Choices in the Garden of Eden

[popsthebuilder]

Adam and Eve did not understand the difference between good and evil before they ate of the tree. Therefore, they did not commit evil deliberately. Yet they were punished. What is your explanation?

They deliberately went against the will of GOD. All was theirs, yet they failed to see due to deception.

They did not have to know of evil in their blissful state to know that literally all was given to them, and that the one thing they were advised against was indeed the one thing that would end their existence.

Thankfully, GOD is merciful and afforded us a means to find our way back home.

 

[St_Worm2]

God gave them an opportunity to disobey the second commandment. Did God understand that they would disobey it without an understanding that to disobey God is evil/sin?

Did God "understand"

Adam and Eve both understood what they did was wrong before they did it (Genesis 2:16-17), they understood what they did was wrong after they did it (Genesis 3:12-13), and they understood that they were going to pay a great price because of it, again, both before and after they did it (Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:16-24). The Bible seems clear about this, so I'm having trouble understanding why it continues to be unclear to you.

Would God punish someone who sins without knowledge and understanding that it was sin/evil? If a person from some tribe in Americas did not know that to worship idols and bring human sacrifice is sin/evil would God punish this ignorant of His law person?

No, Adam however, was not ignorant. Unlike a tribesmen in the Americas who knows nothing of God or His laws, Adam knew God face to face and He absolutely knew what he was forbidden to do. His sin involved breaking the direct commandment of God, something that would not be possible again until Moses brought the 10 Commandments down from Mt. Sinai to the people of Israel (Romans 5:14).

Where does it say that it is punishment from God and not just a warning of danger?

Where does it say that it is not

One other thing, when you say "the second commandment", while I understood your meaning, it's confusing as the "2nd Commandment" is always understood to be the 2nd of 10 Commandments.

 

[popsthebuilder]

They did not know/did not understand the difference between good eternal prosperity and evil death.

Surely they knew death wasn't what they were experiencing. Furthermore they weren't stupid, but ignorant. Surely God didn't say "this fruit will ___.

They had an understanding of what death was in a sense that it was not existence.

 

[popsthebuilder]

But they did not understand that death is evil, eternal prosperity is good.
They disobeyed in innocence. Can you punish a child who disobeys in innocence?

It isn't about them disobeying.

It is a means for them to learn for themselves since they couldn't just be told, evidently. They had the opportunity just like we do now, to leave greed and want. They actively chose greed. You focus on evil(greed), and ignorance, and punishment. We disobeyed by way of free will. This freewill will also bring us to the understanding of GOD, by his mercy.

Pains and work aren't punishment so much as a way to learn through the very knowledge we chose.

All is of GOD and will return to GOD.

Peace

 

[Nihilist Virus]

They deliberately went against the will of GOD. All was theirs, yet they failed to see due to deception.

They did not have to know of evil in their blissful state to know that literally all was given to them, and that the one thing they were advised against was indeed the one thing that would end their existence.

Thankfully, GOD is merciful and afforded us a means to find our way back home.

They deliberately went against the will of God. I'm in full agreement with you, bud. BUT they did not understand it was wrong or evil to do so. So why was it just to punish them? Last time I'm asking or else the two of us are simply done here.

 

[popsthebuilder]

They deliberately went against the will of God. I'm in full agreement with you, bud. BUT they did not understand it was wrong or evil to do so. So why was it just to punish them? Last time I'm asking or else the two of us are simply done here.

They did understand that it was wrong.

And instead of utterly destroying them, he gave them, and all man an opportunity.

 

[ChetSinger]

Adam and Eve did not understand the difference between good and evil before they ate of the tree. Therefore, they did not commit evil deliberately. Yet they were punished. What is your explanation?

Even if they didn't yet have personal experience with good and evil, they had functioning brains that could understand a warning. That is, they understood that if they ate from that tree they would die. That was why Satan had to lie to Eve and say: "You will not die!".

 

[St_Worm2]

Adam and Eve were innocent UNTIL they disobeyed God. At that point they were no longer innocent. And they absolutely knew that disobeying Him was wrong, and they knew there would be consequences if they chose to disobey Him, all BEFORE they did (Genesis 2:16-17).

 

[St_Worm2]

Adam and Eve were innocent UNTIL they did what God told them not to do. At that point they were guilty, of course.

Adam and Eve were not little children. God gave them a command that He expected them to obey. He would not have done so if they did not have the capacity to understand and obey what He commanded (for instance, if they only possessed the mind of an infant or a 2 year old, such a thing would have been both pointless and cruel on God's part). It's clear that they knew right from wrong (which is why God was angry with them and why He punished them for disobeying Him .. Genesis 3).

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Christians: if you don't believe that the story of the garden is literal, then this thread may not be for you.

Ah another thread wherein you are specifically arguing against a particular biblical literalism... Why not pick a fight with a more respectable attitude to religion?

 

[Tawhano]

I should have said that they were unable to understand the difference between good and evil until after eating of the tree. Now that it is worded properly, do you have an answer?

Yes, they were punished for their disobedience.

Is the knowledge of good and evil the same as knowing right from wrong or knowing good from bad? The scriptures show that Eve knew that eating from the tree that God forbade them to do was a bad thing. Eve said:

(Gen 3:3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

It wasn’t until the serpent cast doubt in what God had said, “thou shalt surely die”, that Eve examined the tree and saw it was good. If Eve was unaware that eating the fruit was bad or wrong then why did the serpent need to trick her into eating it? Eve chose to eat after being told it was a good thing to do by the serpent. Indeed when she examined the tree she saw the fruit was “good for food”. Eve chose to do what God told her not to do. That is called disobedience.

