Changing your mind about prophecy

[Zao is life]

It is less than a normal week timespan between arriving in Jerusalem, hailed as the King of Israel/messiah on Psalms Sunday - and cutoff, crucified before the week is up on Good Friday.

Not weeks, months, years in between.

You should read The Atonement Clock. You will discover that your timeline for what took place in the 1st century and when it took place isn't the only one. Neither is the one contained in the Atonement Clock the only one. Many have given timelines and many differ from yours, and from the one in the Atonement Clock.

Personally I believe the timeline which leads up to the 70th week of Daniel, as found in the Atonement Clock is accurate. Not everyone agrees, and that's OK. To be honest, personally beyond finding the Atonement Clock an extremely uplifting book to read (and I believe it's accurate), and aside from the Atonement Clock, I've never understood why anyone would want to produce timelines for dates leading up to Calvary, or the return of Christ, and I especially do not understand why people want to produce timelines for the final 3.5 years or last 7 years or last 12 years or last 130 years of this Age.

It's perfectly alright for people to do that, if those sorts of timelines is their thing, but as long as no one who produces a timeline becomes angry with me because I neither agree with his timeline, nor am I interested. I've never been interested in end-of-the-age/last days timelines, and I never will be - and I disagree with your interpretations of the scriptures you use as the basis for your timeline. The only time I ever thought there might be 'something' in a timeline for the last days was when there were blood moons and solar eclipses occurring on all the Biblical appointed days/feasts in one and the same Biblical year. But the time came and went, and I had to remind myself that I was being ridiculous.

Sorry brother but I'm just not intresested in the least in last days timelines, and as I've already said in my replies to your posts where you posted your diagrams for your last days timeline, I disagree with your interpretations of the scriptures you use as the basis for those diagrams and your timeline.

 

[Douggg]

You should read The Atonement Clock. You will discover that your timeline for what took place in the 1st century and when it took place isn't the only one. Neither is the one contained in the Atonement Clock the only one. Many have given timelines and many differ from yours, and from the one in the Atonement Clock.

Personally I believe the timeline which leads up to the 70th week of Daniel, as found in the Atonement Clock is accurate. Not everyone agrees, and that's OK. To be honest, personally beyond finding the Atonement Clock an extremely uplifting book to read (and I believe it's accurate), and aside from the Atonement Clock, I've never understood why anyone would want to produce timelines for dates leading up to Calvary, or the return of Christ, and I especially do not understand why people want to produce timelines for the final 3.5 years or last 7 years or last 12 years or last 130 years of this Age.

It's perfectly alright for people to do that, if those sorts of timelines is their thing, but as long as no one who produces a timeline becomes angry with me because I neither agree with his timeline, nor am I interested. I've never been interested in end-of-the-age/last days timelines, and I never will be - and I disagree with your interpretations of the scriptures you use as the basis for your timeline. The only time I ever thought there might be 'something' in a timeline for the last days was when there were blood moons and solar eclipses occurring on all the Biblical appointed days/feasts in one and the same Biblical year. But the time came and went, and I had to remind myself that I was being ridiculous.

Sorry brother but I'm just not intresested in the least in last days timelines, and as I've already said in my replies to your posts where you posted your diagrams for your last days timeline, I disagree with your interpretations of the scriptures you use as the basis for those diagrams and your timeline.

The world is certainly full of apathy.

 

[Zao is life]

After this Friday night at 6pm when this show begins at 5pm and ends at 6pm, this show will no longer be airing on this channel.

When is it that this show initially gets cutoff? At the end of it airing on Friday where it airs from 5 to 6pm, or days or weeks later?

After can sometimes mean at the end of something.

Even if after doesn't mean during the 69 weeks, and if there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week, it could simply mean He is cutoff during the gap, which is still after 69 weeks, yet not during the 70th week.

All of that aside. How would you argue for no gaps in the 70 weeks if you at least agreed with me that every single thing mentioned in verse 27 is meaning during the 70th week? How could I possibly be wrong about there being a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks if verse 27 in it's entirety is meaning events during the 70th week? How would you get around that logic if verse 27 in it's entirety is meaning events during the 70th week? Why can't some of you at least entertain the idea in order to prove to me, that even if verse 27 was meaning in it's entirety, events during the 70th week, this still would mean there are no gaps anywhere in the 70 weeks?

