Change is Coming

[mkgal1]

About Isaiah 30 - and how the prophet saved Jerusalem:

Quoting article linked:
It was during Hezekiah’s rule that Isaiah rose to full prominence. Knowing the futility of confronting Assyria’s might, the prophet denounced those who “go down to Egypt without asking for my council, to take refuge in the protection of Pharaoh,” for such an overture would bring “neither help nor profit, but shame and grace” (Isaiah 30:2,5).


He was proven correct; around 701 B.C.E., the new Assyrian King Sennacherib (704–681 B.C.E.) led a powerful invasion force to suppress Judah’s revolt. The prism stone of Sennacherib, which details the king’s triumphs, states that “as for Hezekiah (ha-za-qi-a-u), he did not submit to my yoke.” The Assyrian juggernaut, propelled by scores of chariots, rams, and siege engines, proved unstoppable. “King Sennacherib of Assyria came up against all the fortified cities of Judah and captured them,” the second Book of Kings notes regretfully (II Kings 18:13).

Chastened, Hezekiah rushed to appease the Assyrian king. He ransacked the Temple to come up with a ransom, and gave Sennacherib “all the silver that was found in the house of the Lord” (II Kings18:15). But Sennacherib wasn’t interested in money; he wanted Jerusalem itself.

In panic, Hezekiah turned to Isaiah. What should he do? Do nothing, replied Isaiah; “by the way that he came, by the same he shall return; he shall not come into this city” (II Kings 19:33). And indeed, Sennacherib’s siege of Jerusalem failed.

The reason for this failure has never been convincingly established. The second Book of Kings explains that “the angel of the Lord set out and struck down” 185,000 soldiers in the Assyrian camp (II Kings 19:35). Scholars have interpreted this as an indication that Sennacherib’s soldiers must have contracted some kind of disease. Whatever the case may be, the siege was lifted, and Sennacherib returned to Assyria. But Judah lay in ruins.
~ Prophet Isaiah's predictions saved Jerusalem. Here’s how.​

 

[keras]

You assume its meant to be taken 'literally'

Isaiah 30:26 is a clear description of something that is quite possible to literally happen, why think otherwise?
I have to think that many people are so in denial of any change, they resort to flat out denial of plain scripture.
The last few years before Jesus Returns, will be very hard for them. To be aware of what God has planned is a far better way to be.

 

[keras]

What *meaningful* message comes from catastrophic natural occurrences like what you're describing?

There are more than 100 Bible prophesies about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Shouldn't we know what the Lord plans to do?
We should NOT be in the dark about what must happen. 1 Thess 5:4

I can't understand how gleaning spiritual messages - as to what I quoted earlier, by Matthew Henry - is "meaningless"?

If you hang your beliefs on what the Commentators said, then you are no better off than believing the lying preachers of today.
Daniel 12:4 says the Prophetic word is to be kept secret until the time of the end. How could Matthew Henry, b 1662- d 1714, possibly know what the Prophets meant?

 

[robycop3]

It is you who will be sorry when disaster strikes and you don't know what to do.

No, the New heavens and the New Earth do not come until after the Millennium.
Before that, many prophesies tell of a regenerated and prosperous holy Land, where all the faithful Christian peoples will live.

Jesus surely was referring to us. The people who will see it all happen.
What the generation of those Jews in the first century saw, was their practical demise and the survivors carried off into slavery.
Do you think that we won't see dramatic changes? Will the world just carry on like it is now forever?

There has always been change and judging from the current world situation, that could be very soon and very bad for many people. Isaiah 66:18b-21, 2 Peter 3:7
But as Christians, Bible prophecy should be our guide. Read it and understand what the Lord Plans to do to correct His Creation.

I agree with much of this, except that I believe the next major sign that "the end" is near will be the coming of the "beast/antichrist" to power. The coming of this man was first prophesied to Daniel, and was elaborated upon by Paul, & finally, in the Revelation.

The term "beast" is used for both this man and his empire.

Another sign that could come before the 'beast' would be the Jews building a new temple in Jerusalem. That'll be necessary for the beast to commit the "abomination of desolation" by setting up his statue in that temple & declaring himself to be God.

