• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
It happens when a person starts with a false assumption.

In this case, the false assumption is that the abomination of desolation is the antichrist.

The abomination of desolation, according to Daniel 11, is referring to the desolation of Israel until the time of the end.
Dan. 11 is not referring to the Antichrist specifically, so why did you assume Christians assume this? Dan. 11 is about Antiochus.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
Notice the abomination of desolation (of Israel), the great tribulation, the great tribulation cut short, the darkening of sun/moon, and the rise of the false christs/false prophets/false miracles.

That is the order that Jesus gave in Matthew 24.

That is why Jesus said the tribulation is over before wrath begins.
Jesus never said the Tribulation is over when the wrath begins. The Tribulation is the wrath period. After the wrath Jesus returns.

2 Thess. 2.4 Antichrist is in the Temple during the Great Trib.
 
Upvote 0
M

Markusanthem

Guest
Dan. 11 is not referring to the Antichrist specifically, so why did you assume Christians assume this? Dan. 11 is about Antiochus.


No, the abomination of desolation does not refer to the antichrist, and it never did.

The abomination of desolation refers to the armies' desolation of Israel - until the time of the end - because that's what it actually said.

Antiochus didn't do that.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
But who determines which one of you is starting with the false assumption? You obviously think it is WatchfulChristian, while WC will simply say it is you. And round and round it goes.
Let the evidence speak.

70th seven is 2,520 days also like all 69 sevens, thus, the Great Trib is 1260.
 
Upvote 0
M

Markusanthem

Guest
Jesus never said the Tribulation is over when the wrath begins. The Tribulation is the wrath period. After the wrath Jesus returns.

I already quoted you Jesus' own words. The tribulation ends immediately followed by the sun/moon/stars/shaking which is the 6th seal when it actually says wrath is beginning.



2 Thess. 2.4 Antichrist is in the Temple during the Great Trib.

No, he's there during the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
No, the abomination of desolation does not refer to the antichrist, and it never did.

The abomination of desolation refers to the armies' desolation of Israel - until the time of the end - because that's what it actually said.

Antiochus didn't do that.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
The abomination of desolation is specifically the image of the Antichrist erected by the False Prophet.

Dan. 11 is about Antiochus. You're confused.
 
Upvote 0
M

Markusanthem

Guest
The abomination of desolation is specifically the image of the Antichrist erected by the False Prophet.

Dan. 11 is about Antiochus. You're confused.

Did Antiochus Epiphanes desolate Israel until the time of the end? No, the Romans did.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
I already quoted you Jesus' own words. The tribulation ends immediately followed by the sun/moon/stars/shaking which is the 6th seal when it actually says wrath is beginning.
The 6th Seal is before the Tribulation starts just before that wrath.

No, he's there during the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord.
That's right the Antichrist is during the Day of the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
Sure, the 70th seven is just like all the other sevens.

The Bible does not say the great tribulation is seven years long - anywhere!
The Bible says the Great Tribulation is 1260 days. the Tribulation is 7 years. The 2nd half of the Tribulation is the Great Trib.
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
Did Antiochus Epiphanes desolate Israel until the time of the end? No, the Romans did.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Dan. 11 starts off about Antiochus but then deals with the Antichrist in its latter verses. "Then at the time of the end, the..." (v.40).
 
Upvote 0

watchfulChristian

Regular Member
May 19, 2012
219
1
✟379.00
Faith
Christian
"And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt-offering, and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate" (Dan. 11.31). How this coincides indeed with chapter 9. "I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half, and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. . . . And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest, and shall stand in thy lot, at the end of the days" (12.7,11-13). Here we see again the three and a half years’ time. One thousand two hundred and ninety days is thirty days more than three and a half years, and a thousand three hundred and thirty-five days is forty-five days more than one thousand two hundred and ninety days. As the three years and a half (1260 days) come to an end, the Lord Jesus will appear on earth. The thirty more days will probably be used to judge the nations (see Matt. 25.31-46), or to cleanse the sanctuary. But after another forty-five days the children of Israel will receive glory.

From the above investigation, we come to know a few things: (1) the time of the Gentiles—that is to say, the time when the Gentiles rule—will come to a sudden end, for One who looks like the Son of man will come with the clouds and set up His kingdom; (2) the last of the Gentile power will be the Roman empire, and its king will speak blasphemously against God and wear out the saints, but he will eventually be judged; (3) the Antichrist will make a covenant with the Jews, and in their unbelief, the latter will restore the sanctuary and its sacrifices; (4) but that after three years and a half, the Antichrist will break the covenant, cause the offering up of sacrifices to cease, and will introduce idolatry; (5) for this reason, desolation will continue to the end of the predetermined period of three and one-half years, and then God will deliver His holy people; and finally (6) the time of the Gentile kingdoms will come to its end with the sudden coming of the Lord from heaven to establish His own kingdom. We have not attempted with any degree of pressure to expound the above Scriptures to suit our own theory, but all we wish to do is to point Scripture to Scripture. We have noticed how the three and a half years of the little horn (ch. 7) fit perfectly with the latter half of the seventieth seven (ch. 9), and also with the three years and a half to be found in chapter 12. And so, the Scriptural prophecies spoken earlier and later agree completely with each other, except that the later prophecy does at times explain the former one or adds to what the former one had not said.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
M

Markusanthem

Guest
Dan. 11 starts off about Antiochus but then deals with the Antichrist in its latter verses. "Then at the time of the end, the..." (v.40).

Antiochus Epiphanes did not desolate Israel until the time of the end.


31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
 
Upvote 0
M

Markusanthem

Guest
"And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt-offering, and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate" (Dan. 11.31). How this coincides indeed with chapter 9. "I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half, and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. . . . And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest, and shall stand in thy lot, at the end of the days" (12.7,11-13). Here we see again the three and a half years’ time. One thousand two hundred and ninety days is thirty days more than three and a half years, and a thousand three hundred and thirty-five days is forty-five days more than one thousand two hundred and ninety days. As the three years and a half (1260 days) come to an end, the Lord Jesus will appear on earth. The thirty more days will probably be used to judge the nations (see Matt. 25.31-46), or to cleanse the sanctuary. But after another forty-five days the children of Israel will receive glory.
From the above investigation, we come to know a few things: (1) the time of the Gentiles—that is to say, the time when the Gentiles rule—will come to a sudden end, for One who looks like the Son of man will come with the clouds and set up His kingdom; (2) the last of the Gentile power will be the Roman empire, and its king will speak blasphemously against God and wear out the saints, but he will eventually be judged; (3) the Antichrist will make a covenant with the Jews, and in their unbelief, the latter will restore the sanctuary and its sacrifices; (4) but that after three years and a half, the Antichrist will break the covenant, cause the offering up of sacrifices to cease, and will introduce idolatry; (5) for this reason, desolation will continue to the end of the predetermined period of three and one-half years, and then God will deliver His holy people; and finally (6) the time of the Gentile kingdoms will come to its end with the sudden coming of the Lord from heaven to establish His own kingdom. We have not attempted with any degree of pressure to expound the above Scriptures to suit our own theory, but all we wish to do is to point Scripture to Scripture. We have noticed how the three and a half years of the little horn (ch. 7) fit perfectly with the latter half of the seventieth seven (ch. 9), and also with the three years and a half to be found in chapter 12. And so, the Scriptural prophecies spoken earlier and later agree completely with each other, except that the later prophecy does at times explain the former one or adds to what the former one had not said.


Yikes - wall of text...
 
Upvote 0