You all have to keep in mind that my arguments are based on verse 27 in it's entirety is meaning events during the 70th week. Anyone who at least admitted it is meaning the 70th week, the entire verse, could not then logically argue for no gaps anywhere in the 70 weeks. Meaning no reasonable person could.

I never stated that every single thing that is prophesied in verse 27 will happen within one and the same week. We know from history that the prince/ruler who destroyed the city and the sanctuary did not destroy the city and the sanctuary inside of the 70 weeks prophesied by Daniel, and this is the case no matter what we believe about whether or not the Messiah was cut off in the midst of the week - and that destruction is an integral part of the 70 weeks prophecy.

So why did this destruction of city and sanctuary not occur within the first 69 weeks then, since it cannot occur again, and it cannot occur within the final week even if the final week got cut-n-pasted into the final seven years of the Age?

I believe it is the Messiah being spoken of in verse 27 where it's stated "he will confirm a covenant with many for 1 week, and will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease in the midst of the week". I believe the covenant which He confirmed is the New Covenant. I believe that is was a further 3.5 years after Calvary before the gospel began to be taken to the Gentiles and preached in the Gentile regions.

It's like this: In the same way that I cannot see how or why a different sort of 'thousand years' is meant in Revelation 20 other than the literal meaning, without the idea of the different sort of thousand years being mentally inserted into the text, so I cannot see how a different time for the final seven years can be derived from the text without mentally inserting the idea into the text. Amil in fact has a lot more scriptural support for Amil than anyone has for the cut-'n-paste job necessarily involved in ripping the 70th week out of the text of Daniel 9 and inserting it into the final seven years of the Age. I can't see that there is any scriptural support except interpreting vague New Testament scriptures in the light of the idea.

But that's just my mind. Not everyone thinks the same as I do, so I can't be right every time I think differently - but I also could be right. One day we will all know.

 

[Zao is life]

The world is certainly full of apathy.

It's not apathy. If I was apathetic I would agree with everything you say. Because that would be easier.

 

[Douggg]

It's not apathy. If I was apathetic I would agree with everything you say. Because that would be easier.

It's not apathy. If I was apathetic I would agree with everything you say. Because that would be easier.

You said all through your post #381 that you are just not interested in end times timelines.

Most of the world shares that lack of interest.

 

[Zao is life]

You said all through your post #381 that you are just not interested in end times timelines.

Most of the world shares that lack of interest.

Most of the world shares a lack of interest in prophecy and in the Revelation. To say that I'm apathetic because I disagree with you is a slur. By the same token you show apathy toward any view that disagrees with your own or with your timeline.

Prophecy is not supposed to make us attack one another with slurs whenever we don't agree. Nothing in the Bible is given for that purpose. It's no wonder it's prophesied that many are going to fall into apostasy before the man of sin is revealed.

 

[Douggg]

Most of the world shares a lack of interest in prophecy and in the Revelation. To say that I'm apathetic because I disagree with you is a slur.

And you were using your "no interest in" as a put down of my charts, a slur. And a slur of anyone who tries to put the end times events on a chart.

 

[Zao is life]

And you were using your "no interest in" as a put down of my charts, a slur. And a slur of anyone who tries to put the end times events on a chart.

You have repeatedly put your charts up in threads that I started, and in posts addressed to me. I've never complained, because you have the right to - and there's absolutely no slur in saying I disagree with your charts because I disagree with the way you interpret the scriptures that you base them on.

And this is exactly the reason I'm not interested in charts The prophetic scriptures contain signs, symbols, statements, prose and poetic language, not charts. I'm interested in what the scriptures say, not in charts. There's no slur in that. If charts were necessary the apostles would have drawn them for us and they would be in the scriptures - but you are drawing charts and asking that I interpret the scriptures which you base you charts on in the light of your charts, when I do not agree with your interpretation of some of those scriptures.

Not fair.

AND

end of this discussion for me.

 

[Douggg]

You have repeatedly put your charts up in threads that I started, and in posts addressed to me. I've never complained, because you have the right to - and there's absolutely no slur in saying I disagree with your charts because I disagree with the way you interpret the scriptures that you base them on.