And the "Gog-Magog" war against Israel will be led by Russia. The 'beast' will have brokered a deal in which both Israel & her enemies will disarm; israel will become "a land of unwalled villages". But the HATRED will still be smoldering underneath. So, the Moslem nations involved will offer trillians of their petro $$ to Russia, which is cash-strapped right now, but still heavily-armed, to secretly re-arm them & lead them in an attack upon Israel, whom they believe will be defenseless. All this will happen swiftly, before the 'beast' can act.

 

[mkgal1]

Daniel 12:4 says the Prophetic word is to be kept secret until the time of the end. How could Matthew Henry, b 1662- d 1714, possibly know what the Prophets meant?

.....and just prior to 70 AD this was written:

Revelation 22:10 - Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near.​

The "time of the end" of the Old Covenant age (which is what I believe that is referring to) is past....it has been fulfilled.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

.....and just prior to 70 AD this was written:

Revelation 22:10 - Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near.​

The "time of the end" of the Old Covenant age (which is what I believe that is referring to) is past....it has been fulfilled.

Hello mkgal and good post.
I am posting a lot on the CT board as a lot of threads I either start or post on could be considered "unorthodox" on this board, especially with my rather "controversial" view of 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation.

The Lake of Fire,Gehenna, Tartarus are my favorite topics to discuss right now, and there appears to be more members posting on that board than here.......
Pop on over.........

What about 2 Peter 2:4 "Tartarus"

The Lake Of Fire

GEHENNA<G1067> "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon/Slaughter" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There are more than 100 Bible prophesies about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Shouldn't we know what the Lord plans to do?
We should NOT be in the dark about what must happen. 1 Thess 5:4
If you hang your beliefs on what the Commentators said, then you are no better off than believing the lying preachers of today.
Daniel 12:4 says the Prophetic word is to be kept secret until the time of the end. How could Matthew Henry, b 1662- d 1714, possibly know what the Prophets meant?

Hello Keras.
That is a bold statement concerning "lying preachers". Can you name a few of them?

 

[keras]

The "time of the end" of the Old Covenant age (which is what I believe that is referring to) is past....it has been fulfilled.

But the end did not come in 70-135 AD. Not even to the Jews, as they have recovered their nation.
Preterist beliefs leave a person clueless about what God has planned for our future. Not advisable or even sensible.

Hello Keras.
That is a bold statement concerning "lying preachers". Can you name a few of them?

John Hagee would be about the top of the list, but another 'wolf in sheeps clothing' is David Jeremiah. He does preach very 'nice' sermons, with much truth in them. But he promotes the pre-trib 'rapture to heaven'; a lie of the first magnitude.
Also Charles Stanley, who promotes 'once saved, always saved', another easily refuted unscriptural doctrine.

 

[mkgal1]

But the end did not come in 70-135 AD. Not even to the Jews, as they have recovered their nation.

The end didn't come? Do you see the old temple religious system - complete with a temple - in operation in Jerusalem today?

Slapping a name on a geographic location (at least in my mind) doesn't equate to anyone "recovering THEIR nation". It was never theirs to begin with - but God's (is the point I recognize from the covenant).

 

[keras]

Slapping a name on a geographic location (at least in my mind) doesn't equate to anyone "recovering THEIR nation". It was never theirs to begin with - but God's

And God gave the holy Land to Abraham and his descendants.
Who are they today? Galatians 3:26-29

But we Christians have yet to take possession of our heritage, it is currently occupied by the secular Jews and the evil neighbors. Soon to all be uprooted. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:24-26

The Jewish State of Israel is undoubtedly a miracle of God, they even speak their ancient language. They HAVE recovered their nation status, they HAVE blossomed and prospered.

As for the Temple and the sacrifices, they were stopped in 70 AD, but Judaism continued. The end of this age will come when Jesus Returns.

 

[parousia70]

You are still wrong; the final 7 years begins sometime between 2018 and 2028,

Have you always believed this?

Or back in 1960 or 1970 when you believed and professed these things at that time were “near and at the doors” did you believe they were coming sooner?

