Catholics CAN'T Answer This Question!!!

[Antig]

If you think so, you can surely point to it. Remember that Purgatory is a state in the afterlife to which SAVED people will be sent for awhile in order to suffer or be purged of the consequences of Mortal sins they've committed but been forgiven of or unforgiven Venial sins--which means that all of us will experience Purgatory unless we are among the damned who are headed to Hell. Souls in Purgatory can have their stay shortened by the prayers of the living, Masses, or Indulgences which draw from the "Treasury of Merit" in order to apply surplus goodness from the great saints to the Poor Souls in Purgatory.

If all that was verified by some Scripture and cited on this thread, I must have missed it. But if it was not verified by Scripture, there was, in fact, no "Scriptural evidence for purgatory...put down for all in this thread."

What you actually mean is that you read it but pushed it to one side due to your very own personal belief about purgatory. No problem with me. I believe in purgatory. That is all that matters.

 

[Albion]

No problem with me. I believe in purgatory. That is all that matters.

We've reached agreement.

 

[Major1]

Are you a Marine?

Arsenios

No sir. I was in the U.S. Army but that was back in the late 60's.

 

[Major1]

Do you love afflictions and sufferings and heartaches in your quest for God?

Arsenios

I do not understand your question. I did not have ANY afflictions or sufferings or heartaches when God found me. I was a young man of about 14 I think when an elderly man asked me 3 question which at that age I had not clue what the answers were.

1. Did God say it?
2. Can God lie?
3. Is hell real?

He then introduced me to the Lord Jesus Christ and I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and I have never looked back and never been afflicted in any way.

I am not one who believe that man searches for God. It is God who seeks out man.

 

[Major1]

We've reached agreement.

Yep, you can not help those who do not wanted to be helped.

 

[Major1]

If you think so, you can surely point to it. Remember that Purgatory is a state in the afterlife to which SAVED people will be sent for awhile in order to suffer or be purged of the consequences of Mortal sins they've committed but been forgiven of or unforgiven Venial sins--which means that all of us will experience Purgatory unless we are among the damned who are headed to Hell. Souls in Purgatory can have their stay shortened by the prayers of the living, Masses, or Indulgences which draw from the "Treasury of Merit" in order to apply surplus goodness from the great saints to the Poor Souls in Purgatory.

If all that was verified by some Scripture and cited on this thread, I must have missed it. But if it was not verified by Scripture, there was, in fact, no "Scriptural evidence for purgatory...put down for all in this thread."

You are correct my friend. There has not been ANY Scripture put down in this thread or any other thread to validate Purgatory simply because You and I know that there are NO Scriptures that do that.

 

[Major1]

Scriptural evidence for purgatory has been put down for all in this thread. I believe it. You don't. That's ok with me.

How very sad. My dear friend, you are welcome to believe as you wish but the real truth here is that there has not been ONE Single verse put down to validate Purgatory....NOT ONE!

There can never be one because there are NONE.

The real problem here with Purgatory stems from something else.
You see, Catholic theology does not accept the final and full sufficiency of Christ’s once-for-all atonement that YOUR 1st Pope taught in 1 Pet. 3:18.

The Catholic soteriological system is fraught with ideas of self-atonement-works that must be done to merit forgiveness for past sins. That is where the root grows from and it is a flaw in the foundation. When the foundation is flawed, the cracks wil get bigger and bigger hence PURGATORY.

Purgatory allows for those meritorious efforts (i.e. suffering) to atone for sin after death. That is works-man doing theology which the Bible condems.

Second, Catholic doctrine teaches an unbiblical idea of penalty and guilt. It holds that “absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused…he must ‘make satisfaction for’ or ‘expiate’ his sins.
This satisfaction is also called ‘penance.'”
Purgatory then according to the RCC's own teaching is the final act of penance that removes the penalty of sin hence the in-biblical theology of works = salvation.

But as YOU said......you believe it anyway.

1 Tim. 4:1 speaks clearly to this situation.......
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons".

 

[FireDragon76]

In the Catholic view, the church is right by definition. It can never be questioned or challenged by appealing to Scripture. I think that this is what troubles Protestants. It's what troubles me.

I don't think it is so straightforward. Catholics do emphasize that one should not agree with anything that isn't in accordance with ones well-formed conscience.

An example of conscientious objection would be as in the 80's film The Mission (great film BTW), the priests are excommunicated by the Church but they continue to believe that ministering to the Guarani people is the right thing to do, so they go with their conscience rather than the Church.

 

[Major1]

I don't think it is so straightforward. Catholics do emphasize that one should not agree with anything that isn't in accordance with ones well-formed conscience.

An example of conscientious objection would be as in the 80's film The Mission (great film BTW), the priests are excommunicated by the Church but they continue to believe that ministering to the Guarani people is the right thing to do, so they go with their conscience rather than the Church.

Maybe they just followed the directions given to them by the Holy Spirit instead of the church.

 

[Tree of Life]

I've experienced visions, prophesy, the spoken word, silent word, removal of the veil, I've had anxiety when I was doing something God didn't want me to do, etc...

This sounds to me more like paganism than Biblical Christianity. What makes you think that these means of Revelation are legitimate?

 

[Tree of Life]

I don't think it is so straightforward. Catholics do emphasize that one should not agree with anything that isn't in accordance with ones well-formed conscience.

An example of conscientious objection would be as in the 80's film The Mission (great film BTW), the priests are excommunicated by the Church but they continue to believe that ministering to the Guarani people is the right thing to do, so they go with their conscience rather than the Church.

So in the Catholic view, one can be excommunicated and yet still doing the right thing?

This doesn't sound like the Catholic view. Could you cite a Catholic authority who's saying something like this?

