Charles Darwin & Genesis 3:5

[Oneiric1975]

Is this the speech you had in mind for anyone who dared answered your challenge?Were you planning on giving them the third degree and expecting to see them buckle?

Well, I hope you had your little fun.

It's been a pleasure talking to you.

Are we done now?

No I knew YOU'D step up with the whole Witch Trials and Crusades....and you did!

As was established early on, though both of us agree that evolution is not the source of all the bad things that some critics would lay at its feet and for that I'm thankful to you.

I, personally, think you are making excuses for Christianity but I totally understand it and I'm glad you want to distance Christianity from the things that were obviously done in its name.

I personally think those people who found it appropriate to murder in the name of God to be doing so wrongly but I can certainly see how the Bible could be used by those of unappealing desires to justify their actions. Not in total, obviously! A loving God as we accept being part of Christianity doesn't want innocents murdered (1 Sam 15:3 notwithstanding) so it is GOOD to try to divorce the excesses of the past from the faith of today. I totally "get" that.

But I cannot see going so far as to say that the Bible doesn't in some ways support some of the unappealing actions taken by people in the past that we would not like happening today.

So for that I thank you as well.

You don't believe in witches today (which is good! Because they don't exist) but you arrive at this rational position from a very strange (and arguably irrational) route.

But at least you arrived.

 

[Kylie]

Maybe that is your problem, you do not know what the Bible actually states.

This is what satan/the serpent said " For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Nothing about satan giving knowledge

Yeah, you completely missed the point I was making here.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yeah, you completely missed the point I was making here.

There's a lot of it about.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'll do my three favorites:

1. the Crusades
2. the Inquisition
3. the Salem witch trials

Excuse I came up with: All done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

I first read it as "in the spirit of the Bible" and it made sense to me, but it surprised me that you would say it. Of course, that's not what you wrote.

 

[AV1611VET]

I first read it as "in the spirit of the Bible" and it made sense to me, but it surprised me that you would say it. Of course, that's not what you wrote.

They may have used the Bible to justify what they were doing to themselves and others, but they were wrong.

And the very Bible they used to justify themselves (assuming It was one of the Authorized Versions), exposed their errors.

 

[d taylor]

Get an education.

I'm going to try this one more time in more detail.

If I don't see a light bulb come on, we're done.

1. God created the earth.
2. He turned dominion of it over to Adam.
3. Adam gave it to Satan.
4. Satan offered it to Jesus.
5. Jesus declined (He will take it back by force in the Millennial Kingdom).
6. Jesus was crucified.
7. He told His disciples that, 10 days after He leaves, the Holy Ghost will take His place.
8. This occurred 0900 on 25 May 33, when the Holy Ghost came (see ontological subordination).
9. The Holy Ghost will leave at the Rapture, but one of his jobs is to keep demonic activity -- that's a general term that includes witches -- in check.

When He goes up in the Rapture, all aitch is going to break loose on the earth, with demonic activity spiking unchecked for a brief period of time.

To accuse someone of being a witch in this dispensation, is to say the Holy Ghost isn't doing His job.

Now, let's see a light bulb come on, or I'm finished with this third degree.

3. Adam lost it to satan

 

[AV1611VET]

6. Adam lost it to satan

Did you mean #3 for that?

 

[d taylor]

Did you mean #3 for that?

Yes missed numbered, that's why i am not an accountant

corrected

 

[dlamberth]

Sure.Sure thing ... let's go!

I'll do my three favorites:

1. the Crusades
2. the Inquisition
3. the Salem witch trials

Excuse I came up with: All done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

Neat, huh?

Those at the time truly believed that the horrors that they participated in did so with respect to the Bible.

We see a similar cross over even today in the political world with Q influence in the Evangelical world. That became very apparent as we watched Christian flags in the midst of the mobs on the Jan 6 insurrection. Those folks believe that what they are doing is in respect to the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Those at the time truly believed that the horrors that they participated in did so with respect to the Bible.

They were wrong too, weren't they?

Just like the Israelites who carried the Ark into battle against the Philistines thought they were doing the right thing; until the Philistines snatched it away.

Nadab & Abihu thought they were doing the right thing too, until they got a reality check.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They may have used the Bible to justify what they were doing to themselves and others, but they were wrong.

And the very Bible they used to justify themselves (assuming It was one of the Authorized Versions), exposed their errors.

Well, at the Salem Witch Trials they would have definitely used your favorite translation, and not even one of those slightly modernized versions from the 18th century as that hadn't started yet.

James himself was a witch hunter and wrote a book about it, prior to his rediscovery of the original text of the Bible.

 

[dlamberth]

They were wrong too, weren't they?

Do I think they were wrong? Yes.
But we have the advantage of hind sight.
Back than though both of us might have thought otherwise.

Women for most of Christian history were treated not much different than how the Taliban treat women today. That was done with Biblical justification. That's what people believed. Again, that is wrong. But again, because that was a social norm, I can't say that we would have acted differently.

Slavery was Biblically justified. Again, wrong. And again, because that was the accepted thought back than, I can't say that I would have disagreed with the Biblical justification of slavery.

 

[Joy]

MOD HAT ON

This Thread has Moved

From Creation & Evolution
To Creation & Theistic Evolution

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[The Barbarian]

Darwin gave the masses permission to be gods unto themselves, making their own morality apart from God's commands, by demonstrating that we don’t need God for our very existence, but instead that we are the result of a mechanistic evolutionary process.

That would be extremely odd, given that Darwin wrote about God creating the first living things:

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species, 1859

It's really unfortunate that this misconception has been so widely spread. Probably not an intentional dishonesty for most who repeat it, but it causes much harm to Christian belief among those who actually go and read what Darwin wrote.