I’ve marked this post and will comment again on it on 1/1/2029 if, God willing, I’m still alive in 9.5 years.
I hope good health for you as well keras so you will be around to respond.

 

[parousia70]

Is Revelation meant to be taken 100% literally?

Anybody who places the events of Revelation Into our future demonstrably does NOT take the book 100% literally.

 

[mkgal1]

And God gave the holy Land to Abraham and his descendants.
Who are they today? Galatians 3:26-29

But we Christians have yet to take possession of our heritage, it is currently occupied by the secular Jews and the evil neighbors. Soon to all be uprooted. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:24-26

The Jewish State of Israel is undoubtedly a miracle of God, they even speak their ancient language. They HAVE recovered their nation status, they HAVE blossomed and prospered.

As for the Temple and the sacrifices, they were stopped in 70 AD, but Judaism continued. The end of this age will come when Jesus Returns.

No, Keras.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

keras said: ↑
The scriptures I post speak for themselves. Plain Words like: The Lord will send fire to destroy His enemies. Amos 1 for example and 2 Peter 3:7.
That you can't see or understand them is your problem. Explained to us in Isaiah 29:9-12, how those who choose to believe false theories and doctrines will be made incapable of knowing what the Lord has planned.

You interpret those words to mean things that 'you' think they mean....Sola Flare etc etc.

I dont see that. Scripture is being misinterpreted again and again.
Is Revelation meant to be taken 100% literally?

Anybody who places the events of Revelation Into our future demonstrably does NOT take the book 100% literally.

You are still wrong; the final 7 years begins sometime between 2018 and 2028, 70 to 80 years after 1948.
I repeat that it will be 7 years before Jesus Returns, which will be 2000 years after He commenced His earthly Ministry. But before that final 7 year time, much must happen to set things up for it as prophesied.
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, a forthcoming worldwide disaster will be the commencement of it all.

According to my bro Josephus and our Lord Jesus, the start of the final 7 yrs began in
66ad and ended with Masada in 73ad........

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66

The Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD) - Romans at the Gates (Part 1/4)
The Siege of Jerusalem stands out as one of the most brutal examples of Classical Era total war since the fall of Carthage over 200 years earlier! In part 1 we discuss the lead up to the siege as well as the details of the attacking and defending forces.

=================================
Proof: The Temple Mount is Not @ Dome of the Rock

Perhaps the author of them didn't study more on the placements of the 70ad structures? [Unlike today, there were no cameras back then to take pictures]
That aside, I believe he was inspired to make them as was Josephus inspired to write about it.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled, few, perhaps, are so interesting in themselves, or so striking in their accomplishment, as those which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the signal calamities which every where befel the Jewish nation. The chief of our Lord's predictions, relative to these events, are contained in Matt. 24 ch. Mark, 13 ch., Luke 21 ch., Ib. 19 ch. 41-44 ; Ib. 23 ch. 27-30 : and we may with confidence appeal to the facts which verify them as conclusive and incontrovertible proofs of the divinity of his mission.
Before, however, we enter upon this illustration, it may be gratifying to the reader, and add considerably to the interest of many of the subsequent pages, to give in this place a brief description of that renowned city and its temple...............
======================================
"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century Judea
All 3 mention "the End".
Matt 24:8 and Mark 13:8 has "All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
Some versions leave out "pestilences" in Matt 24:7.
===========================
Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

This site is best as far as showing the history of 7 yr Jewish Wars in the 1st century [up to Masada in 73ad]:

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
===========================
This video shows the events that led to the Jewish Revolts/War:


Invicta Published on Dec 12, 2016

The Siege of Jerusalem stands out as one of the most brutal examples of Classical Era total war since the fall of Carthage over 200 years earlier! In part 1 we discuss the lead up to the siege as well as the details of the attacking and defending forces.

==================================
I like this version of Josephus and the Destruction of Jerusalem and those 70ad videos appear to follow this version fairly well, IMHO.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY: INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS
So far as they tend to verify OUR LORD'S PREDICTIONS Relative to that event.

