Charles Darwin & Genesis 3:5

AV1611VET

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When I read the logic laid out like that I recalled how relieved I am that I turned away from Christianity decades ago. I have retained the appealing ethical aspects of Christ's teaching, best captured in the Sermon on the Mount and certain of the parables, but my view of the rest cannot be described here.
And how "relieved" are you that I'm not accepting any idea that the Salem witch trials were done with respect to the Bible?

Would you rather agree with Oneiric1975, or me?
 
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Ophiolite

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Do you know so little about biology that you don't even know there are asexual reproducers in nature?
Not to mention the hermaphroditic reproducers, and organisms that fertilise themselves and other that can change their sex. (Now remember, don't mention it.)
 
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AV1611VET

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Statistically it is likely I have FAR more education than you do.
Is that why you don't seem to know what dispensation theology is? or ontological subordination? or the role of the Holy Ghost in this era?

If you know so much, how's come I'm the one answering all the questions?
 
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Oneiric1975

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And how "relieved" are you that I'm not accepting any idea that the Salem witch trials were done with respect to the Bible?

So the people who conducted the Salem Witch Trials were either:

1. Heretics

or

2. Knowingly Evil and went against God willfully and rejected God outright by doing the Witch Trials

Which one is it.
 
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Oneiric1975

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Is that why you don't seem to know what dispensation theology is?

LOL. I do know what Dispensation Theology is. You seem to be confused between when someone doesn't necessarily adhere to YOUR favorite theology and them not knowing about it.

If you know so much, how's come I'm the one answering all the questions?

You overestimate what you are doing. ;)
 
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Ophiolite

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And how "relieved" are you that I'm not accepting any idea that the Salem witch trials were done with respect to the Bible?

Would you rather agree with Oneiric1975, or me?
AV, much against my better judgement I find I like you. However, I consider most of your ideas potty, your arguments, fatuous and your beliefs confused. Consequently, the only emotion I feel when contemplating any of your thoughts is a measure of paternalistic sadness.
 
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AV1611VET

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LOL. I do know what Dispensation Theology is. You seem to be confused between when someone doesn't necessarily adhere to YOUR favorite theology and them not knowing about it.
Then maybe the next time a witch hunt breaks out, they'll do it in your honor -- how's that sound?
 
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Oneiric1975

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Then maybe the next time a witch hunt breaks out, they'll do it in your honor -- how's that sound?

Look, I actually didn't realize that in the Medieval era belief in witches was less common, but I have never seen anyone claim it is in the Bible that witches were once real but were no longer real. That is where I think your hypothesis breaks down.

You are doing exactly what a rational person would do: you don't believe witches exist today (thanks in no small part due to advances in knowledge, so it no longer requires theological guessing games), but I think the way you arrived at that perfectly rational conclusion is not necessarily reflected in the Bible, hence the ability of people in the 17th century to think that it WAS a matter of faith.

Here's where I think your position feels more like haughty pride rather than reasoning and teaching:

You act like it is somehow SELF EVIDENT that the open-ended and completely witch-agnostic verse from Acts is somehow a clear indication that Witches no longer exist. It doesn't say that AT ALL. You could have grabbed any open-ended comment and said "See, that means God made witches non-existent after this date!" And you denigrate those who fail to have the same amount of imagination as YOU DO.

Secondly you act as if your sects' particular penchant for Dispensation Theology (not common across all Christian sects) is the be-all and end-all of theology. VERY chauvanistic of you. You are sitting in judgement of other Christians.

Thirdly you act as if you are somehow spreading all this great knowledge but everyone who fails to read the Bible with your special seeing-stones (or whatever you use) is somehow "less educated" than you are.

The self-reflective man might actually say to himself: "This is my belief and this is how I justify it, but I can certainly see how YOU might not see it that way because it is not obvious and is shared by few if anyone else."
 
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Estrid

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LOL. I do know what Dispensation Theology is. You seem to be confused between when someone doesn't necessarily adhere to YOUR favorite theology and them not knowing about it.



You overestimate what you are doing. ;)

Ask me any quextion in any language.
Heck, anyone can answer any question.
 
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Oneiric1975

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Few fundamentalists are at all well educated.

Probably true. I feel in AV's case he shows a lack of education by his approach to teaching. He fails to see his own position in any way critically thus rendering him unable to communicate it without it sounding absurd and a bit haughty.

I don't fault people for not having education beyond a certain level. What I do fault people for is to be so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot question their own position while telling everyone and everything else to "take a hike".
 
