• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Catholics, why is it necessary to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Ecclesiastian, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Your putting modern ideas on ancient people. You think they were both young but no where does it say that St. Joseph was young and they would have been siblings through marriage. Christians have believed from the beginning that the Blessed Mother was ever virgin and that did nor change until after the reformation 1500 years later
     
  2. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    I said always a virgin. I certainly believe she was until Jesus' birth
     
  3. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    The Bible says they slept together. "He did not know her until she brought forth her first born son" Sex and further children all but stated right there
     
  4. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,310
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    If Jesus was born from a man then he would not be born from the spirit of God and not the son of God.

    That is one thing cleared up

    Second thing is all sin, even Mary, she was with out sin and perfect before conception, but after his birth, She sinned just as all people do.

    When she bore Jesus she was young and shielded and loved the lord.

    We need to look at this as a real life event as it was.

    With real people who lived in a sin filled world and are all corrupted into it one day in there life.

    And also no where does it say she never sinned.
     
  5. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

    256
    +75
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Let's begin with Mary and this Roman Catholic idea of 'theotokos' and compare it to scripture:

    "Mother of Jesus", or a 'theotokos'???

    Let us take a look at the scriptural (KJB) “Mary” [Matthew 1:16,18,20, 2:11, 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:27,30,34,38,39,41,46,56, 2:5,16,19,34; Acts 1:14], “the mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14; see also “his mother” - Matthew 1:18, 2:11; Luke 2:34,43; John 19:25; and “mother” - also John 6:42] who was “espoused to Joseph”.

    We are going to look at the scriptures in what they themselves have to say about her and what they do not say about her, for there is at this time a persistent theology which pervades much of the Christian world which claims to have support [from the Bible] for an idea that has been defined and termed as: “theotokos” [literally “God-Bearer”, or “one who gives birth to God” and/or also loosely given as “Mother of God”; being a “title”].

    Let us look very closely at the scriptures to see if this “title” is accurate or is instead dangerous.

    The first question that should be asked is this, “Is the “title” “theotokos” ever itself given anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back to us as a plain, “No.” Though not convincing in and of itself, let us remember this “silence” and come back to this point later.

    The next question that should be asked is this, “Is Mary ever called by the appellation or designated with the title of “Mother of God” [“God” being the English for the Greek [Tr.] word “Theos”] anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back as before to us as a plain, “No.” Again not convincing in and of itself, but let us again remember also this “silence” and come back to this point later.

    Let us now consider a few statements by the Roman Catholic theological position and teaching on this subject of the “theotokos”, for it is said that:

    "… Elizabeth is the first to call Mary by her most honourable title "Mother of God …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “The Visitation”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary

    It is taught by outward (catechumen) Catholicism that she is not the 'mother of divinity' (well and good), yet there is more said inwardly by the dogma, with hints all over the place at something more, and even openly stated with more:

    "… As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. … Theotokos …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “Mary's divine motherhood”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary

    Let us look at the first quote again and ask yet another question. “Did Elizabeth [the cousin of Mary] ever call Mary by the “title” “Mother of God” in any part of the Scriptures?” Search as we will yet again, and the answer yet comes back to us as a plain, “No.”

    Where then does the Roman Catholic theological position obtain the slightest ground from Scripture to say that Elizabeth says such?

    Luke 1:43 is quoted, so we had better be careful to look at it:

    Luke 1:43 KJB - And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    Luke 1:43 GNT TR - και ποθεν μοι τουτο ινα ελθη η μητηρ του κυριου μου προς με

    Luke 1:43 Stephen's 1550 TR kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

    Luke 1:43 Byzantine Majority TR - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

    Luke 1:43 Alexandrian Greek - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV eme Luke 1:43

    Luke 1:43 Douay Rheims - And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    Luke 1:43 Clementine Vulgate - Et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me?

    Does the text read from the English or Tr. Greek that Mary was designated with the “title” “Mother of God” by Elizabeth? [Remember, we are looking for the words “mhthr tou theou mou” [Theos/God].]

    The text obviously does not read the way it is claimed [intimated] that it does, for it plainly reads, “...mhthr tou kuriou mou...” [“...mother of my Lord...”]. This passage is supposed to be the strongest support pillar upholding the “theotokos” theological position, yet the pillar is non-existent, as is the word “theou”.

    Since “The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” [Psalms 12:6] and “All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” [2 Timothy 3:16] and “...the scripture cannot be broken...” [John 10:35;p] and we are admonished to “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” [Proverbs 30:6], it then behooves us to take special and careful attention to then heed what the words plainly say without having to add anything to them.

    As we have seen by the Scriptures, Mary is called the “mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14] but never once designated with the “title” “mother of God”.