The slur is not that you disagree with my charts - but that you imply that they have no value.

You want to say that you have no interest in end times timeline charts, but you don't want to accept that as being apathetic on your part toward end times timeline charts.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So do Premils, Pretribbers, Post-Tribbers, Mid-Tribbers, Post-Millennialists, Pretersists and Partial Preterists.

People who believe those doctrines believe there is one day that all of the dead will be raised and judged? No, not really.

For example, Revelation 20 speaks of people who had been beheaded and gives the reason why they had been beheaded. Revelation 13 speaks of the culprit responsible for their beheading. If that culprit is still to rise out of the abyss at the close of this Age, then the timing in respect of the thousand years, during which the beheaded are said to live and reign with Christ, is also given in Revelation 20 by virtue of the fact that the reason why they were beheaded is stated in Revelation 20. The statement in Revelation 20 regarding Satan being bound for a thousand years cannot be explained in terms of the many statements and warnings by Christ and His apostles regarding Satan and his current, past and ongoing activities in the world since Calvary till now.

The fact of the matter is there are seeming contradictions in scripture, as can be seen by the verses you quote - but we all know there are no contradictions in scripture and the reason why they appear to be contradictions, is because we don't know enough. None of us knows enough.

All of the people in the above list (and any other camp not listed with them) are intellectually honest in the way they and we see things. All are just as intellectually honest as Amils - and the Amils, as you pointed out, are intellectually honest because that 's the way they see things.

I didn't say otherwise.

We all tend to forget that we all have a common belief in someone who binds us all together by His Spirit, and we all need to be ashamed of ourselves with the way we speak to one another sometimes when we disagree regarding prophecy. Not saying that you did this in your post (because you did not) but it happens frequently enough in these boards.

Since I did not do that in that post then why are you saying this to me? I never lose sight of that fact that we do have our faith in Christ in common and that's the most important thing.

However, you have been as guilty as anyone with the rude way you have spoken to others at times. You do realize that, right?

Have you noticed that I have clicked Like or Agree on some of your posts lately? That means, despite your past rudeness, I understand that things get heated at times and we say things we shouldn't. But, I don't hold grudges. If you say something I agree with I'll say so or click the Like or Agree button on your post to indicate as such. If you say something I disagree with, I'll also say so. But, the goal should be to do so respectfully.

 

[Zao is life]

People who believe those doctrines believe there is one day that all of the dead will be raised and judged? No, not really.

I didn't say otherwise.

Since I did not do that in that post then why are you saying this to me? I never lose sight of that fact that we do have our faith in Christ in common and that's the most important thing.

However, you have been as guilty as anyone with the rude way you have spoken to others at times. You do realize that, right?

Have you noticed that I have clicked Like or Agree on some of your posts lately? That means, despite your past rudeness, I understand that things get heated at times and we say things we shouldn't. But, I don't hold grudges. If you say something I agree with I'll say so or click the Like or Agree button on your post to indicate as such. If you say something I disagree with, I'll also say so. But, the goal should be to do so respectfully.

Yes, I know I've also been guilty. That's why I said we should all be ashamed of ourselves. And the post wasn't directed at you as though you are the only poster at CF. It was directed generally at all the guilty, and none of the innocent (since there are some posters here who are not guilty of the charge, or at least I have not seen them make themselves guilty. I've never seen David PT resort to those tactics, for example).

 

[Zao is life]

The slur is not that you disagree with my charts - but that you imply that they have no value.

You want to say that you have no interest in end times timeline charts, but you don't want to accept that as being apathetic on your part toward end times timeline charts.

Charts have their value as an intellectual exercise for the people who create them.

I can't expect you to value any or every work I have created. For example, let's say I create a chart with a last-days timeline and when someone looks at it he completely disagrees with the chart and the timeline because he disagrees with my interpretations of the scriptures which form the basis of my chart.

My chart would no doubt have no value to many. That does not mean they are all apathetic about scripture and prophetic scripture. Your charts are valuable as an intellectual exercise and because of the time you took to create them.

 

[GooFYone]

Hi FotG, sorry but I found your post hard to follow. Would you mind summarizing it? I don't actually know what you're disagreeing with.

I’m thinking the same about yours. You are mentioning tribulations and such, yet who needs more?
We that believe in Jesus know that we are to be satisfied in all.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The slur is not that you disagree with my charts - but that you imply that they have no value.

