Choices in the Garden of Eden

[Nihilist Virus]

Just to your application of it here.

If you have free will, and it is physically possible for you to perform a certain action, then there is a certain probability that you will do it. IF that probability is 0 or 1, then you DO NOT have the free will to do it.

So IF there is some event with a probability of occurring between 0 and 1, then it MUST occur given infinite time.

QED

 

[popsthebuilder]

So they were unaware of sin until AFTER eating of the tree, and yet they were punished for doing so?

No. There was one sin they expressly knew of. That singular sin(greed) is the cause of all other sins.

 

[ChetSinger]

If you have free will, and it is physically possible for you to perform a certain action, then there is a certain probability that you will do it. IF that probability is 0 or 1, then you DO NOT have the free will to do it.

So IF there is some event with a probability of occurring between 0 and 1, then it MUST occur given infinite time.

QED

You're assuming "infinite time"? Based on what? Does the text ever say, for example, that:

• They were always going to remain in that garden?
• The tree was always going to be there?
• God's rule against eating from it was always going to be there?
• The tempter was always going to be there?

I don't read any of those things into the text, so I don't agree with your conclusion that their sin was fated to happen.

 

[BigDaddy4]

FACT: ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE God said: behold, the man is become as one of us, TO KNOW good and evil.
So, I do not speculate. The Bible claims that Adam and Eve did NOT KNOW good and evil before they ate fruit.

Your interpretation is speculation. Both were told not to eat from that tree and would die if they did.

Right/wrong =/= Good/evil

 

[BigDaddy4]

I don't believe they had MIND of 2 year old. But according to the Bible they had an experience and knowledge of good and evil of 2 year old.

Not FACT. You saying it over and over still will not make it true. You are being dishonest.

 

[Alla27]

Your interpretation is speculation. Both were told not to eat from that tree and would die if they did.

Right/wrong =/= Good/evil

It was a quote from the Bible not my speculation. God said that man BECAME like one of Them KNOWING good and evil.
What part of word "BECAME" don't you understand?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Did you see that part that says he cursed the ground for our sake?

That a so we might learn of the rightious path under GOD and not be utterly destroyed. It still stands.

It's not a punishment so much as a blessed opportunity.

2¢

Peace

 

[Tawhano]

So she knew something as a fact, but the serpent convinced her otherwise. Could the serpent have convinced her that 2+2=5?

How should I know and what has that to do with this thread?

The 4 points you made do not reflect my views. I refuse to argue points that do not address my views.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

How should I know and what has that to do with this thread?

The 4 points you made do not reflect my views. I refuse to argue points that do not address my views.

Your views don't address my views either. Allow me to reiterate:

1. Adam and Eve were unaware of good and evil, or at least were unaware of their significance
2. God allows a crafty deceiver to converse with them
3. They unwittingly commit evil
4. God punishes them

How is this justice?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Your views don't address my views either. Allow me to reiterate:

1. Adam and Eve were unaware of good and evil, or at least were unaware of their significance
2. God allows a crafty deceiver to converse with them
3. They unwittingly commit evil
4. God punishes them

How is this justice?

No shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground;

And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.’

I would like to state that man was always made to tend the garden and work the field according to that.

It wasn't a punishment.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

No shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground;

And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.’

I would like to state that man was always made to tend the garden and work the field according to that.

It wasn't a punishment.

Pain in childbirth also not a punishment?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pain in childbirth also not a punishment?

A sign of life's significance, and the very trials and pains that are to be indured for the very direction of life by God's will, for our sake.

 

[St_Worm2]

Your views don't address my views either. Allow me to reiterate:

1. Adam and Eve were unaware of good and evil, or at least were unaware of their significance
2. God allows a crafty deceiver to converse with them
3. They unwittingly commit evil
4. God punishes them

How is this justice?