 

[Major1]

Thank-you, Major...

In your answer Christ is referring to Old Testament events, the Law and the Prophets...
But this commandment is to Christ's Apostles whom He had discipled, to in turn disciple all the Ethnoi, teaching them to carefully observe (eg exactly obey) ALL that He had commanded them...

Do you think that they did so?
And if yes, what results do we find?
And are they consistent?

Arsenios

That is correct my friend.

I think that you would agree with the Lord Jesus in Matthew 5:17 where He said ..........................
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus here defended His view of the O. T. because the religiouse leaders attacked His teachings.
He chose to say to them exactly what He knew would speak directly to their attacks.

Did they do that? It seems to me that they did. Jesus told the ELEVEN In Matthew 28 to "Go into the world preaching the gospel and baptizing and teaching".
Isn't that what we see in the world today????

The people that they converted from Jews to Christians were 1st called Christians in Antioch. Since then, the number of believers in Christ can not be counted. There is now about 40,000 Christian denomination all over the world. "NUMBERS" would tend to answer your question with a YES.
Christianity has become one of the world's most popular and dominant religions.

However..........Jesus also said that some would claim His name but deny Him by what they did.

Matthew 7:22 Jesus said that ......
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

Jesus and His apostles spoke of FALSE prophets, FALSE apostles, and FALSE brethren.
Both said that TWO opposing religions would emerge, both claiming to be Christian.
One, would be the actual church that Jesus founded and would be led by the Holy Spirit and would remain faithful to His words and HIs teachings. THAT church is CONSISTANT witht he teachings of the Apostles as it uses the Word of God as found in the Scriptures as it guide and authority.

The other, influenced by a different spirit would accept the name of Christ but would "twist-change His teachings to create a convincing counterfeit of the true Church of God.
This one would capture the minds and hearts of humanity by attaching the name of Christ to biblically insupportable religious customs, traditions and doctrines that Jesus and His apostles neither practiced nor approved.

Like Jesus, the apostles consistently taught obedience to God. Peter and the other apostles risked their lives to make it clear that “we ought to obey God rather than men”.

But that is just my opinion as I see it. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Major1]

This sounds to me more like paganism than Biblical Christianity. What makes you think that these means of Revelation are legitimate?

2 Corth 11:14......
"And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

 

[Yarddog]

This sounds to me more like paganism than Biblical Christianity. What makes you think that these means of Revelation are legitimate?

Paganism? Haven't you read scripture? There are many ways that God communicates with his children. Have you ever had any type of experience with the Holy Spirit?

I've had at least 3 miraculous healings, 2 medical proven. Each and every prophetic message occurred within a week and designed to build my faith in Jesus Christ. They were legitimate.

 

[Major1]

I've experienced visions, prophesy, the spoken word, silent word, removal of the veil, I've had anxiety when I was doing something God didn't want me to do, etc...

And that is exactly what happens when one rejects the Word of God as the Word of God.

All believers must be careful when it comes to visions and the interpretation of visions. We must keep in mind that the Bible is finished, and it tells us everything we need to know. The key truth is that if God were to give a vision, it would agree completely with what He has already revealed in His Word.

Visions should never be given equal or greater authority than the Word of God. God’s Word is our ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice. If you believe you have had a vision and feel that perhaps God gave it to you, prayerfully examine the Word of God and make sure your vision is in agreement with Scripture

Should Christians expect visions to be an ordinary occurrence? No.

 

[Major1]

Paganism? Haven't you read scripture? There are many ways that God communicates with his children. Have you ever had any type of experience with the Holy Spirit?

I've had at least 3 miraculous healings, 2 medical proven. Each and every prophetic message occurred within a week and designed to build my faith in Jesus Christ. They were legitimate.

Isn't every sickness we are healed of a miracle? Isn'r that the reason we pray to God???

Can't we all say that we have had a miracle healing in our lives and most more than once!
Of course God heals! God has always healed people.

But a prophetic experience MUST be able to be verified by Scripture my dear friend. If it is not it just becomes your word that something was given to you. That always winds up being a 25 pound fish that was caught 10 years ago when actually it was a gold fish picked up from the floor.

You see, it must be that what because if you claim God gave you a prophecy and it did not come to pass........Then God says that you are a false prophet and you must be stoned to death.

Think about that!

 

[Albion]

I've had at least 3 miraculous healings, 2 medical proven.

Two were "proven" by physicians to be miracles?? You can forgive us for doubting that.

 

[Major1]

Catholics believe what is written in scripture relating to purgatory. Non Catholic don't. It's as simple as that.

Funny! There is NO Purgatory in the Scriptures to be believed!

Tell you what.....you post one Bible Scripture from the canon of 66 books that says "PURGATORY" and I will buy you chocolate covered Crispy Crème donut!

 

[Albion]

I think one of our friends on this thread has already said that the word isn't there, but what's more important is that almost nothing which could relate to Purgatory is to be found in Scripture, either (to which the reply has also been given that it doesn't say there ISN'T a Purgatory, so we can go ahead and invent anything we want).

 

[Major1]

Two were "proven" by physicians to be miracles?? You can forgive us for doubting that.

I am with you!

Just to put a period on your sentence so to speak, according to investigative groups,
Benny Hinn, the darling of Faith Healers, has had ZERO verifiable healings of any kind in now 36 years and a $100 million a year "healing enterprise."

This record of ZERO healings is shared amongst investigative groups such as Inside Edition, Dateline NBC, 60 Minutes, HBO First Look, Trinity Foundation, FOX NEWS.
Benny Hinn: How many OFFICIAL healings has Benny Hinn had? | God in a Nutshell Project