    Titles carry weight. For instance, Jesus is called “the Son of Man” and “the Son of God”, among many others, and in scripture these “titles” relate something extremely important. Jesus has two natures, first, that of “God” being unborrowed, underived and having eternal life with Himself, as the Scripture says of His Divinity, “... without mother ...” [Hebrews 7:3;p]; “...from everlasting...” [Micah 5:2;p etc] even “...to everlasting...” [Psalms 90:2;p etc] and also eternally existing with the “Father” [ref: John 1:1, 17:5] and “Holy Spirit” before all things. Secondly, at the moment of His incarnation and from then on, eternally, that of “man”.

    To give the title “mother of God” to Mary is unbiblical, and she herself would have never have wanted it, being the humble handmaiden and servant of God. Many women, who believed in scripture, were blessed (Genesis 1:22, etc).

    Some may quote:

    Luke 11:27 KJB - And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

    However, what did Jesus say in reply to this?

    He says, “yea rather...” and drew everyone's attention to the “word of God” instead and that they should “keep it”:

    Luke 11:28 KJB - But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

    Jesus just shut down all exaltation of Mary, and exalted the word of God, as prophesied He would:

    Psalms 138:2 KJB - I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

    Jesus never sought to draw anyone's attention to Mary, but rather to Himself:
    Isaiah 45:22 KJB - Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    Psalms 98:3 KJB - He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

    John 12:32 KJB - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    They take glory which belongs to Jesus alone "full of grace" and try to give to to this woman.

    Jesus also later directly asks so that there was no confusion regarding His mission, "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?" (Matthew 12:48; Mark 3:33)

    Jesus tells us the answer to the question, "And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!" (Matthew 12:49; Mark 3:34)

    What does even the Angel Gabriel say in the Gospel of Luke?

    Gabriel says of Mary, "... Mary: for thou hast found favour with God." (Luke 1:30) [many have found favour with God, for He is gracious, merciful, loving]

    Gabriel says of Jesus, "...holy thing..." (Luke 1:35) (Compare Acts 4:27,30, "Holy Child Jesus")

    What does Mary herself say?

    Mary says of herself: "...Behold the handmaid of the Lord..." (Luke 1:38)

    (""handmaid", "doulē", "δούλη", female - servant, slave, bondmaid, handmaid" (Strong's Concordance)),

    "...My soul doth magnify the Lord..." (Luke 1:46) and "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden..." (Luke 1:48)

    ("low estate", "tapeinōsis", "ταπείνωσις", lowness, low estate, spiritual abasement, lamenting of moral littleness and guilt (Strong's Concordance))

    Notice, of “moral littleness and guilt”.

    What does Mary say of God, "...he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy (is) his name." (Luke 1:48).

    1. We see that it is God who is great (Luke 1:32), not Mary.

    2. We see that it is He that has accomplished (Luke 1:35, 'power of the Highest'), not Mary.

    3. We see that it is God/Jesus that is Holy (Luke 1:35,48, 'that holy thing'; 'holy (is) his name'), not Mary.

    4. We see that it is God that is magnified (Luke 1:46; 'My soul doth magnify the Lord'), not Mary.

    5. We see that it is God who is exalted (Luke 1:32-33; 'of his kingdom there shall be no end'), and not Mary.

    Mary declares her low position while glorifying God in all things. Not once is she designated, 'mother of God' and not once is she called 'Holy Mary', but rather it is Christ Jesus, God the Father, Holy Ghost who are all explicitly called "Holy".

    Mary specifically says that Jesus Christ is her 'Saviour', which means she was a sinner in need of salvation like everyone else:

    "...my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." (Luke 1:47) and we see that this is in the very context of her “moral littleness and guilt” [vs 48].
     
  6. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    That does not mean they slept together, once again you are putting modern ideas into antiquity. So no it does not state it right there
     
  7. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Orthodox not Catholic, you hatred for Catholicism is vast and colors your ideas even when something is not Catholic
     
  8. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

    256
    +75
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    It is written of Jesus:

    "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]

    that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]

    and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]

    born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],
    where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:

    "... lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]

    "… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]

    "... the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]

    "... For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]

    "… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]

    "… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]

    "… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]

    "The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]

    "… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]

    "… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]

    "... lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]

    "... this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]

    "… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]

    "Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?" [John 8:46]

    "... I have kept my Father's commandments ..." [John 15:10]

    "... I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]

    "... I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]

    "... I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]

    "... the obedience of one ..." [Romans 5:19]

    "... who knew no sin ..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

    "... without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]

    "... [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners ..." [Hebrews 7:26]

    "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]

    "... in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]

    "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God ..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]

    Nowhere is any of that which was cited said about Mary and she herself acknowledged her low estate [vs 47-48] before God. It is written of all others of mankind:

    Romans 3:23 KJB - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Psalms 14:3 KJB - They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Psalms 53:3 KJB - Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Romans 3:10 KJB - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    Romans 3:12 KJB - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Mary, herself along with the 'brothers of Jesus' (elder sons/daughters of Joseph, from a previous marriage (*scripture evidence upon request), who did not yet believe in him, 'For neither did his brethren believe in him.' - John 7:5) came to Him because they heard from others that Jesus was not in His right mind and was possessed of devils:

    Mark 3:21 KJB - And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

    Mark 3:30 KJB - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

    Mark 3:31 KJB - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

    While Mary was blessed of God and found favour (grace) in His eyes, she was not sinless, and she also made mistakes such as leaving the child Jesus behind in Jerusalem, she had lost sight of Him and assumed Him to be where He was not (Luke 2:41-52).