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
=========================

Invicta Published on Feb 4, 2017

The Siege of Jerusalem continues to prove that the Jews are always one step ahead of the Romans with clever tactics and bold attacks! In part 2 we follow the legions as they push through two of the outermost defensive layers and almost face defeat.

The Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD) - The Fight for the Walls (Part 2/4)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

.....and just prior to 70 AD this was written:

Revelation 22:10 - Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near.​

The "time of the end" of the Old Covenant age (which is what I believe that is referring to) is past....it has been fulfilled.

The end didn't come? Do you see the old temple religious system - complete with a temple - in operation in Jerusalem today?

Slapping a name on a geographic location (at least in my mind) doesn't equate to anyone "recovering THEIR nation". It was never theirs to begin with - but God's (is the point I recognize from the covenant).

 

[keras]

Have you always believed this?

Or back in 1960 or 1970 when you believed and professed these things at that time were “near and at the doors” did you believe they were coming sooner?

Yes I have. Have you seen the timeline? I have posted it several times.
It is the events preceding the glorious Return that I thought would happen sooner than now. Specifically the next prophesied event, as is made clear by how Jesus stopped in His quote of Isaiah 61:1-2a. The terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the world changer that will happen at the moment Iran and all the Islamic peoples start to attack Israel.

As it is now, with only 11-12 years left of this Church age, what must happen will happen rather quickly.
Prepare for dramatic things and stand strong in your faith!

 

[keras]

According to my bro Josephus and our Lord Jesus, the start of the final 7 yrs began in
66ad and ended with Masada in 73ad........

According to the Bible prophets, incl Jesus; the events of Daniels Seventh 'week' remain unfulfilled. Revelation 8:2, the 7 Trumpets and Rev 15:1, the 7 Bowls.
These depict world wide effects, not a localized conquest of a people who rose in rebellion against the Roman power of that time.

 

[mkgal1]

According to the Bible prophets, incl Jesus; the events of Daniels Seventh 'week' remain unfulfilled.

With this belief - the work of salvation is left incomplete until the future.

 

[parousia70]

Yes I have. Have you seen the timeline? I have posted it several times.

Wait... so back in 1960 you believed and professed that all these things would take place between 2018 and 2029? 60-70 years later?

And you, at that time, also believed and taught they were “At hand, about to take place, coming soon”?
So for you, when you say something is coming soon, we should take that to mean as far away as 70 years.
Got it.

It is the events preceding the glorious Return that I thought would happen sooner

How could you have been so wrong about that?

Were you absolutely certain that could’ve happened sooner back then? If so, How can you trust your own judgment at this point?

That’s a genuine question.

If I believed in professed something was going to happen in a certain timeframe and it didn’t, I typically wouldn’t just move the goalposts each time my prediction failed. I would reflect on how I could’ve been so wrong and would take a step Back And reassess everything I believed and taught.

But that’s just me. I guess you’re so confident in yourself that you could be 100% wrong one, two, three or even 10 times, and still have 100% confidence you’ll be right the next time.

Wow.

 

[keras]

Wait... so back in 1960 you believed and professed that all these things would take place between 2018 and 2029? 60-70 years later?

And you, at that time, also believed and taught they were “At hand, about to take place, coming soon”?
So for you, when you say something is coming soon, we should take that to mean as far away as 70 years.

No. It was back in 2012 that I thought the end times events would commence. Jesus will Return exactly 2000 years after His first Advent. As He said in Luke 13:32 and confirmed in Hosea 6:2.
It was always the commencement of the end times events, that I said would be 'soon'.

How could you have been so wrong about that?

I read all the prophesied things that must happen before the Return and thought that 18-20 years was needed to fulfil them.
They now must occur in a much shorter time, but still quite feasible.

Were you absolutely certain that could’ve happened sooner back then? If so, How can you trust your own judgment at this point?

Yes I was. I was wrong, but just in the timing, not in what I have consistently posted of what the Lord has planned.

What I trust is that God will do what He told His prophets He would do and the next thing will be a dramatic world changer of a similar magnitude as Noah's Flood.

If the prophecies do not happen as described, [allegories and metaphors explained by the Bible or modern knowledge] then how can we trust the Bible for anything?