You want to say that you have no interest in end times timeline charts, but you don't want to accept that as being apathetic on your part toward end times timeline charts.

Your charts have no value because they conflict with Scripture. That is why they should be rejected.

 

[FredVB]

Regardless of charts, Mystery Babylon which is full of offensive exploitation is not with stability to go on continuing, and its fall is drawing closer. There should be enough seen and learned to those of us who are believers to know we should not stay with it. We should get out of the city, even with other believers, as soon as we can manage it. We should live away from cities on land, growing things for ourselves, and those who will yet come to join with us, becoming independent from cities, where abuses will grow greater, and living without exploitation in a more stable sustainable way with subsistence of what we have there from what is growing.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I’m thinking the same about yours. You are mentioning tribulations and such, yet who needs more?
We that believe in Jesus know that we are to be satisfied in all.

Hi I like the idea of it all coming down to Jesus and the importance of faith and faith is based on evidence. God himself uses prophecy as a proof that He alone can declare the future and when Jesus rose from the dead and walked the two disciples he showed them all the scriptures about himself about how the Christ had to suffer die and be raised the 3rd day. I imagine when the LORD returns he will be able to show us all the passages regarding those things too. If the 1st coming is any indication it will be just as literal in the 2nd and with quite a few metaphors explained.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Your charts have no value because they conflict with Scripture. That is why they should be rejected.

Agreed.

 

[FredVB]

If Mystery Babylon is currently being occupied by believers on earth, which city is it?

Why ask which city is it? Theories of which one city is depicted have been out for a very long time, that those holding to one claim that to be the truth. Look at the exploitation shown to characterize Mystery Babylon, in Revelation 18. Is that the history of your city? Believers in Mystery Babylon fail to look at that, while observing what some say of their theory of which one city is Mystery Babylon. Doom coming to it is certain, they should look at their city, see the exploitation is not right, with harm to the world growing, and get out from that. Moving to another city is not meant, get out and live independently from cities of civilization. Do not wait for the last minute when it is clear as ever you need to get out from where believers should not be staying. Believers should do what they can to get out right away, now.

 

[keras]

Believers should do what they can to get out right away, now.

There is nowhere to go from the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
That Day will affect everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:34-36 We must pray for the strength to pass safely thru it.

Babylon is a metaphor for every ungodly city and nation. Which is all of them. When the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal event strikes, things will be very different. All as Prophesied.

Regarding a timeline or the sequence of future events, we are all under a Spirit of blindness and deafness. Only as things happen, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:18, Isaiah 32:3-4

 

[grafted branch]

Why ask which city is it? Theories of which one city is depicted have been out for a very long time, that those holding to one claim that to be the truth. Look at the exploitation shown to characterize Mystery Babylon, in Revelation 18. Is that the history of your city? Believers in Mystery Babylon fail to look at that, while observing what some say of their theory of which one city is Mystery Babylon. Doom coming to it is certain, they should look at their city, see the exploitation is not right, with harm to the world growing, and get out from that. Moving to another city is not meant, get out and live independently from cities of civilization. Do not wait for the last minute when it is clear as ever you need to get out from where believers should not be staying. Believers should do what they can to get out right away, now.

Well Revelation 18:2 says Babylon is fallen and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. This would have to include those in 2 Peter 2:4 where there are angels that sinned which were not spared but cast down into hell. So either Babylon falls into hell or the angels in hell, which were reserved unto judgment, come into Babylon.

How do you see this? Is Babylon in hell or is hell opened and the angels allowed to go into Babylon? Keep in mind that Revelation 18:4 says “come out of her my people” and this command is said after the fall of Babylon in verse 2.

One other question I have; what constitutes a city? From the 2020 census in the USA there are some very small cities.

McMullen Alabama, population 9
Bettles Alaska, population 12
Gilbert Arkansas, population 26
Vernon California, population 110

And how about Carbonate Colorado, population 0. Property owners in this area voted to have Carbonate continue as an incorporated town with hopes of restoring interest and having people move there someday.

If I were to leave the city I currently live in I certainly wouldn’t want to move into another Babylon, so how would a person know ahead of time if they were moving into another Babylon?