    And she, herself did not understand all that Jesus had said ('And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.' Luke 2:50) and she wonders at the shepherd's news (Luke 2:18-19) and also marvelled at the news of Simeon and Anna; 'his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him' - Luke 2:33).

    Anna the prophetess, "...spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem." - Luke 2:38 and this would include Mary who went up to Jerusalem to present the child Jesus, who was the Saviour that was looked for since the fall and in Genesis 3:15 to come from the promise of God (Matthew 1:21).

    If anything, Luke's Gospel reveals that Mary, though a follower of God, was not faultless nor sinless and most definitely needed a Saviour from her own sins.

    Another point, in that Mary did not ever-remain a virgin, for she also had to be purified after the birth of Jesus ('...when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished..." - Luke 2:22; Leviticus 12:2-6), and the marriage to Joseph eventually was consumated, which is the right of the married.

    See Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:7 and Joseph was to eventually 'perform the duty of the husband' (see Matthew 1:25).

    The marriage bed is not defiled by such, for it is in the will of God ('Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:...' - Hebrews 13:4).

    A question we could ask, “Should she be deprived of the joy of her husband Joseph whom she had been espoused to before she had ever known of that which was to come about?”

    Mary herself was born as every human is born, the lineage of Luke 3:22-38 and Matthew 1:1-16 reveals this. Thus she had the likeness of the fallen sinful flesh as all mankind have after the fall of Adam.

    Jesus was also made of a woman, made under the law, with our very nature, our flesh, the likeness of sinful fallen flesh ('son of David'; 'seed of Abraham', Hebrews 2:14; 1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 1:7, 'who was in all points tempted like as we' - Hebrews 4:15):

    Hebrews 2:16 KJB - For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    The question then is, what kind of nature do unfallen [ooops, I gave it away] Heavenly Angels have, as opposed to every child of fallen Adam, and since Jesus did not take on that nature of Heavenly angels, that only leaves the other.

    Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    If it were not so, Jesus could never have "condemned sin in the flesh", being His flesh that He took upon Himself.

    Romans 8:3 KJB - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [for "likeness" see Philippians 2:7; Romans 6:5]
     
  9. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    Still very logical. The Bible simply doesn't support "ever virgin." Why use that terminology instead of simply saying "never knew her"?
     
  10. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Because that is how King James guys put it, but not the originals necessarily. Just because something is english does not mean it is the correct interpretation
     
  11. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

    256
    +75
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Mary was "betrothed" to Joseph before she had ever heard any message from the Angel.

    For what purpose was she betrothed?

    Was it not to be married to Joseph?

    What purpose in the marriage then if not to have it consumated as is given to them by God from Creation?

    Was their marriage never to be consumated?

    Perhaps we could look some more at the scriptures:

    What has Paul's common sense to say about such:

    1 Corinthians 7:5 KJB - Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

    1 Corinthians 7:28 KJB - But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

    1 Corinthians 7:34 KJB - There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.

    As it is written:

    Ecclesiastes 3:5 KJB - “... a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;”

    They had both consented that Joseph would not lie with her while she was with child. Yet what does the above texts reveal? It is not a sin for Joseph and Mary (whom was betrothed to Joseph), being married to consumate their marriage.

    Ephesians 5:31 KJB - For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    Proverbs 5:18 KJB - Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

    Genesis 2:24 KJB - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Proverbs 18:22 KJB - [Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

    Exodus 21:10 KJB - If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. (though speaking of the rules of those who had already had multiple wives in those days, the same can still apply to those who have been widowed and marry another.)

    Moreover:

    Additionally we may see further by the same Scriptures, given by the Holy Spirit [2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21, etc], and by the mouth of the messenger Angel Gabriel, that Mary was indeed the "wife" of Joseph, and as such given to him of God for marriage [for every good gift, comes from God; James 1:17]:

    Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 1:24 KJB - Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

    Matthew 1:25 KJB - And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    When God, by the Angel, says "thy wife" [even as "his espoused wife", Luke 2:5; see also Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:27], God has indeed given her in marriage to Joseph to actually be his wife, in all that this entails, and yet they both abstained from 'knowing' one another "till" [context, "knew her not till she had" and "thy wife"] she had brought forth Jesus.

