Choices in the Garden of Eden

[Tawhano]

What do you mean by good from bad? You are saying that Eve knew it would be bad for her? Then why on earth would she do it?

(Gen 3:13) And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

So now you are saying she disobeyed. Without knowing the difference between good and evil. Your point is?

My point is that she disobeyed and was punished. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Hardly. I'm not a Calvinist, but I know they don't believe that God was once a man, and that we can ourselves become God.


I'll pass on that one because I think Calvinism is best described by a Calvinist.

Fair enough.

I think they bore the consequences of their actions. The tree of life was the source of their eternal life so they were separated from it, were forced to start growing their own food, and eventually died.


Original sin or not, my children weren't guaranteed to disregard my warning and walk out onto that lake (and in fact, they never did). But they could have, because they had free will. Likewise, Adam and Eve weren't guaranteed to disregard God's warning and eat from that tree. But they could have, and did, because they had free will.

You know, it sounds like Adam and Eve would have lived in the garden forever had they never eaten the forbidden fruit. In fact it may have been centuries that they were there avoiding temptation, if it even makes sense to say that given their ignorance of good and evil. So it was just a matter of time before they fell since their free will provides a nonzero chance they will eat of the tree any given day and therefore an impossibility that they would never have eaten the fruit. So really they were doing what God wanted, yet he punished them.

Or was Adam mortal all along since he hadn't eaten of the tree of life?

 

[ChetSinger]

You know, it sounds like Adam and Eve would have lived in the garden forever had they never eaten the forbidden fruit.

Imo they would still be living on the earth, somewhere.

In fact it may have been centuries that they were there avoiding temptation, if it even makes sense to say that given their ignorance of good and evil.

It would have been at most about 130 years minus the age of Abel when he was killed.

So it was just a matter of time before they fell since their free will provides a nonzero chance they will eat of the tree any given day and therefore an impossibility that they would never have eaten the fruit. So really they were doing what God wanted, yet he punished them.

That is a fatalistic conclusion I don't share.

Or was Adam mortal all along since he hadn't eaten of the tree of life?

My opinion is in agreement with Thomas Aquinas on this one: Adam's immortality was conditional and depended on periodic eating from the tree of life. Once access to it was denied he began to age.

 

[bling]

This does not answer the OP. It attempts to answer what you are quoting from me but uses many unsubstantiated claims such as, "...so he loved her more than God and could not live without her, so he ate also."

We know Eve was deceived and we know Adam was not deceived so we only speculate on Adam's motive from what we know about Adam, Adam relationship with Eve and God. Adam did not have Godly type Love at this time since he sinned.

 

[fatboys]

We know Eve was deceived and we know Adam was not deceived so we only speculate on Adam's motive from what we know about Adam, Adam relationship with Eve and God. Adam did not have Godly type Love at this time since he sinned.

Because Eve figured out Gods plan before Adam did

 

[BigDaddy4]

Their experience with good and bad was that of a two year old

It would seem that the lds who came up with that concept had the mind of a 2 year old. And the rest of the lds bought into it and continue to regurgitate. It is unfounded anywhere in scripture.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I didn't say that Adam and Eve had brain of two year old children. But they didn't have an understanding of good and evil.
They didn't know the difference between them.

Which is nothing more than a childish speculation and is not based on the truth of any scripture.

 

[bling]

Because Eve figured out Gods plan before Adam did

That is not the way being deceived is described in scripture.

 

[Alla27]

Which is nothing more than a childish speculation and is not based on the truth of any scripture.

FACT: ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE God said: behold, the man is become as one of us, TO KNOW good and evil.
So, I do not speculate. The Bible claims that Adam and Eve did NOT KNOW good and evil before they ate fruit.

 

[Alla27]

It would seem that the lds who came up with that concept had the mind of a 2 year old. And the rest of the lds bought into it and continue to regurgitate. It is unfounded anywhere in scripture.

I don't believe they had MIND of 2 year old. But according to the Bible they had an experience and knowledge of good and evil of 2 year old.

 

[Alla27]

FACT: ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE Adam and Eve CHOSE to learn about good and EVIL.

Not fact. This is based on Mormon doctrine and not the Bible.

I do not discuss Mormon doctrine. I discuss the Bible.
FACT: There was a tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil according to the Bible
FACT: Adam and Eve were NOT forced but CHOSE to have KNOWLEDGE of good and evil and death according to the Bible.

 

[Alla27]

ANSWER: ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE - Gods know all this evil from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

This is also based on Mormon doctrine and not the Bible.

False.
FACT: according to the Bible Jesus Christ who is God Creator of heaven and earth came to earth and had PERSONAL EXPERIENCE He did NOT have in heaven where He came from. God and Creator of heaven and earth experienced EVIL - humiliation, pain and physical death.
Question: Does Son know and experienced something that His God and His Father doesn't know and NEVER experienced?

 

[Alla27]

God Son KNOWS what physical pain and physical death are. He experienced it.
Does God Father know what physical pain is? death?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

(Gen 3:13) And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

So she knew something as a fact, but the serpent convinced her otherwise. Could the serpent have convinced her that 2+2=5?

My point is that she disobeyed and was punished. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer.

1. God deliberately makes Eve so she doesn't understand right and wrong
2. God deliberately gives her "free will"
3. Eve eventually does wrong (isn't this an inevitability, given 1 and 2?)
4. God punishes Eve

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Stop adding to what I say.

The fruit was that of death, and greed which only brings death as all that is not of God is of death. Indeed it was not the tree of life.

Whole different tree there friend.

Peace

You didn't answer the question. Did the tree of knowledge of good and evil impart said knowledge or not?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Imo they would still be living on the earth, somewhere.


It would have been at most about 130 years minus the age of Abel when he was killed.

Ok.

That is a fatalistic conclusion I don't share.

So do you disagree with all of mathematics or just the probability branch?

My opinion is in agreement with Thomas Aquinas on this one: Adam's immortality was conditional and depended on periodic eating from the tree of life. Once access to it was denied he began to age.

Seems plausible enough I guess if one believes in the story.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

We know Eve was deceived and we know Adam was not deceived so we only speculate on Adam's motive from what we know about Adam, Adam relationship with Eve and God. Adam did not have Godly type Love at this time since he sinned.

Ok... so if Eve was innocent, ignorant, and deceived by the serpent that God allowed near her, then why was she punished?

 

[ChetSinger]

So do you disagree with all of mathematics or just the probability branch?

Just to your application of it here.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You didn't answer the question. Did the tree of knowledge of good and evil impart said knowledge or not?

Knowledge of sin? Yes.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Knowledge of sin? Yes.

So they were unaware of sin until AFTER eating of the tree, and yet they were punished for doing so?