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Catholics, why is it necessary to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Ecclesiastian, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Amazing how they think that God's word is spelled "Catechism", rather than "Bible", and the ultimate definer of what is real as "tradition" rather than "Truth".
     
  2. Calvin_1985

    Calvin_1985 Active Member

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    It's simple...The sin nature is inherited by Adam.
     
  3. James Murphy

    James Murphy LCMS Lutheran

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    I see heresy of Nestorianism is alive and well on Christian Forums :rolleyes:
     
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  4. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    The Jews were a very prudish people, so much so that the language even lacked words for certain body parts and functions so they had to resort to euphemisms. One such is "He did not know her until she brought forth her first born son". Knowing her is a very clear reference to sexual intercourse but not necessarily conception. This being said, I strongly suspect that the story is heavily laden with symbolism.
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    "Jesus" is a given name while "Christ" (anointed one) is a title. Jesus never held that title in life so I am not convinced that it is appropriate to apply it retroactively.
     
  6. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

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    Peter called Him the Christ
     
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    But the fact that she had found favor with God means only that God picked her; it says nothing about being sinless. And as for the reference to being filled with grace (another way of saying having found favor), do you think of the gift of grace as something like filling your gas tank? --that if the needle is high enough on your gauge, that the person, any person, has therefore caught God's attention?

    I know that you do not, but this is the approach that is taken when it is argued that filled with grace means Mary deserved to be the mother of Jesus.
     
  8. ralfyman

    ralfyman Member

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    If you read it carefully, you will see the references to the Bible.

    Catholicism is based on tradition and scripture.
     
  9. ralfyman

    ralfyman Member

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    Catechism refers to exposition of doctrine, and that uses both tradition and scripture.

    I do not understand the hostility you express towards fellow Christians.
     
  10. Ecclesiastian

    Ecclesiastian New Member

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    To add, doesn't the New Testament advise Christians to be "full of grace"?
     
  11. Ecclesiastian

    Ecclesiastian New Member

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    Unfortunately you'll find hostility on both sides among laity.
     
  12. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    I suspect Heartened Heart chose not to look carefully and never will.

    One thing I never understood is why Catholicsm focuses so much on traditions that were created by men. Different Protestant churches have different traditions, even within denominations, and there are modern Protestant churches that do the opposite of what is traditional. Why do Cahtolics think they can't change?
     
  13. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Because what Catholics believe is that they're not traditions, small t (cultural traditions or innovations in practice).

    But Traditions, capital T.

    Meaning that they were passed on by Christ to the Apostles who passed them to their followers. And testified to in the writings of the Early Church Fathers.


    For what we believe on that:

    Scripture and Tradition
     
  14. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Oral preaching is what all churches do. It has nothing to do with Catholic traditions.
     
  15. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, He did.

    When He asked Simon, "Who do you say that I am?" the apostle answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

    Do you remember the rest of the story now?
     
  16. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

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    But should tradition be on the same level as Scripture? Revelation forbids adding to or removing from Scripture
     
  17. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    Actually Revelation only forbids adding to or removing from Revelation.
     
  18. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” 2 Thess. 2:15
     
  19. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    I understand not attributing any sins to Mary, since we don't know of any she committed but the idea of the Immaculate conception seems to lessen the impact of Christ's taking on our human nature and redeeming it. On the Roman Catholic view it seems Jesus and Mary didn't have normal human natures and so I must ask, what was redeemed by Christ during his life? A nature like my own? Like Adam's fallen nature? No, a nature distinct, different, utterly free of the influence of the original transgression.

    I'm open to being corrected on the specifics but if what I've said is true I think the Catholic position somewhat weakens Christ's salvation of us.
     
  20. doctorwho29

    doctorwho29 Well-Known Member

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    You make excellent points! To my understanding Catholic teachings really diminish the cross. If sacraments and whatnot save us, why did Jesus die?
     
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