    The word "knew" is the Greek "ginōskō", and just as the Hebrew word for to "know" [Genesis 4:1,17,25, etc "yada`", see the LXX for comparison in the same texts, "egnw"] used in the context of marriage, means the closest intimacy in the bonds of love within the marriage covenant, and includes the sexual relationship [see Luke 1:34; Matthew 1:25].

    It is not degrading for Mary to have been with Joseph after the birth of Jesus, for this is the gift of God in marriage. It is for their pleasure and comfort, joy and delight in each other, to reveal their love to one another in the closest way possible that two people can know. It is also for their safe-keeping from wandering to another.

    God created sex within marriage to be a delight and joy, not something to be shunned, or avoided.

    Would it have been fair to Joseph who had agreed to remain with her and marry her to not be able to spend such time with his wife, Mary (she who had been betrothed to him)? Is God cruel in this way? No, God is love.

    What is the point of all of the above? To reveal Mary trusted in His salvation, to save her from her sins and faults and she clung to God.
     
  12. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Stop. I do not accept anything you say at all.
     
  13. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    You basically just said "don't trust the Bible." You implied we can't trust the interpretation
     
  14. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    That's not very fair. They are making good points with Scripture to back it up
     
  15. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

    256
    +75
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I am dealing with 'idea' not persons. I hate every false way and hate the doctrine and deeds of the Nicolaitans. I am perfectly allowed to hate Catholicism as it is a blasphemous system of faith and practice. I never said I hate catholics, who are simply persons. I was one and have a heart for them.
     
  16. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    Good points. I may not hate Catholicism but I don't get it and I attended Catholic school
     
  17. ralfyman

    ralfyman Member

    145
    +73
    United States
    Catholic
    Private
    It is explained in No. 490 onward of the Catechism.
     
  18. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,090
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    This belief is an existential "leap of faith" without any evidence to back it up. It is an example of "it is true because we believe it to be so." Francis Schaeffer, in his book "Escape from Reason" explains this type of faith very clearly.

    If a person used his reason, which bases its view on empirical evidence, then he would have to have a reasonable doubt about whether Mary was immaculately conceived or not because of the lack of evidence to support the belief. But because of the great veneration of Mary, certain religious groups cannot conceive that Mary was born due to her parents actually having sex. Their great desire to have Mary being the chaste virgin, cause these groups to depart from using their reason and common sense, and took the existential "leap of faith" to believe that she was immaculately conceived. I think that these people sincerely and strongly believe it, and I guess nothing will shake their belief.
     
  19. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

    +387
    Christian
    Single
    Doesn't sound like the Bible
     
  20. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

    256
    +75
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Mary is indeed, “blessed” (Luke 1:42,45,48), but so were many woman of scripture who believed and were obedient (Genesis 1:28, 5:2, 30:13; Judges 5:24; 1 Samuel 2:20, 25:32-33, see also the blessed “church in the wilderness”, the great Woman of God, Deuteronomy 28:3,4,5,6; Psalms 89:15, 106:3, 112:1, 119:1,2, 128:1; Proverbs 8:34, 31:28; Isaiah 32:30; Jeremiah 17:7; Malachi 3:12; Romans 4:7-8; Galatians 3:9, etc), for instance, see:

    Genesis 30:13 KJB - And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

    Judges 5:24 KJB - Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.

    1 Samuel 2:20 KJB - And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.

    1 Samuel 25:32 KJB - And David said to Abigail, Blessed be the LORD God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me:

    1 Samuel 25:33 KJB - And blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand.

    Proverbs 31:28 KJB - Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

    Song of Solomon 6:9 KJB - My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

    Likewise anyone obedient to God, and receptive to His grace:

    Psalms 1:1 KJB - Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    Psalms 32:1 KJB - A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

    Psalms 118:26 KJB - Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

    Psalms 128:1 KJB - A Song of degrees. Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.

    Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

    Jeremiah 17:7 KJB - Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

    Matthew 5:3 KJB - Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:4 KJB - Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

    Matthew 5:5 KJB - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

    Matthew 5:6 KJB - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    Matthew 5:7 KJB - Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Matthew 5:8 KJB - Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

    Matthew 5:9 KJB - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

    Matthew 5:10 KJB - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:11 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

    Matthew 11:6 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

    Matthew 13:16 KJB - But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

    Matthew 24:46 KJB - Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    Matthew 25:34 KJB - Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Luke 6:20 KJB - And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    Luke 6:21 KJB - Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

    Luke 6:22 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

    Luke 7:23 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

    John 20:29 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

    Revelation 22:7 KJB - Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

    So that none would mistake the blessing that Mary had, Jesus said:

    Luke 11:27 KJB - And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

    Luke 11:28 KJB - But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

    Luke 23:39 KJB - For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...