 

[bling]

I agree.
But there is a difference between
1)disobeying with understanding that disobeying is evil/bad/wrong and
and
2)disobeying without this kind of understanding.

2 year old child knows that mama said :"do not touch it, do not put this in your mouth", but 2 year old can not comprehend that it is wrong to disobey mama.
2 year old is not going to be punished. Even earthly parents understand that it is ridiculous to punish 2 year old for disobedience.
Yes, they disobeyed but their disobedience was not a sin it was a TRANSGRESSION (wasn't it a transgression according to the Bible)?

You are making God out to be a lousy parent, since Adam and Eve were “programmed” (taught by God) to adulthood, so they could function on their own, know the meaning to words, be able to care for the Garden, have enough knowledge to name all the animals and even survive outside of the Garden.

Adan and Eve, while in the Garden, did not need “knowledge” of good and evil, but could understand God concerning right and wrong and what dying meant.

If you say they were like two year olds than they were not the very best all human representatives we could have and thus we can say: “I would not have eaten given the same situation, so for God to be fair I should start out in the Garden”. If Adam and Eve were our best representatives than we can look at the Garden scenario and say: “the Garden is obviously a lousy (impossible) place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective, so it is best we are not in the Garden situation.”

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Yes, they were punished for their disobedience.

Is the knowledge of good and evil the same as knowing right from wrong or knowing good from bad? The scriptures show that Eve knew that eating from the tree that God forbade them to do was a bad thing. Eve said:

(Gen 3:3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

What do you mean by good from bad? You are saying that Eve knew it would be bad for her? Then why on earth would she do it? You are saying Eve knew it would be bad in some moral sense? Well, NO, she didn't know that.

It wasn’t until the serpent cast doubt in what God had said, “thou shalt surely die”, that Eve examined the tree and saw it was good. If Eve was unaware that eating the fruit was bad or wrong then why did the serpent need to trick her into eating it? Eve chose to eat after being told it was a good thing to do by the serpent. Indeed when she examined the tree she saw the fruit was “good for food”. Eve chose to do what God told her not to do. That is called disobedience.

So now you are saying she disobeyed. Without knowing the difference between good and evil. Your point is?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Ah another thread wherein you are specifically arguing against a particular biblical literalism... Why not pick a fight with a more respectable attitude to religion?

So taking the Bible literally is disrespectful? Back to the drawing board, buddy.

 

[Hawkins]

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil seems to be the thing which has given mankind the distinction between good and evil. So if Adam and Eve were unaware of good and evil, or at least the significance of such things, then why did God punishment them for their disobedience? Please explain how this story makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, and you believe it is a literal story, then where do you go from there?

Atheists: please allow the premise that the story of the garden is literal history and not a myth.

Christians: if you don't believe that the story of the garden is literal, then this thread may not be for you.

The best protection of humans are when they are as innocent as a child. A child won't be subject to the judgment of any Law. However, after man can tell good from evil, it means that Law applies and God has to do what the Law says.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Even if they didn't yet have personal experience with good and evil, they had functioning brains that could understand a warning. That is, they understood that if they ate from that tree they would die. That was why Satan had to lie to Eve and say: "You will not die!".

If they truly understood they would die, and if they truly understood what death is, then WHY on this magnificent earth would they do it?

The fact is that they were unaware of good and evil and they were deceived by a clever, ancient, malicious being (he was there why exactly?), and then they were punished for it.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

They did understand that it was wrong.

And instead of utterly destroying them, he gave them, and all man an opportunity.

So what you are saying is that they were aware of right and wrong without being aware of good and evil? Or are you saying that they were aware of good and evil before eating of the tree? If so, why did God not want them to eat of the other tree? Please clarify.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The best protection of humans are when they are as innocent as a child. A child won't be subject to the judgment of any Law. However, after man can tell good from evil, it means that Law applies and God has to do what the Law says.

So you are saying that once they ate the fruit and understood right from wrong they were subject to fair punishment, even though they were unaware of the difference between (or existence of) right and wrong at the time they committed the act?

 

[bling]

If they truly understood they would die, and if they truly understood what death is, then WHY on this magnificent earth would they do it?

The fact is that they were unaware of good and evil and they were deceived by a clever, ancient, malicious being (he was there why exactly?), and then they were punished for it.

The Bible says: “Eve was deceived”, but Adam was not deceived.

Eve did lots of things that were wrong, but not a sin against God prior to eating the fruit that led to her eating the fruit and Adam may have helped to mislead Eve, also.

Eve was extremely curious about the tree (like most women) and Adam may have been assigned to explain the truth about the tree to her, but did not address everything she would have liked to know and even in passing said “do not even touch the tree”.

Like most people; Eve was interested in having more knowledge, so she was willing to listen to someone (even a serpent) that told her what she wanted to hear: “you shall not die and you will become like God Himself”. Eve let herself lust after the fruit and eventually eat of it.

Adam knew he would die if he ate, but by this time with Eve, he loved her like Romeo in “Romeo and Juliet”, so he loved her more than God and could not live without her, so he ate also.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Adam and Eve were hardly IGNORANT as there is no question that they knew what they did was wrong BEFORE they did it. And once they did what God had personally and specifically told them not to do, they were no longer INNOCENT.

They knew right from wrong before eating of the tree?