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Estrid

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Look, I actually didn't realize that in the Medieval era belief in witches was less common, but I have never seen anyone claim it is in the Bible that witches were once real but were no longer real. That is where I think your hypothesis breaks down.

You are doing exactly what a rational person would do: you don't believe witches exist today (thanks in no small part due to advances in knowledge, so it no longer requires theological guessing games), but I think the way you arrived at that perfectly rational conclusion is not necessarily reflected in the Bible, hence the ability of people in the 17th century to think that it WAS a matter of faith.

Here's where I think your position feels more like haughty pride rather than reasoning and teaching:

You act like it is somehow SELF EVIDENT that the open-ended and completely witch-agnostic verse from Acts is somehow a clear indication that Witches no longer exist. It doesn't say that AT ALL. You could have grabbed any open-ended comment and said "See, that means God made witches non-existent after this date!" And you denigrate those who fail to have the same amount of imagination as YOU DO.

Secondly you act as if your sects' particular penchant for Dispensation Theology (not common across all Christian sects) is the be-all and end-all of theology. VERY chauvanistic of you. You are sitting in judgement of other Christians.

Thirdly you act as if you are somehow spreading all this great knowledge but everyone who fails to read the Bible with your special seeing-stones (or whatever you use) is somehow "less educated" than you are.

The self-reflective man might actually say to himself: "This is my belief and this is how I justify it, but I can certainly see how YOU might not see it that way because it is not obvious and is shared by few if anyone else."

As Satan (played by AL Pacino) says in
The Devil's Advocate -

"Ah, Vanity. My favorite sin"
 
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Estrid

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Probably true. I feel in AV's case he shows a lack of education by his approach to teaching. He fails to see his own position in any way critically thus rendering him unable to communicate it without it sounding absurd and a bit haughty.

I don't fault people for not having education beyond a certain level. What I do fault people for is to be so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot question their own position while telling everyone and everything else to "take a hike".

No "probably" to it.
There is plenty of info on the
membership of churches, their
socioeconomic status, average education, etc.
Take a quick guess between unitarian and
Southern baptists.
Lemme find a link.

ETA

The most and least educated U.S. religious groups
Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics
 
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AV1611VET

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Look, I actually didn't realize that in the Medieval era belief in witches was less common, but I have never seen anyone claim it is in the Bible that witches were once real but were no longer real. That is where I think your hypothesis breaks down.

You are doing exactly what a rational person would do: you don't believe witches exist today (thanks in no small part due to advances in knowledge, so it no longer requires theological guessing games), but I think the way you arrived at that perfectly rational conclusion is not necessarily reflected in the Bible, hence the ability of people in the 17th century to think that it WAS a matter of faith.

Here's where I think your position feels more like haughty pride rather than reasoning and teaching:

You act like it is somehow SELF EVIDENT that the open-ended and completely witch-agnostic verse from Acts is somehow a clear indication that Witches no longer exist. It doesn't say that AT ALL. You could have grabbed any open-ended comment and said "See, that means God made witches non-existent after this date!" And you denigrate those who fail to have the same amount of imagination as YOU DO.

Secondly you act as if your sects' particular penchant for Dispensation Theology (not common across all Christian sects) is the be-all and end-all of theology. VERY chauvanistic of you. You are sitting in judgement of other Christians.

Thirdly you act as if you are somehow spreading all this great knowledge but everyone who fails to read the Bible with your special seeing-stones (or whatever you use) is somehow "less educated" than you are.

The self-reflective man might actually say to himself: "This is my belief and this is how I justify it, but I can certainly see how YOU might not see it that way because it is not obvious and is shared by few if anyone else."
Is this the speech you had in mind for anyone who dared answered your challenge?
Want to have some fun? Try pointing out things people of faith have done that are undesirable and see how many apologists turn up and how many excuses they come up with.
Were you planning on giving them the third degree and expecting to see them buckle?

Well, I hope you had your little fun.

It's been a pleasure talking to you.

Are we done now?
 
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AV1611VET

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Probably true. I feel in AV's case he shows a lack of education by his approach to teaching. He fails to see his own position in any way critically thus rendering him unable to communicate it without it sounding absurd and a bit haughty.

I don't fault people for not having education beyond a certain level. What I do fault people for is to be so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot question their own position while telling everyone and everything else to "take a hike".
I think you forget you're the one who started this conversation as if you were loaded for bear.
 
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