Hi NV, this is what I believe in regard to your points above (point by point):

1. We will have to agree to disagree, because I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches
2. True
3. False, because Adam committed evil (IOW, he disobeyed God's specific command to him) with the full knowledge that he was doing so. He also knew that there would be a heavy price to pay if he disobeyed (Genesis 2:16-17). And he was hardly unaware of what he was doing, nor did he at any point attempt to claim such a thing. Rather, after he disobeyed, he tried to hide himself from God (Genesis 3:8) and then, when God found him, he immediately tried to pass the blame for his disobedience to his wife AND to God (for giving her to him in the first place .. see Genesis 3:12). He was guilty of doing what he knew God told him not to do, and he clearly knew it was wrong!!
4. True
​

How is this justice? Simple, Adam did what God specifically told him not to do and God punished him because of it, just like He told him he would do beforehand. There's really nothing more to it than that!

Yours and His,
David

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I thought this thread needed a little uplift on humor.

 

[St_Worm2]

I tried to lighten it up a few thread pages back, but then the thread's author told me to stop (I think it was NV anyway ) because he didn't think I was taking the subject seriously enough.

I, for one, appreciate your attempt though

Yours and His,
David

 

[Nihilist Virus]

A sign of life's significance, and the very trials and pains that are to be indured for the very direction of life by God's will, for our sake.

Are you telling me that God is helping women by making childbirth painful?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Hi NV, this is what I believe in regard to your points above (point by point):

1. We will have to agree to disagree, because I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches
2. True
3. False, because Adam committed evil (IOW, he disobeyed God's specific command to him) with the full knowledge that he was doing so. He also knew that there would be a heavy price to pay if he disobeyed (Genesis 2:16-17). And he was hardly unaware of what he was doing, nor did he at any point attempt to claim such a thing. Rather, after he disobeyed, he tried to hide himself from God (Genesis 3:8) and then, when God found him, he immediately tried to pass the blame for his disobedience to his wife AND to God (for giving her to him in the first place .. see Genesis 3:12). He was guilty of doing what he knew God told him not to do, and he clearly knew it was wrong!!
4. True
​

How is this justice? Simple, Adam did what God specifically told him not to do and God punished him because of it, just like He told him he would do beforehand. There's really nothing more to it than that!

Yours and His,
David

Why was it called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi NV, I believe God put the stipulation He did on that particular tree principally as a test of obedience for Adam and Eve. If they passed the test, they and their progeny would have enjoyed everlasting spiritual and physical life, free from sickness, degradation, infirmities and, of course, death. They (and we through them) would have had life as God originally intended it to be.

Sadly, they didn't pass the test.

I believe God called it the "tree of the knowledge of good AND evil", because while our progenitors had already known or experienced "good" personally, if they disobeyed God by doing the one thing he had expressly forbidden them to do, they would come to know or experience "evil" personally as well.

God "knows" evil because of holy omniscience, not because of personal experience, and so it would have been for our first parents if they had chosen to obey rather than disobey God's command.

Yours and His,
David

 

[bling]

I will agree for a moment that God punished Adam and Eve for disobeying Him. Why did He punish me? Why didn't He give me an opportunity to start in the place like garden of Eden?

The Greek and the Hebrew word translated most often “punish/punishment” is the same word for “disciplining” and would be better translated “disciplining”, the same as your earthly father does not “punish” you, but lovingly “disciplines” you.

Being disciplined for rebellious disobedience by a loving parent when correctly received is a blessing to the child and results in the child not just being “restored” to his previous relationship with the parent, but being transformed into a stronger relationship with the parent.

You are not being “punished” for something Adam and Eve did!

The reason you are not in the Garden situation is because not only did Adam and Eve learn from their experience, but we have all learned from their experience that the Garden situation is a lousy (impossible) place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective. In your personal situation right now is the very best situation for you to fulfill your earthly objective, but it is up to you.

 

[Tawhano]

Your views don't address my views either. Allow me to reiterate:

Then why do you post your views and then expect me to defend them? You reiteration is not my views and I will not defend them.