Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

[Markusanthem]

Understand why Christians use the term "Tribulation" for the last 7 years, because it is a one time event and it is the Tribulation of all tribulations ...

Based on what?

There's no scripture that backs up that idea.

It is ficticious. It is erroneous.

Why believe something that God didn't teach?

There is no scripture that says the tribulation lasts seven years. That is absolutely wrong.

God did say when the tribulation starts and when it ends.

God did say when wrath begins and how it ends.

 

[watchfulChristian]

obviously not because Jesus said the tribulation ends before the 6th seal.

He never said that. He said wrath begins after the 6th Seal. Thusly, the 7th Seal which contains the 7 trumpets is the wrath and more specifically the bowls of wrath will occur in the last 24 months of the 7 years.

 

[Markusanthem]

God never made a distinction between the 7 year Tribulation and wrath.

You're making mutually exclusive the tribulation of the saints with the 7 year Tribulation.

God never said there is a 7 year tribulation.

Do you get that?

GOD NEVER SAID THERE IS A 7 YEAR TRIBULATION.

It is fiction, a lie. God never said it.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Based on what?

There's no scripture that backs up that idea.

It is ficticious. It is erroneous.

Why believe something that God didn't teach?

There is no scripture that says the tribulation lasts seven years. That is absolutely wrong.

God did say when the tribulation starts and when it ends.

God did say when wrath begins and how it ends.

Sure it's backed. This is the 70th seven and within that are the 1260 days repeated over and over, and the Antichrist who reigns in the 3rd Temple during that time (2 Thess. 2.4).

All Daniel's seven are 2,520 days each, so is the 70th seven.

 

[watchfulChristian]

None of the 70 sevens are cut up like you cut up the 70th seven.

Each of the sevens is a unit of 2,520 days each.

 

[Markusanthem]

He never said that. He said wrath begins after the 6th Seal. Thusly, the 7th Seal which contains the 7 trumpets is the wrath and more specifically the bowls of wrath will occur in the last 24 months of the 7 years.

Ok, lets try it this way:

What does Jesus say happens in this verse when the tribulation is over:

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

What happens, according to our Lord and Savior, immediately after the tribulation?

 

[Markusanthem]

Sure it's backed. This is the 70th seven and within that are the 1260 days repeated over and over, and the Antichrist who reigns in the 3rd Temple during that time (2 Thess. 2.4).

All Daniel's seven are 2,520 days each, so is the 70th seven.

The 70 weeks have nothing to do with the tribulation. There is no scripture that even puts them together.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Ok, lets try it this way:

What does Jesus say happens in this verse when the tribulation is over:

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

What happens, according to our Lord and Savior, immediately after the tribulation?

Matt. 24.29 is at the end of the 7 year Tribulation: "those days".

The 7 year Tribulation is marked with a unique solar and lunar eclipse before (Rev. 6.12) and darkening at the end (Matt. 24.29).

God demarcates the Tribulation by signs in the front and end of the 7 year Trib.

 

[watchfulChristian]

The 70 weeks have nothing to do with the tribulation. There is no scripture that even puts them together.

The 70th week is the Tribulation. I gave you lots of verses that puts them together.

 

[watchfulChristian]

What is comprised in "those days"? Matt. 24.15 of the Antichrist during the 70th seven.

 

[Markusanthem]

Matt. 24.29 is at the end of the 7 year Tribulation: "those days".

The 7 year Tribulation is marked with a unique solar and lunar eclipse before (Rev. 6.12) and darkening at the end (Matt. 24.29).

God demarcates the Tribulation by signs in the front and end of the 7 year Trib.

Ok, since you refuse to answer the question, lets start again.

When did Jesus say the tribulation began and what did Jesus say happens immediately after the tribulation? I will underline it for you.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

 

[Markusanthem]

What is comprised in "those days"? Matt. 24.15 of the Antichrist during the 70th seven.

Jesus said the false christs and false prophets do their false miracles after the tribulation is cut short.

Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

 

[NumberOneSon]

It's amazing how two people can read the same passages and come to completely different conclusions, all the while claiming that their viewpoint is "clear".

 

[Markusanthem]

It's amazing how two people can read the same passages and come to completely different conclusions.

It happens when a person starts with a false assumption.

In this case, the false assumption is that the abomination of desolation is the antichrist.

The abomination of desolation, according to Daniel 11, is referring to the desolation of Israel until the time of the end.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Ok, since you refuse to answer the question, lets start again.

When did Jesus say the tribulation began and what did Jesus say happens immediately after the tribulation? I will underline it for you.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

Notice the "Great Trib" (Matt. 24.21). "Those days" (v.29). Then Jesus returns.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Jesus said the false christs and false prophets do their false miracles after the tribulation is cut short.

Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

There are false Christs in Matt. 24.5 too so verse 23 & 24 are in the context within "those days" (v.22) of the Tribulation of 2,520 days.

 

[Markusanthem]

Notice the "Great Trib" (Matt. 24.21). "Those days" (v.29). Then Jesus returns.

Notice the abomination of desolation (of Israel), the great tribulation, the great tribulation cut short, the darkening of sun/moon, and the rise of the false christs/false prophets/false miracles.

That is the order that Jesus gave in Matthew 24.

That is why Jesus said the tribulation is over before wrath begins.

 

[watchfulChristian]

It's amazing how two people can read the same passages and come to completely different conclusions, all the while claiming that their viewpoint is "clear".

Indeed. Hence the "little flock" (Luke 12.32) is really little. Perhaps the savings ratio is only 1 in 100 to 1 in 300 souls given the size of the New City. I happen to be one of those.

 

[NumberOneSon]

It happens when a person starts with a false assumption.

But who determines which one of you is starting with the false assumption? You obviously think it is WatchfulChristian, while WC will simply say it is you. And round and round it goes.

 

[Markusanthem]

But who determines which one of you is starting with the false assumption? You obviously think it is WatchfulChristian, while WC will simply say it is you. And round and round it goes.

The Bible.