5am
Just in time to light the charcoal and start the lamb on the spit! (sleep is a poor substitute for coffee anyway ;))
and then are back in the early afternoon for Agape Vespers.
Unfortunately I haven't made it back for Vespers yet as we have been hosting the extended family get together. I believe it is one of the most beautiful services of the year
 
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Second Phoenix

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The first Christ-Mass didn't hit any calendars until after the Nicean Council made it official around 355 A. D. If you have a primary source earlier that counters my claim, now's your opportunity to post it here.

Christmas was officially moved in the west to December 25th in 355AD. By saying 'made it official' are you implying it was celebrated before that?

Christmas was celebrated on various dates prior to that. The first known mention of Christmas was in 200AD from Egypt.
 
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Eph4:26

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. . . Christmas was celebrated on various dates prior to that. The first known mention of Christmas was in 200AD from Egypt.
Yes, I'm familiar with that legend. However, I have yet to see and primary source documentation to substantiate it.
 
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Second Phoenix

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The whole 'Christmas was made up' or 'Christmas was a converted pagan holiday' is not taken seriously by any scholars and academics of the field given all the evidence. It was a belief invented by radical protestants of the Puritan/Anabaptist tradition. Certain protestant groups rejected all Christian holidays, feast days, etc - getting rid of everything but the barebones in order to reform Christianity.

This was not hard to maintain when Christians lived in single religious regions or isolated communities. However, when Christmas, Easter, etc began being celebrated by those of the Anabaptist/Puritan tradition, they thought they might be losing their flock to the pro-tradition protestants and Catholics. Then, out of nowhere, an argument that was not made history, emerged that it was all pagan.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Some of the restored apostolic age christianity advocate folk eschew Christmas and Easter; Jehovah's witnesses come to mind, they are from that stock. Some Presbyterian folk dislike crosses and holidays. It seems to be linked to views about purity of worship and the like.
 
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Eph4:26

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Second Phoenix, you are entitled to your set of opinions, but not your set of facts. I'll present one such citation that refutes your opinion now.

The whole 'Christmas was made up' or 'Christmas was a converted pagan holiday' is not taken seriously by any scholars and academics of the field given all the evidence. . .
"The de-Christianization of Christmas is blatant: few people attend midnight mass these days, and Father Christmas/
Santa Claus is more important than Jesus. But this de-Christianization becomes explicit in a "multiculturalist" framework, where a number of voices are clamoring for all Christian references to disappear in favor of a religious neutrality; the word "Christmas" is often evaded in the US in favor of "Holiday"; American department have systematically begun replacing their Merry Christmas banners with the religiously neutral Season's Greetings, much to the displeaure of many Christians"

"The American Puritans did not celebrate Christmas, since for the strict Protestants there was no Biblical foundation for this celebration, and in the early nineteenth century Congress used to sit on Christmas Day. Modern day Christmas, a family festival celebrated by the fireside, with a Christmas tree and presents, is a first step towards the de-Christianization of the birth of Christ, for it stared in Victorian England following the publication of Charles Dickens' novel A Christmas Carol. This was a departure from the Christan celebration for the period, when people left the warmth of their homes to walk through the cold night to Church. Once again, a "Christan tradition' turns out to be a cultural construct" p. 122

HOLY IGNORANCE
When Religion and Culture Part Ways
By Olivier Roy
Translated by Ros Schwartz.259 pp. Columbia University Press. $27.50


Mr. Roy, who is professor at the European University Institute in Florence, Italy, uses the term 'cultural construct' and 'paganization' interchangeably.
 
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ancientsoul

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i was taught the concept of the tree part came from this verse ...

Hosea 14:8 ... Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.

fir trees are always green ... they never 'die' ...
 
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Second Phoenix

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Second Phoenix, you are entitled to your set of opinions, but not your set of facts. I'll present one such citation that refutes your opinion now.


"The de-Christianization of Christmas is blatant: few people attend midnight mass these days, and Father Christmas/
Santa Claus is more important than Jesus. But this de-Christianization becomes explicit in a "multiculturalist" framework, where a number of voices are clamoring for all Christian references to disappear in favor of a religious neutrality; the word "Christmas" is often evaded in the US in favor of "Holiday"; American department have systematically begun replacing their Merry Christmas banners with the religiously neutral Season's Greetings, much to the displeaure of many Christians"

"The American Puritans did not celebrate Christmas, since for the strict Protestants there was no Biblical foundation for this celebration, and in the early nineteenth century Congress used to sit on Christmas Day. Modern day Christmas, a family festival celebrated by the fireside, with a Christmas tree and presents, is a first step towards the de-Christianization of the birth of Christ, for it stared in Victorian England following the publication of Charles Dickens' novel A Christmas Carol. This was a departure from the Christan celebration for the period, when people left the warmth of their homes to walk through the cold night to Church. Once again, a "Christan tradition' turns out to be a cultural construct" p. 122

HOLY IGNORANCE
When Religion and Culture Part Ways
By Olivier Roy
Translated by Ros Schwartz.259 pp. Columbia University Press. $27.50


Mr. Roy, who is professor at the European University Institute in Florence, Italy, uses the term 'cultural construct' and 'paganization' interchangeably.

That had nothing to do with anything we discussed.
I am not talking about opinions, but historical facts.
 
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